Two and a half weeks ago my exH said he'd be willing to make 'baby steps' towards being with me more, and consider a reconciliation at some point. This is a huge step, as our divorce was final over a year ago. So far, I've talked to him more on the phone more lately regarding our kids, and house issues, but not much more. He does step in to the house when he gets the boys, but that's it so far. I'm still respecting his need to feel he's in charge of everything, and not me. Tomorrow he will be helping us with a home improvement, so he'll be here awhile. How can I make him feel less tense?

On the hideous side of my life, a few days ago the phone rang and it turned out to be a hang up call. This happens once in a while here. It happened the second time within a few minutes, and after a pause...exOm said hello to me, using my name. I haven't heard his voice in over a year, the last time he called a year ago I hung up on him after telling him to never call me again. I hung up the phone again the other day, as fast as I could. I didn't respond at all to him. I felt viscerally sick at hearing his voice. He represents the demise of my marriage, and my own sinking into a black abyss of evil. It didn't affect me beyond that initial moment of strong reaction, and I haven't given it much more thought. It was about a year to the day he'd last called, so who knows what he's thinking. I don't care an iota about this person, and if it happens again I will change my number as much as I don't want to go through the hassle. I still get furious at myself for hurting my family over this ridiculous man. My closest girlfriend believes that ExOm was thinking perhaps I'd cave in and talk, and that I needed him...or some fool thing. Do you agree? Even if my exH were remarried, I still wouldn't talk to exOM. That liason and he were a losing premise from the word 'go'. He and I destroyed my marriage and family, and I choose to never speak to him again. I never much believed in my own capability of pure, deep, awful evil until I betrayed my marriage vows.

Back to my family. JL has suggested a 'frontal assault' to my exH. I just am so afraid of overwhelming him. He was here the other day, and when he handed me something from his wallet it appeared that his hands were shaking. He's clearly nervous and upset when he's near me, overly anxious. I have noticed that he looks at me more, and maintains eye contact---so I guess that's a big step. If anyone has any suggestions about what I should do to help him, please do tell!

Thanks to all for your help and support,
H_P

<small>[ August 15, 2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

I have read your posts for a long time. I seriously thinks things are turning around for you concerning your husband. He is slowly but surely starting to move toward you. When he says goodbye to you the next time have you thought of just shaking his hand and holding it for a bit. I believe that the power of touch is very strong.
It sounds like he still truly loves you but is so afraid of believing in you again for fear he will be emotionally destroyed forever. Eye contact and touch will show him that your heart is true and he does not have to worry.

Concerning that slime bag Mr. OM. This would be my suggestion. Go to a store and buy a very large whistle. When he calls and says hello blow it as hard as you can and hang up. It will hurt his ears. Everytime he calls please do this. He will eventually get tired of this. There is no reason for you to change your number. He has manipulated your life for too long. I wish you luck.

Hi HP,
You should probably know that there are many people that read your posts and get strength from you. It is difficult to maintain a good attitude long term when you don't get much back for it. I am so glad you are finally starting to see someting in return.

I don't know if I can answer your question, but I would say continue as you have been doing. When something works, keep doing it. A positive, loving attitude does communicate something to him or he would not be responding to your efforts. I think you will do well without me coming and commenting, but wanted to give you a virtural pat on the back. Keep it up.

I continue to pray for you.

SS

Remember, the way to a mans heart is through his stomach? He's going to be doing or helping with a home improvement?
It's probably too late for my post but how about fixing his favorite meal or one of them? As a show of appreciation?
Find reasons to laugh together. And as BryanP said, touch!
Give him a cold glass of beer, iced tea, or anything to show you're thinking of his comfort also. Shouldn't be too hard as sounds like he's just waiting on some moves. Good luck. LouLou

H_P,

I recommended that one of your possible responses was the "frontal assault". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Bryan is right, men do respond to touch. Next, time you see his hand shaking, put your hand on his arm, and just say something simple but straightfoward: "Thank you for helping" or "thanks for helping" whatever, but keep you hands on him. You have NO idea the power contact has on men.

If the time is right hug him, but always make contact with him. You are right he needs to go at his pace, but YOU need to set trends. You must understand how much he fears your rejection, so I doubt he will start anything at all, unless you have indicated that you want it.

So if you have hope of him ever touching you, you need to start touching him. He may even recoil at first, just smile, and do it again the next opportunity. The recoil will be natural, and you laying hands on him will calm him. It is how we train animals you know.

I am being serious here. Think about it horses, dogs, whatever, the goal is to touch them and calm them, and then you can train them. Now before you or someone else things this is demeaning to your H. You must remember that eventually the animals train US as well. We learn to respond to them because it is a mutual process, and gradually we learn how to understand their form of communications.

Your H is NOT a dog, or a horse as you well know, but he is a sentinet (sp) being, and this seems to work for most such beings on this planet.

H_P you are doing well, it is clear the love for you is there deep down, but there is a lot of scar tissue to break up and loosen before you can get to it, and sometimes to break up scar tissue so firm and direct pressure is required. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You keep it up. Oh by the way, good work with OM.
What a loser.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BryanP:

"Concerning that slime bag Mr. OM. This would be my suggestion. Go to a store and buy a very large whistle. When he calls and says hello blow it as hard as you can and hang up. It will hurt his ears. Everytime he calls please do this."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How wicked, how evil and I love it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

H_P if you do decide to take BryanP's deliciously wicked idea, be careful not to over react or you may end up hurting the wrong people. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Dear H_P

What a horrible experience for you, but I too like Bryan's whistle idea!!! Let's face it the contact is so minimal and intermittent, that you really shouldn't have to change your phone number.

I also like JL's idea about the physical thing and the idea of the nice cooked meal. I would also add that some verbal reassurances, such as "Thanks so much for your help and time. I know how hard this is for you, so I truly appreciate you helping out, it means a lot". Or "It's great the help you are giving me, it's lovely to have you around and I appreciate it isn't always easy at times"

You get my gist I'm sure. I feel so happy for you that things are moving, albeit slowly. It would be wonderful if you were to become another MB success story!

Wishing you well from very very hot London (yesterday was the highest recorded temperature of all time!).

Lisa

H_P-

Sounds like you're making steady progress so my humble suggestion would be to keep on with what you've been doing. Also, I think you're very wise to recognize that you shouldn't be too over bearing when dealing with him.

While I like the other ideas about a nice meal and/or some sort of physical contact, I'd be careful with it. IMO you should continue to let the recovery, such as it is, progress at his pace rather than yours. I can guarantee that he has this voice inside that's telling him you're only concerned with your happiness so show him that's not the case. He's looking for any sign of a lack of committment/honesty on your part so don't let impatience muddy the waters! Good luck to you H_P, your story is truly inspiring regardless of how it turns out.

<small>[ August 11, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: litchfield ]</small>

Thanks for your replies. The support is so meaningful to me!

There was more togetherness this week, so to speak, let me explain what it was about.

First of all, one of our children is having a health issue. This has forced exH and I to talk more, and consider things. I believe the illness has an emotional cause, and so does the physician. On Sunday evening exH and I spoke at length, and I admit I was a bit overly emotional due to son's condition. THe conversation (on phone) went on a long time, but the bottom line is he said again that he's just now considering a reconciliation, and he never did before. He also said that he gets the feeling I'm expecting it 'tomorrow', but it just won't be that way. He said if I push him too hard, then forget it, so to speak. We talked at length after this, and I told him I understood his feelings and that I was sorry for being pushy. I also said I was very upset over our son's illness, and that made me more emotional.

I did say to him that I felt like just showing up at his apartment, and 'hugging' him, but that I didn't do it out of respect for his feelings. He said that if I did that it would only make it worse for him. He told me again not to push.

The last two evenings following this 'conversation' he has come here to help with a huge home improvement project. I couldn't have done it without him. My extended family is unavailable to help in this way as they live far off. My girlfriends aren't strong enough. The first evening I asked him if he wanted to eat here. At first he declined, but then he did sit with sons and eat. I explained that DD and I had eaten earlier, as I knew that this whole group thing would be too much. I kept busy with the home project and was not intrusive at all. This is the first time he's eaten here since we split up almost three years ago! He came and helped MUCH yesterday, and ate again with us, although we all sat informally this time on the furniture in our den while watching DS's favorite show together. (the ill son) He seemed much more relaxed yesterday, and he helped with an extra project too when he heard something was broken. The heartbreaking part was that I sensed how hard it was for him to enter the bedroom he and I once shared, but he did so. He helped me with what had to be done in there. He hasn't set foot in there for years. ExH isn't much of a drinker, but I did offer him one both nights. He had none the first, and two on the second night. That showed me he wasn't as on guard the second night.

I didn't hug him, or anything like that. I did touch his hand and thank him at the end, and I touched his shoulder once, clumsily. You just have to know the kind of person he is, and how he was raised to know that he wouldn't like this yet. I'm so afraid of scaring him off.

Last night he was here longer than the night before, and when he left he said he had job stuff to do at home..almost like excusing himself for leaving. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He does look at me more, and I'm sure I'm sensing a bit more love from him now. He offered to help me with a computer problem I'm having, instead of me having to buy the thing I need.

This is all so exciting and wonderful to me, but I'm guarding myself tremendously. I did mention to him the other night on the phone some of the things I wanted our family to do in the future, together, and he didn't get upset. He seemed to want to hear it. This particular thing was something he always wanted to do, but we could never do it before.

He did mention anger again to me, and how much he had in him for me. I told him I accepted that, and he could be angry at me forever in part of his heart and that I could live with that and that I understood. Was that dumb of me?

Bryan,
Thanks for your support and suggestion. I know that touch is powerful, and I will hold his hand longer next time. It's just hard, as he's so withdrawn from me and has always been a stoic person this way.

The whistle is a good idea, but thus far no more hang-ups. We had a run of them last spring. It makes me angry, but I realize that this is nothing new for exOM. He was always into mind games. I'm sure he likes that he can feel some power.

StillSeeking,
Thanks for your help too. It hasn't been that bad getting nothing in return, as I feel I'm on the path that God would have me on. There have been rough moments and hours, but I feel that in the end it will be worth it and our marriage will be stronger than ever. ExH doesn't see this, but in time he hopefully will!

NewBranch/LouLou,
Thanks for your suggestion too. I did make sure and have those homemade meals you mentioned, although it wasn't his favorite due to practical considerations and the project here. He did seem to enjoy both of them, however.

You're right, he's waiting for some moves. I just have to be very careful and not scare him, or make him feel worse.

JL,

I fear I didn't touch him enough the past few days. I am SO AFRAID of upsetting him or scaring him away. I did thank him profusely for his help, and I did touch him a few times. We were working together on this project so it involved a lot of teamwork between him and me.

I liked your analogy to animal training. You are so right. The initial time of being around him after so long probably 'scared' me some too, and again I'm so afraid of scaring him off. I'm a much more touchy person than he is, as is my family. I can't explain why I'm so afraid to just touch him, and hold on as you suggested. I know why, it's fear of messing it up big time.

Thanks for your advice and support, JL. I appreciate your time!

Coffeeman,
Thanks for your thoughts, too! I was worried about blowing the whistle on the wrong person. We'll see!

Lisa,
Thanks for replying. I always adore hearing from you over there in lovely London.

I took your suggestions, indeed. Nice meal, compliments, he did seem to appreciate it. He's very guarded with his expression of feelings to everyone, so I don't expect some magical words thrown back at me. I don't need them.

Litchfield,

I guess you can see by my writing today that I am not as 'touchy' with EX as others have suggested. I'm kind of more doing what you've said, and letting it be at his pace.

You mentioned that perhaps he's worried I'm only concerned with my happiness. I've told him I'm concerned about his happiness, and I've asked him point blank (during the other night's emotional call) if he's happy living alone. He paused and only said he was 'adaptable'. I then asked him to look down the road ten years, and think about life if the path goes one way, or the other..and think of the kids, too. He really didn't answer. I'm sure he knows what's the better way to go, considering we've been friends for thirty years now.

He did tell me, as you said, that I needed to ease up or I'd mess it up. (That was before he came here to help for two days)

Thanks again for your help, everyone. I'll just carry on this way, at a very even, slow pace.

It's great to see some progress, but I'm very guarded and not wanting to mess it up.

H_P

<small>[ August 13, 2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

H_P-

Can I come to the wedding? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You're doing great! U am SO happy for you. Baby steps.

H_P,

I think you are doing well. He is admitting that he has anger which means he still has pain, fear, etc, that drives anger. Go slow, and I think you will do well. He IS thinking about reconcilliation (sp) that is very good. Gradually, as this thing moves on, he will talk to you and when he does, ask him about the pain and the fear. I would bet as he talks about it or admits it, his anger will gradually dissiapate.

Just remember Weisman's statement: 'The opposite of love is NOT hate, but indifference.'

Your

exH is NOT indifferent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lisa:

I think you will become an MB success story. In some ways you already are. You just haven't realized it yet. You have handled your situation as well as you could and you gave it every chance to succeed once you got on track. That is really all this site is about, giving marriages every chance to succeed.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Remain open to him at his pace .... this is going to be slow, but authentic movement on his part.

I confess ... I really LIKE your H! He sounds like a hellof'a guy. Worth your effort!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks Kily, JL, and Pepper for the encouragement.

I'll "keep on keepin' on" at his pace.

Kily,
I hope you're right and that a remarriage is in the future.

JL,
I will ask him about the pain and fear as time goes on. He told me once he's afraid it won't work==a remarriage. Isn't that a 'normal' fear, in his position?

You're right, Pepper. He is a wonderful man and he is definitely worth the effort and then some.

I still pray that it's not too late, and as he now says he's "considering" reconciliation. I will remain patient for as long as it takes!

Thanks again everyone,
H_P

H_P

Just wanted to pop by and let you know I am thinking of you. You are doing really really well, and baby steps are huge giant steps if you think where you have come from when you first came here. You had so much pain and confusion about how on earth you had got to where you had, and now, your H is talking about possible reconcilliation!!!! Isn't that fantastic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Of course he would be scared to get re-married - wouldn't you be? I can't imagine marrying again at the moment - but then it is all pretty raw still right now for me. The things you have learnt here about how to protect and care for your M he has still to find out about. If and when the time comes you can deal with it then. But for now, enjoy the fact that he is coming into the home, he is talking to you and beginning to open up. Without wanting to sound harsh (and you know it isn't meant in that way), we can never under-estimate or understand the pain we caused by our behaviour. Now, let me see if I can find a phrase to help out - time and patience dear H_P (JL, I just had to, had to <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Without wanting to thread-jack, I just wanted to say thanks to JL. It is something that SS always tells me about how others view me and I view myself. I still feel on one hand that I failed, but that on the other hand, I couldn't succeed by myself! It truly takes two to make or break a M. Thank you for your support and vote of confidence. It really helps right now.

Take care H_P and keep us posted.

Lisa

<small>[ August 16, 2003, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

H_P,

Read your post and I am so happy for you. I know how hard it is to keep your cool but I think he will really respect and appreciate you giving him time. I just wanted to offer my encouragement with the others. Sounds like everything is going as well as possible. Hope DS is doing well. You have been through so much. Pat yourself on the back for maintaining dignity and grace.

Take care

Sharon

Thanks for your replies, Lisa and Sharon!

It's always great to hear from both of you.

You're right,Lisa, it's natural for him to be nervous/scared about remarrying me.

Sharon, how are you doing? You have done so well, and adjusted so well to your new life. Wow!

Progress is very slow for me, and it certainly isn't due to many moves on his part===but that's fine. At least it's progress for the better, however slow it might be. I wish that the man 'needed' me more, but I realize that his needs for me were thwarted by my actions long ago, and it will take time for 'need' for me to resurface.

Sundays are always the worse for me since divorcing, so perhaps that's why at this moment I'm feeling a bit low about the slow progress. On top of that, my sons are with him and I still haven't adjusted to that loss almost every weekend.

Take care and thanks again for your support and care,
H_P

H_P
I have been following your threads, and I do not want to hijack. If this is inappropriate, or if you would rather reply on my thread, please let me know.
I saw on your recent post to goodguy that in your A the OM lived far away. You stated that </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the distance fueled the fire of the fantsy!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My WW's OM lives 500 miles away, and they were only able to see each other once or twice a month. After his W learned of the A, OM abruptly broke it off and there has been no physical contact for over four months. Over a month ago WW contacted OM. They have been in phone contact since then and OM is coming to spend next weekend with WW (she moved out of house during A). WW at one time told older D that speaking to OM on a daily basis, but being with him only on occasion, made the A "too difficult". Yet the A is starting up again. Do you think that being unable to have physical contact more often prolongs the A?

Thanks, 23down. I posted you a reply on a 'new' thread.

H_P

H_P

I know what you mean about difficult times/days. Today I had lunch with YSD - she is 14 going on 43 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> She told me that she and ESD had been to visit Dad and Shiney Head in their new place on Friday - it hurts, not because he is with her, but because I don't want to be replaced and loose them. Not much chance I don't think, but it does worry me that we are not blood. I understand how sad it must make you feel that your "family" weekends are still separate ones. I hope for you that in the future this will not be the case.

Keep focussing on the things that you have learnt and done so well. Remember to keep improving you too - what have you done for yourself recently? If it takes several more years, so what???? You are making ground and when you first came here you had little hope.

Keep your chin up and wishing you well from London.

Lisa

H_P,

Hi again, I am doing well. Thanks for asking. My kids just returned from their dads, a 2 week visit. OW wasn't there but I guess it was apparent they are living together. I don't know why, but that bothers me. I guess something inside of me wanted it not to work out.

I guess I am going to have to get some counseling for my S he has been having some problems. The girls were concerned about some of his behaviors on the trip and he has seemed to be having more trouble the last few months. I think we will go as a family so as not to single him out. But he is having a hard time.

As I say I am doing fine, great even. I start school on the 20th. I am so excited. I am still dating my boyfriend and we are quite in love and pretty serious. He is a wonderful man. We are very happy.

I am so happy for you. As for your man needing you. Maybe he "needs" you in different ways than you think he does. Think about the things that seem to mean alot to him. The things that showed you needed him and he needed you. They might be very different things. Don't assume that just because he doesn't act in the way you would act if you needed someone that he doesn't need you. This is kind of hard to put to words, do you get what I am talking about?

I know that your progress seems slow but take heart, progress is progress. I agree with Lisa, you had very little hope when you came here. I can also understand your Ex wanting to test the waters before jumping in. Sounds like he is cautious anyway, try to think how cautious you would be if the situation were reversed.

This must be a cosmic downer Sunday. I am kind of down today too. Thinking of things that I haven't thought of for quite awhile and although I don't want my H back I still wonder about the why's and wonder sometimes what I did wrong or if anything was wrong with me. Especially now with my boyfriend, if I did something wrong or pushed my H away I don't want to make that mistake again with him.

Well gee, I didn't mean to get into kind of a vent on your thread. I guess I just needed someone to talk to tonight. Thanks.

BTW, about the OM phone calls. I think you are doing just the right thing. HANG UP. Anything more is too much. He doesn't deserve any more thought or consideration.

H_P thanks for being a friend, you have helped me through a lot. Be strengthened in what you have accomplished. I admire your honesty and perserverance to make your mistakes right again. Nothing can take that away from you.

Thanks again and take care.

Sharon