SO a few days ago, my WH tells me that the OW husband is planning on calling me to inform me of the affair!! I come home and see a phone number i dont know, so i hit redial ( had feeling it was OW husband, but not sure..it was indeed) man answers, i say i missed this call and wasnt sure what it was about, he said hwho is this, I said its michelle whose this, he says his name..and i was like, ohhh...OW name husband?? He says how do you know that I say, I am my husbands name wife!

He just found out a few days prior to the call, I have known since may. I inform him of when firts contact was made ( OW made fisrt contact by the way). We share some info, he apparently loves her and wants her abck also. Told me this was not first time she has contacted someone esle like she has my WH ( he said he would email me proof...not sure if he will or not). I did not giev any personal information about my children or my WH, basically siad i was hurt, told him my kids ages, never told their names!

My WH calls me a bit later...flat out accuses me.."WHAT DID YOU DO? WHAT DID YOU DO??" I get my back up of course being spoken to in an accusing manner like this! Apprently, OW H said I told him where my H works what shift he is on, all my kids names..all kinds of things that I ddi NOT share. Told his wife that i was going to court for him to get custody of their 3 kids...never said that, he asked if he could subpeopna me and I said I really ddint think so. No i feel like maybe he is trying to use my info to get revenge on her...but then maybe he is reacting irrationally as I have done many times ( if he wants her back as I want my H back..maybe he is using scare tactics to bering her back)
After speaking to my H he genuinely said he did belive me, that i diont not say a lot of the things I had apparently told her H..I told him he needs to figure out where he has gotten the info from, if it wasnt me, there are anly a few other ways to find out, either the OW gace the personal info, or he broke into an email account or possibly has a private investigator??
As for her having dont this mopre than once before, my H said he was aware of it, as she told him already, but how honest could she have been about it, so i am hoping to get some email proof from OW H...maybe a letter that is very similar to ones she has sent my H and then maybe he wont think she is all he needs!

I have decideI will not make any attempt at contacting OW H again....as I am not wanting to be used as a source for him bulding a case or whatever he may be doing!! I hope he genuinely wants her back and is just trying to scare her into coming back, by saying he will fight for custody of children!!

It apparently does not bother my H that she has done this before, i had hoped it might wake him up a little, but then, who knows what she actually told him about it!!

OK, sorry..long post..probaly made no sence either! And my typos are horrendouse, please forgive!!
H is coming to talk tonihgt, but he does not want to be with me he wants to take things slow with her...i feel very hurt as after 14 yrs he has chosen to give up on us and try with her, I feel like I deserve the chance at our marriage, he should be taking things slow with me not her!!!
AM i right in deciding to notmake first contact with OW H again?? Should I possible write her a letter telling her that i want to make things wirk with my H?? I cant believe that both of them are willing to walk away from 3 kids both have 3) and spouses!!! I have heard things like I am not in love with you but I love you
I love you like a sister
and just the other day he said, I have never felt a love like the one with her...well if only he could rememebr that he used to say those things to me...but he doesnt even seem to rememebr ever loving me at this stage of things!!
Sorry I was ending this wasnt I..ok..sorry again for long post!!
Michelle

Michelle,

Your H and his girlfriend are in a deceitful adulterous affair that has destroyed the lives of many people and you are worried about the "credibility" of one of their victims? huh? I am sorry, but I am confused. Isn't it your WS and his OW who are in the wrong here?

I think that, of course, your WS and OW are none too happy to be so exposed and should be expected to complain when forces are closing in on them. They want to do anything to stop their victims from exposing them and bringing them to account for their actions. You should not have expected otherwise. But the short term harm more than makes up for the LONG TERM GAIN. You should be doing everything in your power to EXPOSE this affair, NOT HELPING THEM HIDE IT.

Don't let their anger at being exposed divert you from the real issue here. The real issue is that they are having an adulterous affair. You are their victim. The OWH is their victim. He is not the liar here. Your H and his girlfriend are the liars so please don't assault her poor H. He is just trying to protect himself and his children.

Your H's self righteous indignation at the "lies" of the OWH is about as laughable as Ted Bundy becoming OUTRAGED because the prosecuting attorney used curse words.

And why you wouldn't want to help OWH build a case to protect himself from his scheming wife and your H is beyond me. Would it be ok for someone to throw you to the wolves just because you were trying to protect yourself legally? What do you expect him to do? HELP his wife destroy HIM and their children? C'mon!

Even so, I do think that you have satisfied your obligation to warn the OWH. You know that he knows. I would contact him and refer him to this site. The last thing you need is him lovebusting and pushing her into the arms of your husband. But, if he needs help, you should provide it. To do otherwise is beyond cruel and amounts to ENABLING the affair. You should help the good guys, not the bad guys. There are consequences to an affair and you should not be helping your WS and his girlfriend avoid them, let you just prolong the affair.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by michelleo_73:
<strong>Told his wife that i was going to court for him to get custody of their 3 kids...never said that, he asked if he could subpeopna me and I said I really ddint think so. No i feel like maybe he is trying to use my info to get revenge on her...but then maybe he is reacting irrationally as I have done many times ( if he wants her back as I want my H back..maybe he is using scare tactics to bering her back)
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Michelle, can you please explain to me how it is "irrational" to try and get full custody of your kids from a very destructive wife who is a serial adulterer and who is threatening to leave? Do you think its good for kids to be exposed to this?

I think it is the responsible thing to do and I can't imagine why you would call this "irrational" and not try to help him if you could. He and the children are the victims here. He is trying to protect his family from his wife and your husband.

Michelle. He is being a responsible father.

Don't help your WS and his OW destroy this man and his children.

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Hi Melody
I didnt intend to assault the OW husband at all, if thats how it came across Iam sorry!! Iam glad that we have talked and it is out in the open! I think that it is so very wrong what is happening here between our spouses!! All I was saying about not helpong him was that I didnt feel comfortable going to court for him! Yes she and my H are in the wrong big time, but I dont know him either, so what i meant is that I cant try and help him have custody just as I wouldnt help her!! I dont know anything about them..yes she is an adultering B****, but i know nothing about him, if i knew he was a good father it would be different, but not knowing him makes it hard for me to help someone i dont know win custody!! By all means he should have them if that is whats best!! Anyways babbling again. just saying I couldnt help anyone I dont know win custody of their children!
I agree that he and his children should not have to go through what my H and his W are putting them through!! What i was saying in my letter is that I hope he genuinely wants her back and wants to work things out with her and that he didnt just call me to use me but becuase he was sincerely concerned about what is going on!
I klnow I am wording this terribly, i know what I mean but I am not saying it properly!!
Also..should I sned her some kind of letter to tell her I want to work things out with my H or should I just let that idea roll away??
Michelle

Michelle, I don't think the letter would be helpful because I sort of doubt she gives a whit. It would just give her reason to mock you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but i know nothing about him, if i knew he was a good father it would be different, but not knowing him makes it hard for me to help someone i dont know win custody!! By all means he should have them if that is whats best!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Michelle, the judge will decide if he is a good enough father based on ALL THE FACTS. You are not expected to determine if he is a good father or not, that is the judge's domain. It will be the TRUTH that influences his decision, not you. Without you, the judge won't know the entire story and will have to make a decision based on HALF the facts. And perhaps without those facts, he would give custody to an unfit parent like their mother. It's in the best interest of his children that the judge have ALL THE FACTS.

<small>[ August 04, 2003, 10:13 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Yeah I somehow doubt she really gives a crap about anything I ouwld have to say to her anyways!! I already read some letters she sent my husband and it is quite obvious that she thinks the worst of me, I will not send her a letter!!
I suppose that is true I never though about it that way, the judge would be hearing people from both sides and with all information given would make the best choice for custody!! ( still hope it doesnt come to that though, am hoping he will convince her to come back home and it doesnt go to court!! Will just have to wait and see)
Thanks melody!!
Had a pretty good chat with H tonight, still very much in the fog!! It was a very calm chat, I stayed pretty level headed, managed not to be too weepy!! It still hurts to hear him say things like He has never felt a love like this before, when i remeber a time when he said that about his love for me...just wish he could remeber it too!!
Michelle

Michelle, it is all FOGTALK straight out of the WS playbook, hon. Just like you said, he used to say the same things to you! They all say the same things!

How long have you been doing Plan A? Have you been doing a good enough Plan A that you would be prepared to move into Plan B soon? Have you been reading about it?

I have been plan Aing for about 2 months now, I admit, i am not always very good about not LBing, i do try though!! The first contact made from her to my WH was on may 3rd so this is only been going on 3 months now, but it seems like forever!
It is hard to meet his ENs since he moved out a few days after it came into the open, he doesnt seem to want me to fulfil any needs, he seems to be happy having them fulfilled by her!
I have felt a few times I should go to plan B, but then decide against it, I am not ready for No contact from him, also more difficult as we have 3 children, 12yrs, 8 yrs and 11 mos.
He has said so many of the things I have read about too.. I love you but I'm not in love with you
i love you like a sister, these things hurt so much!! To give up 14 yrs to try and make a go of something so short, we have a history, they have nothing!! GRRR
Michelle

Michelle, here is a really good list that TooMuchCoffeeMan posted on another thread. I think there are several points on this list that would be very helpful in your situation. Especially the part about begging and pleading. Also, it seems that your spouse is pretty good in assigning guilt to you for things that you shouldn't feel guilty about. Such as screaming "what have you done" when you spoke to the OM. You did absolutely nothing wrong.

Often, the WS will try to blame the BS for normal behavior in an attempt to divert attention from their bad behavior or to justify their anger towards the BS. The WS will manufacture grievances against you in order to justify the anger. And the anger is important because it justifies the affair.

Anyway, take a look at this list:

I also suggest that you consider following Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

OW H called me again! I decided to continue being honest with my H so informed him of th call...not reaction I expected...he is turniong everything around on me trying to make me the bad guy in this!! My H was busy at work and said he would call me after, but after the way he was talking to me I told him maybe he had better not!!
So later i sent him a brief email stating that i have done nothing wrong in speaking with her H, and if i was subpeopnad to court for OW H custody case that whjat I say will have no bearing in the judges decision, I said all I can say is that i know my H and his W are ahving an affair, if I am asked anything about where the children beong, I cant not give any ideas, as I DO NOT know either of them!! If she loses cutody to her H ( and here in canada, the children generally stay with mum if not proved negligent) it will have nothing to do with me saying they are having an affair!!
My H then reploed my email stating that just because he and her have a very close frienddshipo and they share their feelings it is not an affair as they have not had sex!! This is the fisrt time he is denying it is an affair...whatever..it is SO MUCH an affair its not even funny, he snuck around behind my back and then left me to make anew life with her..what the hell would you call it besides an affair!! Anyways he said as long as i was in contact woth OW H that he felt there would be no contact between my H and me ( hold on I thot I was supposed to pull the NO CONTACT on him...uhoh) Anyways today we made all contact through email and when i dropped of my one child to go out with him, I stayed in car, did not make any attempt to see or speak to him and did the same when picked her up!!
He is trying to make everything in this my fault, trying to take the blame off of himself and trying to make me feel guilty!! In my email yesterday, actually here is my email i sent...

Hi B,
I just wanted to touch base! I know you are angry at me, thats fine, I have not done anything wrong, I told you i wouldnt be contacting him again, and I wont be and i havent!! I told you i would be only honest with yuo which is why I chose to call and let you know i had spoken to him again!! I nkow you dont think so, but i have done absolutely nothing wrong in speaking to him, I have only told the truth ( and left out much of what I know, and have no intentions on telling him certain things, just so you know!), I nkow nothing about him or her, but I kow that our spouses are having an affair, and all I have told him are truths! As for if it does go to court and I am subpeopnad (spelling) I will only tell what I know, his wife and my husband aere having an affair, if I am asked anything along the lines of where the children should be, I will only be hionest in that saying I know niothing abiout either one of them and I really have no idea about custody, that is the truth, I cant make a judgment on where thwe kids belong when I dont know either one of them! So if you think my intentions are only to be against you and her, you are wrong, it is an affiar, and he, as I have a right to know about it!!
I honestky thot you would appreciate my call this morning, I got a reaction nothing like I expected at all!! As for the threat, I did not appreciate that, "if she loses her kids, you don't know misery yet"!! I dont deserved to be threatened, it has nothing to do with me how their custody ends up, judges decide that based on all the facts, not just the fact that I know she and my husband are ahving an affair, belive me, if i go to court, my statement will not have much if anything to do wth the judges decsion ( and i do not want to go to court by the way)!! I am not sure what else to say to you right now, besides that even through all this **** going on, I cant stop loving you b, and i know right now you dony care, but those are my feelings!!!
I love you with all my heart and everything I am!!
M
xoxoxox

ANyways thats what i sent and then he sent back the bull about it not being an affair etc etc
yeah yeah, blah bloah blah, I always seem to babble lol
Michelle

Time to stop all the drama that you are participating in...

time to learn to babble back to his INSANE babble to the best of your ability..

time to STOP calling him and informing him of anything you say too anyone else...

time to get in control and remove yourself from his and her sick twisted attempt to bend reality...

You can and should do this....

Did anyone hear Dr. laura the other day.. she took a call from a woman whose husband is having minimally an emotional affair ...
the woman was saying how her husband was trying to make her believe that she is crazy for not expecting him to quit eating lunch with the OW every day...going out with her in evening for drinks...calling/emailing all the time...

Dr Laura said he is gaslighting you....
there is an old movie...(which I have never seen...called GasLight...in which the husband tries to convince the wife she is crazy...by constantly changing the height of the flame on a gaslight...and evey time she notes the flame is different he accuses her of being crazy...

Your husband is gaslighting you....
it is pure insanity to make any thing you do in relationship to interfering with his AFFAIR be your fault or your blame...

The more irrational someone acts out...the greater the lengths they will go to convince others they are right...

What you discuss with the OM is none of his business...

does he ask your permission to be with the OW?
does he tell you what they talk about??
does he show any concern for your feelings over the OW ?
does he worry about messing up this marriage...
ummmmm his actions don't appear to do those things...

Anyways he said as long as i was in contact woth OW H that he felt there would be no contact between my H and me

Did you fall over laughing at the insanity of that statement...
Do not rise to his baiting anymore...and even more importantly..DO NOT inform him any more of what and who you discuss...

Calling him and informing...plays right in to his poor vicitm status....
boo hoo..
Do the walls close in a little on their little fantasy ...

oh well THAT is reality....

WHAT DID YOU DO? WHAT DID YOU DO??"

babble back...well i got out of bed...got dressed..had coffeee..then the kids and I got ready for the day...went grocery shopping...looked at buying a new corvette... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
came home...thanks for asking what I did...I sure do miss sharing the things I do with my husband...
gotta go...click....

Each time you call/email to get this reaction...you give them plenty to divert their attention away from their own hurtful actions...

back way way off...
gather grace and serenity...

if he ask if you talked to ANYONE....
babble back...I don't remember...
Not real sure on that...can I get back to you on that....no but if I do talk to anyone...well there it is...

You want to get his attention...
change your approach...
he and she are thriving on this drama...
remove yourself....
no matter how hard it is...
focus on you and the children...

be pleasant...be happy to hear from him...
stop all relationship talk...
believe NOTHING he says...
show him someone in control and confident...

invite him to be with the children...lay low...

No more paper trail...how many seconds after that email do you think he was on the phone lamenting to the OW your actions....

go back and read the list melody posted...print it out and hang it on the bathroom mirror...

you are above their sick games....

i know it's hard..
i know it hurts...

remove yourself and let them drown themselves...

ARK

Michelle,
You shouldn't be telling him about any contact with the OWH at this point. Radical honesty is a principle to be practiced in RECOVERY. You AREN'T in recovery. It is not supposed to be used with someone who is using this information to ACTIVELY HARM YOU. Your H is using this information AGAINST you and the OWH! It shouldn't be used to mess up your chances to negotiate the end of the affair.

Telling him all this only creates problems and puts more distance between you, as you can see. Telling your H about this contact only enables the continuation of the affair by giving them fresh ammunition against you. It also ENDANGERS the OWH's position and make your H and his W band together EVEN MORE. Please keep any contact to yourself.

Thanks to both of you
Since i posted that info I have done really well at keeping to myself! I have not phoned him, have only emailed simple questions and answers to him, have not tried to ask him how he is in emails just straight to the point.."wjat time are you picking up kids? what shift are you on?" etc..nothign personal like "how are you? I miss you!" Also, when i dropped and ppicked up my daughter i stayed in car, did not make any attempt to see him!! And plan on continuting in that way!! Since he has kind of plan B ed me, what is my next step?? DO i just keep going as I am..not Lbing and just stay in my own plan A or do i make a plan B letter and give it to him or do i just go into plan B with no letter as he has said already NC????
Michelle

Michelle,

Just stick to a nice Plan A, just like you did today! You did really good! Just follow that list above, and don't tell him about any conversations with the OWH. Its real important to do this for awhile because you have to rebuild a good reputation with him. You are starting a program of attraction now. You have been in a program where you repelled him, now you are working on attracting him. You do this for awhile and THEN you go into Plan B if necessary.

He has cut off contact with you? Is he doing this to punish you?

Michelle, another thing I thought of. Please let him initiate ALL THE CONTACT. Let HIM contact you about picking up the kids, etc.

I'd meet her H in public place. Sit down and talk, get to know this man. He can't be worse than children having a slut for a mom!
Wouldn't take me five mins to abet him in turning her and you H over in court!
Who's on your side? certainly not your H or OW!
You and her H put your heads together and give the other two spouses a run for their money! When the heats on, the so lovey dovey A they're having might just start to hurt them instead of you and her H!
Maybe she doesn't care about her kids, but then just maybe she does and she would deserve lose them the way she is!
LouLou

Hi melody...thanks, glad to hear it sounds like I have done ok for a day or so with the way I am doing things!! You dont think I should email him at all when it comes to the kids being picked up etc?? What about my time though, I dont get any time to myself these days excapt wehn the kids visit their dad!! Dont get me wrong, when they are gione I wish they were here or I was with them all, but I do need a break sometimes you know?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He has cut off contact with you? Is he doing this to punish you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dont know why he is doing this...he said as long as I am having contqct with OW H he thot we should have none!! I feel like he is trying to bully me almost!! He is trying to make me feel like I am the one who has done the wrong here!! Which I havent..this I do know!!!

New branch, Hi, I really dont want any more to do with OW H than I need to!! I definatley dont want to meet him!! I know nothing about him for one,... he could be crazy..who knows!! I doibnt know if she cares about her kids or not, but I do know that neother her or my H are thinking about their kids right now!! And you are right, neither one of them is no my side..I am the evil one doing all bad here I guess!!

Michelle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by michelleo_73:
[QB] You dont think I should email him at all when it comes to the kids being picked up etc?? I dont know why he is doing this...he said as long as I am having contqct with OW H he thot we should have none!! I feel like he is trying to bully me almost!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, he is trying to bully you! Thats why you shouldn't tell him about any contact. He will just use it against you. In the meantime, you and the OWH can talk [secretly] and keep each other in the know.

Do you have to email him to get the kids? He doesn't know when he is supposed to get them? Will he contact you? Can you, instead of asking or pleading with him to get the kids, hire a sitter when you need to get away? That would leave the onus on HIM to contact you.

ok I agree...if he doesnt make the effort to get the kids and see them, it wont be my fault when hes missing them!! I will try to leave the ball in his court when planning for kids weekends with him!!

I guess the main reason I was being honest with him about talking to OW H was because thats how this whole crappy situaltion started...my H being secretivewwith me!! But I see that obviously my hinesty is not whay is needed right now!! I actually am not planning any further contact with OW H unless he calls me, I have nothing more I need to say to him, but i am hoping for an email from him about her past affairs.

Today has been even harder than other days as it is our 5 yr anniversay of marriage...trying not to think about it too much!!
Michelle

sorry..also just wondering...if i leave it up to him to contact me for weverything is this not slightly plan Bing?? Or not since when he does contact me, I am just to be nice???