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You bet, Pep, Fog.
I know I need to remove myself from the situation, I've tried. I could have not taken her call last night, I guess, but it was hard not to.
I imagine she's angry that I didn't cave in completely and say I'll dismiss the whole thing.
But she's gotten angry before, only to have it pass. She said last night that she could never hate me. In the absence of such hate / anger, what is there but the cold hard facts of reality - which is something I know she doesn't want to see.
She could solve so much of this by honestly working on herself.
It's hard to watch someone take the absolute hardest path possible - but I don't need to tell you that!
Anyhow, it was "nice" to see / hear that fog cleared last night, even if just for a little while. Today is kind of hard, though.
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How dare you rebuff her majesty by no longer wanting to be part of her royal harem, hmmmfff! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
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JR, Good to hear from you but sorry that your W is still in her angry foggy mode. Those are hard to deal with. But also because her actions are not sane yet I see something. Not trying to raise your hopes but an ill person is an ill person.....not a criminal. Still you must take precautions (protect yourself). If that includes the D, then so be it. It may take longer for her to realize the best love she is losing, but some need to do so. In those cases, stalling the D may be prolonging the pain. Isn't this confusing? Yep it sure is. That is why it is important to work on you and move forward. It sure takes many of us a looooong time to figure it out. Our giver is stubborn but finally we learn. I know I did but it seemed like it took forever. Still working on it so I know I am not out of the woods yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Hope to see you at the zoo. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> take care, L.
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JR -
I know it's hard what you're going through with your WW right now. Her asking for more time after all this time is manipulative. You know that, but you are also right in that what are a few more weeks in the scheme of this whole thing anyway.
I sent my WH the papers to sign last week that begin the dissolution of our marriage. I have not heard from him yet about whether he will sign them or not. I expect that he will because he knows that I need to move on and can't do this waiting game any longer with the way he's spending money on frivolous trips with the OW and who knows what else. I have to protect myself financially from his incurring more and more debt.
What a long strange trip it's been.
I'm hoping the best for you -- and that may be that your WW moves quickly and sets you free completely.
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TMCM, ha, I thought about that, too. Eerie, really, the whole "huummpph" thing is something she used to jokingly do in the past. O, I wish I could share your optimism. It's scary to hear her amazing recall - not of all my past wrongs - but of all my past "rights"! In her call, she mentioned a time, just before I left where I came into the bathroom with the cats, when she was taking a bath. And she was treating me so coldly and all I wanted to do was spend a little time with her. Honestly I can't even recall this event - but she did, and was lamenting it. She's SO set up for a life of "what if's". My Plan A was maybe a little too complete!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> UH, I know she's stalling - how hard can it be to return a simple acknowledgement? Let's say she's picked out a new reason to be mad at me now, and is going to use it to beat me with... why not move things forward, then? Gah, I know I shouldn't ask such logical questions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> So here's a new question I have... in reading Soooo many stories here, I notice often-times that a WS, in the death-throes of their A fantasy, cling to some extreme emotion. E.g. a fierce anger that sometimes evaporates in the face of reality (or impending finality). Examples: H4F, Mrs. Wld. - others?? Any WS's out there who were really angry or depressed or some other thing and then "hit the wall" and changed their attitudes in a big way? Not that I'm holding to that as an expectation - just curious. Another possibility is the constant contact with OM - however I seriously doubt that's continuing in the form is was months ago... from what I learned of him, he's not the type to stick around for her.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by J.R.: <strong>.....Any WS's out there who were really angry or depressed or some other thing and then "hit the wall" and changed their attitudes in a big way? Not that I'm holding to that as an expectation - just curious. Another possibility is the constant contact with OM - however I seriously doubt that's continuing in the form is was months ago... from what I learned of him, he's not the type to stick around for her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JR, Yep my WS. Hit the wall (moved out and went broke/sick and homeless went through 8 jobs in 1 year), bounced and and bounced, hit the wall again (landed in jail) and bounced and bounced (each bounce - false recovery times 2 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). Claimed to change his attitude each time. Only seeing it now (though I saw pieces of it before) 2 years later. Even my relatives can tell. So can the WS (he is still working on his H title, OW sent another e-mail to me and well he lost his turn past GO). Even though he went NC on her, when she contacts me, he goes backwards because I refuse to play that game. New rules, new game. Rule 1: No OPs allowed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> L.
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J.R. ...Hm... I've been trying 2 put my finger on something in your sitch's case for some time now. Not sure I've succeeded, but what I've been thinking is that your WW is in some sort of fence-sitting, plan B "stasis" of sorts. Look, most of us like being alone some of the time, maybe even for weeks or months. I know I can still enjoy the time I get 2 spend my evenings alone (or with the kids, if they're around and still up), even when I'm fiercely missing my W when she's gone on travel with this new job of hers. And she still says she likes 2 be alone (but lately has wanted desperately 2 come home when she's gone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). But between her As with RM, she very much liked 2 spend weeks or months away. In your case, maybe your plan B has enabled your WW 2 fence-sit in a way. To sit reasonably comfortably on a ledge - 2 hard 2 climb back 2 the top of the cliff, and not very attractive 2 jump in2 the bottomless pit below. There's a fridge and enough entertainment on the ledge 2 pacify her for now while she fears making ANY decision. I agree, it's time 2 give her incentive 2 climb or jump. (and don't worry, I'm not one of those like in that song that you've probably not heard, cheering a guy threatening 2 jump off a scyscraper with the chorus "Jump, f***er! JUMP!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Gad, though. I'd sure like 2 see your sitch 2rn around for the "better M", though! -2long
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2long... "Nothing happens, though I've been waiting forever. Have I been waiting forever to fall? Jump F*****, Jump" Hmmmmm... waiting forever to fall... yes, sounds like something W might be into! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I think you're absolutely, completely right about her, dude. I think the fog was fooling her into thinking that I'd always be there for her. And frankly, she read SAA a long time ago, so probably thought this was all constructed to "get her back". She forgot, however, that it was NOT about that. It was all about trying to hang on as long as I could. Now, today... Am I REALLY done?? Yes and no... Yes in that it would take something rather large in my mind to convince me that W is sincere in doing everything it would take to protect me. I feel like I can set the bar extremely high, because I HAVE done all that I could. She knows this too. And so that makes me very determined and satisfied in my path. Legal separation does not lead to true closure - this does, eventually. I'm okay with it as an outcome, because I know it was only after expending 2 of my "prime" years in the effort. Today was kind of a hard day, but not terrible, like some in the past. I'm okay, and I'm truly okay with any outcome. I'm determined to stay my course for now. I filled her / my IC in with lots of details, and I believe she visits her this Saturday. Then I see her on Tuesday. So it might prove informative. Just when you thought it was safe to go into the water.....
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<strong>
I think the fog was fooling her into thinking that I'd always be there for her. And frankly, she read SAA a long time ago, so probably thought this was all constructed to "get her back". She forgot, however, that it was NOT about that. It was all about trying to hang on as long as I could.
</strong>
.. and also to make sure that when you feel you have reached the end of the road, to be able to look in the mirror, be proud of yourself for what you tried and by how much you've grown, then be emotionally ready to let go, close that chapter and move on.
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I can see the 2x4's getting "primed" This might hurt...just a bit.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So what was I supposed to do? I say "I'm done" but it's so very hard to hear her in such pain. I mainly listened to her, [b]she begged me for some more time, basically, given that she's so incredibly swamped at work - which is not going so well for her right now.[/b] JR...here's what I don't get...read this paragraph again.... it's so very hard to hear her in such pain. but JR it is her pain..it is the path she has chosen...and continues to not grow or learn from it... what about your pain...who speaks too your pain? she begged me for some more time, basically, given that she's so incredibly swamped at work - she begged for more time.... Hey glimmer of hope...could be good thing...(holding my breath waiting to hear some deep epiphany....or even a smidgen of dang JR this is serious stuff...and I really need to evaluate where my decision and choices have gotten me... but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!! what she wants is more time...because of WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! work schmirk...no work is more important than peoples souls and the time and energy to offer healing...and compassion... what is she saying...work is soooo important...sooo demanding...I have NO time in my life to work on what's really important.... uuuuggghhhhhh <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> after all, what's another few weeks in my life well dammit JR they are important...and you are important...not in some feel good cosmic foo-foo way...but because you are worth it... and you deserve to be treated as THUS... I would procede now...nothing on paper that can't be changed... work!!!!!!!???????????? I'm puking on that word!! Let her go to work and be a dedicated, faithful, trustworthy, team player, decent kind of gal at work.....while total disrepect reigns her real life...no wonder she buries herself in work...what a facade!!!!...what irony????? what hypocrocy!!!!!!! Heresy even...!!!!!!!!! (Don't you love my dramatics??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> sorry sorry sorry..I'm putting the 2x4 down... JR you don't have to wait till October...her pain is hers... you deserve better respect in your universe.. work uuuuuggggghhhhhhhhhhhh ARK
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Ugh, I have opinions...but I'm worried I'm being judgmental...so I'm gonna keep em for now.
Hang in there JR...there is no doubt in my mind that you have a bright future ahead of you.
<small>[ August 22, 2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>
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Thanks all, today was even better than yesterday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Nick, I'm so not going back to the way things were in any way.
Ark, I know, I know, I know... And if it wasn't "work" I'm sure it would be something else. No, it's pretty clear.
H4F, I'd be curious what your opinions are. Is there something special about the 2 year mark? I dunno.
She no longer has a reason to run, no longer has a glorious battle. It will prove interesting.
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Agree with Ark, and H4F.
I think I agree with H4f, but I'll just have to think that unless she explains.
(Yes, I'm baiting you, and I admit it.)
J.R.,
Just put together a plan, and work it. Don't pay attention to what she does or says, because she is in the fog. ( work, aaaaaaaah.)
Just go where you want to go and if she is there when you get there, great, and if she is not, then you will finally be free.
SS
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J.R. Ah, work...! What a wonderful thing, work!? Why, "work" is what makes the world go round the sun, right? Work makes us worth whatever it is we're worth, right? All that "love" stuff, family, friends, commitments, integrity... ...they're all 2ndary 2 work, aren't they? Whatever happens, at least we have our work!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Those of you old enough: Remember Maynard G. Krebs and "work"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> -2long
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