Wife called me and asked some mundane quesion about the dog. Then asked how do I know so much about her phone bill and why do I keep checking. I didn't want to reveal my internet capabilities but I feel sure she may have asked the OM how would I know. I bluffed and told her that everytime she deletes a call I can only assume she has called him. She again said I throw my bill out so how do you know. This makes me think she may have asked the OM how I am finding out and he would be smart enough to point her in the right direction. Even if I lose my source I will have made my point and she'll be exposed with undeniable proof.

You'll be proud of me, because I also told her I'm tired of playing the fool and that is was going to get a lot worse. She told me you're not playing the fool and let it get worse. She is rightfully very nervous. I suppose under policy of total honesty I should tell her I can access her bill. More LB's though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Walkingoneggs:

"You'll be proud of me, because I also told her I'm tired of playing the fool and that is was going to get a lot worse. She told me you're not playing the fool and let it get worse. She is rightfully very nervous. I suppose under policy of total honesty I should tell her I can access her bill. More LB's though."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She can't demand honesty from you if she is unwilling to reciprocate. Her 'let it get worse' statement still shows she's got that defiant 'chip on her shoulder' attitude. Sorry but one phone call conversation does not make it a major development. Your 'actions' and not your words will speak louder to her.

TMCM, thanks. You're right my actions are what will matter. OK I won't give up the source of my information as it will be used as a major weapon in her counter attack. Why give it to her. When I was caught gambling she opened all my mail for the next 5 years or so. I was in no position to complain even though I had that "chip" and felt violated. So in some way I can put myself in her shoes.

While contrary to all the advice here, I'm not determined to end the contact only make the A too much work to continue. So by letting the OM know that I know what is going on I think he will look at her like she's way more trouble than she's worth. The exchanges about letting the LB disolve so the BS feels justified in ending the M is very, very scary and motivating. To quote Neil Young, "It's better to burn out than to rust". If I'm going to lose I should at least go down fighting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by walkingoneggs:
<strong>

You'll be proud of me, because I also told her I'm tired of playing the fool and that is was going to get a lot worse. She told me you're not playing the fool and let it get worse. She is rightfully very nervous. I suppose under policy of total honesty I should tell her I can access her bill. More LB's though.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When she asks 'how do you know,' come right back with 'YOU ARE SAYING IT IS NOT TRUE???' Put her right on the defense. Tell her you happen to KNOW its true and REFUSE to tell her your source. Tell her you know that they talk XXX times a week.

ALSO, you do not practice radical honesty until you are in RECOVERY and the affair has ended. You do not give up your means of protection, and means of ending her affair, by giving up your source. Radical honesty is something to be used mutually. You don't disarm until the enemy has stopped destroying you. You disarm when it is SAFE to disarm.

<small>[ August 13, 2003, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by walkingoneggs:
<strong>So by letting the OM know that I know what is going on I think he will look at her like she's way more trouble than she's worth. .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are exactly right about that. That is why I REALLY think you should use this phrase:

"what are your intentions with my wife?"

Harley told one of our members to say this to the OM and it REALLY shook him up!

<small>[ August 13, 2003, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Melody, thanks for the advice. I won't disarm until the fight is over and at that time I can lovingly explain my source. I really hope that day comes. The Harley line is very impressive and seems to suit my situation extremely well. I haven't hurt anybody intentionally but it makes a strong point. By hurting people I mean all involved not just the OM's GF but him and my wife as well. It's not about revenge. Anyway I'm leaving now and won't check back until the morning. Thanks for spending some of your afternoon on my situation.

Ready for some more "voice of experience" advice? The only time I spoke to the OM my first question was "What are your intentions with my wife?". His reply was that my WW had initiated the A, that she was the one who wanted to keep it going, and that as long as this was the case he would continue with it. He even said that if WW wanted the A to be over she could end it with one phone call to him. When I told WW what OM had said (thinking she might see how little she meant to him) WW said that this was probably true but that she had no intention of making that phone call. The A did not end until OMW found out (see my thread for details), and then it was over immediately. Be careful that when you ask a question you are prepared for any answer.
____________
BS-49,WW-45
D-day 2/16/02
A over, Plan A in progress, Still hoping

23Down, the patterns are amazing aren't they. I have no doubt in my mind that W initiated this A.
This guy wouldn't know what an EA is. When I approach him I am not going to mention the ONS. I don't need him to tell me my W threw herself at him. Sadly I already know that. I am just going to ask him how his girlfriend would feel if she saw my wife's phone bill. I may even print a copy of the bill and hand it to him with his telephone number highlighted. I will then threaten him with; if he should let me W know that I gave him this phone bill my marriage would be hurt very bad and I would then show the telephone bill to his GF. I think we both know it's not about revenge but simply ending it so the marriage can have a chance. And I am starting to see that if I don't do something the Love Bank will go broke. How did your case finally end and how is recovery if you consider yourself there. I always thought I was in recovery which I suppose is BS Fog.

His GF should know anyway. I don't think that should be used as a bargaining chip. Give her the copy of the bill directly and let her do some of the footwork.
Granted, since she's a GF, she may just walk, but that would spur something, wouldn't it?
She shouldn't be kept in the dark about this.

High Road, I'm not ready to consider bringing the GF into this yet. The threat of that will be enough for the OM. But for my W, I'm sure she will need to get hit with a bus and exposing it to OM's GF will have no effect on W. She will just be more determined to go underground but OM will like run from this trouble. W and I are 42 & 41, OM is 31, GF is 26. Who is kidding who. This is really just a very, very hurtful fantasy on W's part. I understand finally that she is addicted but the guy is not. I am considering highlighting the phone bill with his number 34 times and also speculating as to which incoming calls are from him and highlighting them as well.
Then put the phone bill down between them and say "you both should be embarrassed" and see where it goes from there. I have had no problem making this guy nervous in the past. I actually think he is uncomfortable with my W's pursuit. He even told my W that his GF had complained about W wifes interest in him. W tells me these ridiculous things, so it gives some insight as to where her head is.

Well, I believe if you look at my latest post on my thread you'll have a pretty good idea of how things are going. Absolutely to hell. The roller-coaster ride of the BS can be the worst thing you will ever go through. I love my wife still. I want her to come home. And I would give anything for the ride to be over.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by walkingoneggs:
<strong> I am considering highlighting the phone bill with his number 34 times and also speculating as to which incoming calls are from him and highlighting them as well.
.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOE, you might be able to find out who the incoming #s belong to either from doing a reverse look up or calling them yourself from an unidentified #. Do a reverse look up here:http://www.anywho.com/rl.html

Sorry, but that will not work. There is no way of finding out what number incoming calls are from, as the incoming numbers do not show on the statement. Even someone at the cell company cannot pull up the incoming numbers. Trying to figure out which calls are from OM will be pure speculation, though long incoming calls (the statement shows length of calls) that do not come from you may well be coming from him.
And I must say again that if anyone sees a statement, or a copy of a statement, be prepared to loose this valuable info in the future.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 23down:
<strong>Sorry, but that will not work. There is no way of finding out what number incoming calls are from, as the incoming numbers do not show on the statement. .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">hmmm, I didn't realize this. I thought the incoming # was shown on all bills. I will have to look closer at my next cell phone bill.

23Down is right that the incoming number doesn't show up. But you can definitely see patterns ie. every Monday just before noon etc. Also a 1 minute outgoing call to OM followed by a 25 minute incoming call is fairly easy to indentify.
My problem is W doesn't deny it only justifies it with it's harmless chit-chat. If so "why does it harm me so much". Finally I asked if it's not important why can't she stop. And finally when it rings in front of me she'll get him off the phone quickly and then squeeze my hand tightly. This being the only affection I ever see that you could call spontanteous (HaHa). Unbelievalbe what it looks like when you're not wearing the special glasses that WS's have.