Daisy37?

Anyone else?

Define "old timer." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I've been around since March 2001.

he he, maybe a little older than that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

SH,

How about Feb. 1999??? Is that old enough? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How are you doing these days and what brings you to these parts?

JL

oh my JL.. Nice to see you...

AFTER 7 MONTHS of living apart, and the divorce almost final, my H wants to come home!!! I'm confused!

The fog is just lifting for him and reality is hitting him on the head. How do you feel about it? Do you still love him enough? Are there kids involved.

I've been here for 2 years...long enough?

Just read the line about personality disorder, that's a tough one. If that is true, he may try to continue the relationship because the attachment benefits him. Namely, if you leave him, maybe he's not all that which would be a blow to his ego. Personality disorders change the rules in MHO.

Hi so hurt! What is going on with your H that brought this on? I went back and read some of your posts about how he actively chases women.

Has he demonstrated that he has changed? Has he demonstrated a new committment to your marriage? You have been through so much that I would hate to see you drawn back into the sewer just when you have pulled yourself out and cleaned up a bit. Has he changed?

no, I can't say he's demonstrated that he's changed.

I'm suppose to take it on "faith" that he's learned ... according to him.

We've been apart for some time now. I actually stopped my antidepressants several weeks ago, and have actually been feeling pretty good about things.

I think he's freaking out that he's actually loosing me. I think he's realizing that I was good for him. That maybe I'm not all that bad.

Since he's moved out he's on the verge of going bankrupt, is on final warning at work, he's started drinking again, started smoking again, he's no longer in touch wiht our ex day care person...

I don't see any thing good about taking him back. Other than the fact that he's teh father of the kids, and ODDLY I still have feelings for him. But these feelings are VERY illogical.

so hurt,

If nothing has changed, you can probably count on going through all of this again and again. I sure wouldn't let him back unless he had demonstrated some major changes. You stand to lose the most by backing away from the divorce, he stands to lose nothing, really.

I would suggest going through with the divorce and giving him time to DEMONSTRATE some real change. If he has really changed, then you can easily remarry. But, IMO, you have way too much to risk to just take him back on "faith." Putting faith in an untrustworthy person is a high risk venture for you and your child.

I agree with MelodyLane. He needs actions not words. Is he in C?

I remember the story now about the caretaker.

Has he done anything to prove that he has changed? If not, go with your gut and brain, not your feelings as he will hurt you again if he has done no work to repair what was done to you. Sounds like he is doing self destructive behavior.

so hurt,

Without good solid proof that he's made changes,, I would not alter your plans on divorcing. If he's serious about changing and you're willing to work with him---you can always construct a plan for reconciliation (remarriage), and see if he can stick with it. But this sounds like a last gasp reflex, and not a sincere attempt to make the marriage work.

Which is exactly what MelodyLane said... I'd make an excellent parrot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

thanks everyone.

I'm meeting with our former MC today (without him) to discuss this with her.

It's hard, I wanted SO BADLY for the marriage to work. SO BADLY. but so much time has passed.. and I'm NOT feeling very safe. I feel like he hasn't done much reflection and is still trying to blame his actions on me. ALL THE WHILE SAYING HE WANTS TO BE MARRIED.

I can't accept blame for his actions. I've told him that yes, maybe I didn't forgive him "as quickly" as he'd like... but that doesn't JUSTIFY some of things he's done. I pointed out last night that I NEVER turned to other people in our marriage, even though I felt empty too. His response was "people are different"... blah.

but then he tells me he's sorry, he loves me, "can I ever forgive" him... he "has a lot of love to give".... blah blah blah

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by so hurt:
<strong> I've told him that yes, maybe I didn't forgive him "as quickly" as he'd like... but that doesn't JUSTIFY some of things he's done. I pointed out last night that I NEVER turned to other people in our marriage, even though I felt empty too. His response was "people are different"... blah.

but then he tells me he's sorry, he loves me, "can I ever forgive" him... he "has a lot of love to give".... blah blah blah</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's nice. I think you should forgive him if he asks for it. However, that doesn't mean you should stay married to him. That should all be contingent on a long, demonstration of changed behavior.

Ok, I met with our prior marriage counselor today (alone) to get advice on the situation...

In a nutshell, she says I should not take my H back unless he agrees to get a full psychological evaluation to figure out why he's having trouble functioning in all areas of his life (marriage, job, finances, kids). She said he'd have to agree to counseling for whatever his problems are, AND he's have to operate as a "normal" person for a while before I should take him back.

Should be a fun conversation tonight.

That's terrific advice. Identify the problem, take the steps to solve it, and establish a consistent track record of new behavior...

You're right---it will be an interesting conversation! Good luck.

Ok, for anyone following this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> here's an update.

this is a PASTE from an email I sent my friend last night

>well I just got off the phone with H. here's a run down of the conversation.
>
>he asked how my appt went today. I told him it was good it helped me understand what I need. I said there are things I'd need him to do to even CONSIDER working on the marriage, and I don't know if he's wiling to do them. I said it's fine if he doesn't want to do them, but I could never feel good about our relationship or myself if he can't agree to do these things.
>
>I said it seems to me that he's made some really self destructive decisions over the last several months. And granted when people are unhappy they often make bad choices, but nothing like he's done. he's failing in all areas of his life. He's in big trouble at work, he can't pay his bills, our marriage is a mess, he forgot the kids the other day.... he needs to figure out why he does this to himself. I said the things that are happening now are all a direct result of self destructive choices... And these consequences weren't hard to predict. Its NOT like he's cursed or freak things have happen, he made these things happen with his own choices. I said I know he doesn't want his life to be this way and its got to be miserable (he was crying by now). he needs help to figure out how he could do this to himself (and his family). I said even if it isn't for the sake of the marriage, he needs to do it for himself. Because I know he isn't a *bad* person. in fact he ha! s a lot of good qualities. I reminded him that he had one other serious girlfriend before me, and I know he cheated on her too. I asked if he ever thought it was weird that the two people who he claims he really did care about, he destroyed those relationships? I told him he needs to get to a professional , and have them figure out why he does these things and help him teach him how NOT to do it anymore.
>
>I asked him if everything was going well in life would he still want to come back. he was crying and "I don't know" then "I think so" then "I don't know". I said, see that's what scares me, I'd like to think he cares for me and wants his marriage but we have NO WAY OF KNOWING with the way things are right now. I told him his sister even warned me about taking him back when things were down. I told him regardless of everything that's happened I still really have strong feelings for him, but I can't see how just taking him back without him looking at how he got to where he is. Then he said something like he'd want to come back if I've changed. I said what about you? he started joking and trying use humor here and said "why would I change everything is going great for me" I laughed but it really wasn't funny. it was so true and he knew it.
>
>I told him that a small part of me just wants to take him back, save my marriage, save my "family" unit. But I KNOW I can't do that. Not with the way things are. Not with out him learning about himself. Because it'll just happen again.
>
>I was really nice to him during this call. I never said he was bad or evil or anything like that, but I made it very clear that he's done things NORMAL PEOPLE DON'T DO.. and all he needs to do is look at where he's at now to figure that out. He needs to figure out why/how he could have done these things with the help of a professional.
>
>I asked when he went to a counselor last. He said three weeks ago. I asked what they said. He said "all that fluff". I said "what fluff?". he said "all the normal stuff". I didn't ask more.
>
>He was really sad by the end of this call. I didn't ask if he would get help or not. the call ended by him saying he needed to go to bed. He sounded VERY sad.
>
>

so hurt,

You don't want to have this end up as a rescue---that's for sure. It'll be interesting to see how he feels when he's had some time to think about it. One concern I'd have is that he sounds like he's suffering from depression, and if that's not effectively treated, he's not going to be likely to make good decisions. But you can't be responsible for this forever.

he's been depressed since he first has his ONS over two years ago. he's been on Zoloft, celexa and another drug I can't recall at this time.

For a year he went to weekly counseling. He SAID all the right things in counseling, but in real life he was "non compliant" according to his counselor. He couldn't implement the things he needed to do.

I feel bad for him. Really bad, because a lot of things have gone really bad for him. But I will not *rescue* him.

I would have *rescued* him, if he'd remained loyal, stayed in the marraige, but still made bad choices at work and financially... but since he has not shown loyalty... it's a different situation.