Thank you Lady in Red,I have been better.

Thank you Quipper for your posting.

Ok, For those of you following a long I have been doing a good 180's and it is working. Tonite I will touch up my plan B letter and have it on hand. Right now I feel I need to be doing these 180's it is getting under his skin I can tell.

The most resent one was Wed. when he came. H said that he will come Sat instead of Sunday this week so he can do some work on my van. I looked at him and said, Sorry you can't do that I have plans. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You should have seen the look on his face. (Like I said I have been doing a quit plan B with him.) H said, what you goin out on some hot date? Ya, H that is what it is, and I got out of the room. H in the back ground saying I tell you everything I do. In my head I did not say it, I am thinking ya right Mother F$$@ that is why I knew you were going to the beach. H kept saying come on tell but never answered. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Then my Y son was asking him about his hand he had hurt here Sunday. I said, ya how is you hand? H said to me I shocked you would even remember. I gave him NO atention Sunday that was why he said that. Y son got him band aids and all. Then when H was leaving Wed. H said let me know about Sat. if you change your mind, witch I know you won't. I said, ok and walked away.

Last Sunday I did leave for a while and I have been leaving dress clothes out on Fri.when he comes and he is seeing that, and some other little things. Maybe H thinks I am getting on with my life. So I will continue with some more 180's then the house paper will be signed and there goes the Full Plan B. What do you guys think? If anyone is still here reading my post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ September 25, 2003, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>

Ofcourse we are "here'

I'm still not clear...did you or didn't you already give him one plan b letter...

and did he or did he not read it????

you sound well...

ARK

Ark, No... I have not H has not read his Plan B letter yet. I have said, H asked to want till we got the house taken care of. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I know it is his way of not facing what is about to happen.

I really need to post here I am feeling so lost and empty. I'm going to stop, because I feel very foolish and dum. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Maybe I am, I don't know. What I do know is I love my children and my H very much and that is that!

I want to do the right thing and I am made to feel so wrong on what I am doing. I will have to do Plan B I know that, but in my mind I need to try every step before that, because Plan B to me is the end! So that was when I started the 180's and they are working. H did pull his mother to the side last Friday. I had told him I had plans for that Sat he wanted to come over I said no, and H asked MIL what my plans were and she looked at him and said, I don't know I haven't seen her all week. Before that I had left when he got here on that Fri and H was asking my neighbor(who is a friend) what was going on and were was I going then and what was planned for Sat. She said I don't know?

I feel like everyone here is let down by me and I am sorry! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Starfish, ark, and all haven't even posted anymore. Maybe you all have been here long enough to know I am a losser and it is not going to work for me and my H. If so I wish someone would have said say so.

If you find this as some pity party well then take it for what you want! I have no drama or what ever it takes to get anyone to help me here I was just trying to figure out what is in my H's head, what he maybe thinking, that is why I have tried to post every little thing that H says, I have left out some but dam, what the hell are you to do. I do not tell it for him to be ripped apart, just trying to figure out what is he thinking from what he has said.

I do thank everyone here from the bottom of my heart for their time and reading, but I am at my end and I am tired and lonely. It has been almost two years now and I am as lost now as I was then when H left. I know I have no one to blame but ME ME,ME,ME.........I WANT TO BE HELD,LOVED,MY BEST FRIEND BACK. THE ONE I MARRIED. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

AGAIN THANK YOU ALL,AND I WISH LUCK AND HOPE TO ALL. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I know BIG DEAL! One more falling from here no big loss.

<small>[ October 03, 2003, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>

No2nos: .....I really need to post here I am feeling so lost and empty. I'm going to stop, because I feel very foolish and dum. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Maybe I am, I don't know. What I do know is I love my children and my H very much and that is that!

Orchid: NN, there is nothing wrong with what you are feeling. You are NOT foolish and dumb. I certainly understand the lost and empty feeling. Been there done that.

Remember that your H and OW are already beating you up or attempting to in order to prolong their A. Do you realize that your demise fuels the A? You can control your outcome. Maybe not the M (that requires cooperation of both spouses) but you can control your own. With that knowledge is power. Power to get things accomplished, pull yourself together (personal recovery) and move forward.

No2nos:I want to do the right thing and I am made to feel so wrong on what I am doing. I will have to do Plan B I know that, but in my mind I need to try every step before that, because Plan B to me is the end! So that was when I started the 180's and they are working.

Orchid: You have the right attitude. Now we need to help you keep up your inner strength. This is not an easy task. So don't give up on yourself.

This is why it is important to recognize and organize your personal support group. I checked back and you have had some good people posting to you. Acentuate the postive.

No2nos: H did pull his mother to the side last Friday. I had told him I had plans for that Sat he wanted to come over I said no, and H asked MIL what my plans were and she looked at him and said, I don't know I haven't seen her all week. Before that I had left when he got here on that Fri and H was asking my neighbor(who is a friend) what was going on and were was I going then and what was planned for Sat. She said I don't know?

Orchid: Believe it or not, your MIL is helping. How/Why??? By her NOT feeding him all the info, it causes him to wonder. The more wondering he does of you and the family, the less time he spents on the OW. There are still only 24 hours in a day.

No2nos:I feel like everyone here is let down by me and I am sorry! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Starfish, ark, and all haven't even posted anymore. Maybe you all have been here long enough to know I am a losser and it is not going to work for me and my H. If so I wish someone would have said say so.

Orchid: NN, that's loser kind of talk. STOP IT!
Now {{{{{cyber hug}}}}} ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You have a lot of responses with good supporting comments. Appreciate it.

Putting 2x4 away.

No2nos:If you find this as some pity party well then take it for what you want! I have no drama or what ever it takes to get anyone to help me here I was just trying to figure out what is in my H's head, what he maybe thinking, that is why I have tried to post every little thing that H says, I have left out some but dam, what the hell are you to do. I do not tell it for him to be ripped apart, just trying to figure out what is he thinking from what he has said.

Orchid: I understand the feeling like everyone is abandoning you but is that really true? Really? You know just like that fog alters the reality for the WS and OP, it can for the BS also. Becareful.

No2nos:I do thank everyone here from the bottom of my heart for their time and reading, but I am at my end and I am tired and lonely. It has been almost two years now and I am as lost now as I was then when H left. I know I have no one to blame but ME ME,ME,ME.........I WANT TO BE HELD,LOVED,MY BEST FRIEND BACK. THE ONE I MARRIED. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

AGAIN THANK YOU ALL,AND I WISH LUCK AND HOPE TO ALL. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Orchid: Ok, better. For me it has been 3+ and now with legal implications. I hate the drama. Don't like soap operas and this is definitely worse.

Know this, because the A is temporary, your pain is also temporary. Take a walk over to the d/d site. They are living through what most of us in GQII fear and they are surviving.

INo2nos: know BIG DEAL! One more falling from here no big loss.

Orchid: Our comes the 2x4 again. Whaap! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
U R important. All losses are big. U R a big deal. U R human. U R our MB friend.

Remember the motto: Friends don't let friends drink and drive?

Howz about an MB motto: MB friends don't let MB friends have a pity party by themselves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugz,
L.

no2

I am sorry you ar feeling so down..

Know that there is no feeling of not posting to you or giving up on you...
we all must move through this life at our own pace...

No2 I am not some type of PlanbNazi that wants nothing to do with you if you don't do what I say...or even more accurately "suggest"...

What I do think is that prior to tthe 180's what you have been doing was definitly working for him...but not working for you....

I am very glad the 180's are working more for you...

Your want and desire of your husband and marriage is understandable to say the least...
no body thinks differently..

Maybe you all have been here long enough to know I am a losser and it is not going to work for me and my H.

I don't know you well enough to know if you are loser...
THAT IS A JOKE!!!!
you are not a loser....

I am not sure what you think we thing isn't going to work for you....
I think the 180's are good and are working...do I think you should step it up a bit...yeah I do but that is an opinion...

you could take advantage in little ways that lean closer to plan b without actually going to plan b if that scares you so much...

could you go away over night and have husband come to your home to watch the children??

could you plan a halloween activity with no invitation for him to attend...
could you make plans for thanksgiving without him...
or are you planning the same as last year...

I think that doing nothing is not going to work...I think that he is a really good cake eater and enjoys you as part of his triangle...
and would live like this forever....

I have no drama or what ever it takes to get anyone to help me here I was just trying to figure out what is in my H's head, what he maybe thinking, that is why I have tried to post every little thing that H says,

I think your husband thinks that you will accept his poor behavior for a long time...
I think he somehow rationalizes it and makes it appear OK

I think you should remove your focus from what he thinks....and think about you...

I think you need to lay the ground work and foundations for for reconcilliation...
if he were to say he was moving home today..I would tell you no way in hell to let him in..
I think he thinks he can come home at anytime...

And NO2 i am not trying to rip your husband apart...

Boy No2 on the poor me scale at the bottom of your post...that was about a 8 .

GOOD GIRL!!!!!!!!!!
You are very good at that....but aren't we all?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

We know you hurt and are frustrated and confused...

it sucks....

No2 my honest opinion is that I believe your husband is one big scaredy cat....I think he has dug a hole deep with this other person and doesn't know how to get out...

I think he has dug a hole deep with you and doesn't know how to get home...

I think that you hold a big part of the road map to getting him home...
I think you need boundaries that wake him up and say...
this crap is for real and can not go on forever...

I don't believe that plan b...or stricter removal of you from his world and his facing consequances makes you responsible or will even illicit the end of your relationship...

I think he is begging for someone to show him how to get home...

ARK

Dear Mrs. Nose,

I wish you were happier, or less sad. Sometimes going through a sad period is a means to get to a brighter place. Hopefuly your suffering is leading to a better place for you and your children. Can you relate any feelings of fear or anger? Joking around?

I have checked back periodically, to see if you had any more updates. I click on my name, and click on View Recent Posts,and check to see if there is anything new, where I have posted. Most of the people who have posted for you have many more posts than I have.

Ark says your husband may be tryig to find a way back home. I believe that I previously said something like, what words would you use if you had an opening, to invite heim back, or even challenge him to come home? Try us for a role play. Try some phrases with us. You have said that your wayward husband should be around more often. Something like, WH: Where are your going Sat Night?

Mrs. Nose: "If you were home more, I wouldn't be going out." or "If you could find Miss what's-her-name a nice boy frined, maybe you could spend more time with your family."

No one else has mentioned another perspective, so I will bring up a concpet for your consideration. You seem happy wtih the path of getting your WH jealous. This may be the best way. Howver, at any point you have the option of stopping attempting to make him jealous. "My plans fell thorugh for Sat. Night, you can come over, if you are still available."

180 Degree Divorce Busters does recommend going out without your husband. 180 DB does not exactly recommend fooling your husband into thinking you might be going out with another man. Using jeoulusy in a husband-wife relationship can sometimes be overdone by the wife, and cause the husband to decide to give up on the marriage. One lady wrote a plan B letter, and the father of her child married another woman a week later.

180 DB recommends gettting your own self pride together. Exercise, taking care of your figure, eating healthy, getting sleep, talking to positive people. You say you are doing better. Are there any current mini-successes that you can share with us? In spite of my wife giving me a bunch of criticism over the past 24 Hours, I managed to get 7 bills paid this morning. It is hard for me to work ahead on the household, when my wife is so negative so much of the time.

You have expressed your sadness, and many posts have tried to help you with your sadness.

One idea of 180 DB is to do things that will make you feel good about yourself. You still seem to be focused for your happiness based on WH, who is misbehaving, so you are sad.

You and your husband are having budget problems. You did anticipate that finances would be tight ahead, in an earlier post, what are your plans? I discussed some budget plans with my wife, but I did not do very well. I beleive I should haved first discussed our goals, our blocks of expenses, and targeting reduction of expesnes that will not create chaos, and identifying what is needed to keep things running on an even keel.

How is your Counselor? How is your daughter doing with OW? With school started, how are things going? What if your couneslor is wrong? What if your daughter gave OW a Shirley Temple talk, and told her dad to stay at home where he belonged?

What about affirmations. I affirm that I have the wisdom to best interact with my husband to have the best chance of bringing home more often. I affirm that I am finding positive ways to support my children, and they are developing good judgement, and imporved social skills. Through chores and helping with the household and homework, my children are developing the habits of self-dicipline that will make them successful in real life.

While my posts may be of no real value to you, in themselves, my replies may cause more experienced posters to point out my mistakes, and they may give you the increased guidance that may actually be helpful to you.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling.

<small>[ October 04, 2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

no2

are you OK??
ark

N2N,

Hey, gal! Just checking in on you. Got your emails.

Doing ok?

Miss talking to ya.

{{{{{N2N}}}}}

*S*

P.S. Recognize me?

Thank you all and I am sorry for my dumb pitty party or rollercoaster ride it got a little lonely. Just wanted to say I am sorry and I have been looking real deep inside of me! To figure out who, what, when, were,why <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> This all really sucks. I am so confused, but I am trying. I just need to get a grip that someone does not love me as I love them and that is ok, but it so hard. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I just wish I knew what he wanted and that will take Plan B. I hope I have not blown that either by wanting so long like I have read in some post here.

Our Wedding Annv. is Oct 24. I hated it last year and I just am in the mood for hell for this one.
Again Thank Youuu.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hello Sparkle!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and I hope all is well Thanks

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>

N2N,

Hi! Glad you are back. I was worried about you. I was afraid you had decided to abandon the MB Board. We've all felt that depression, frustration, feeling you can't live up to expectations of others, but above all, please, please, PLEASE remember. No one here is here to judge you. We are a family with a common goal: saving our marriages. It is all about support.

Some of the other posters that you have looked for, while they try to get here to contribute what they can, are trying just as we are, to continue to build and strengthen their relationships. Don't think that because they aren't posting to you that you are a loser, are dumb, or anything else like that. They are just taking a sabbatical for a brief period. And sometimes, it is like triage...the neediest cases get first priority.

Glad you're back! Keep us in the loop, OK?

*S*

Dear N2N,

Glad to hear back from you. Any chance of adjusting your expectations for your husband, so that you won't be quite so disappointed? Some people post more about their kids. Perhaps we could focus more on their successes and trials.

Best wishes,

Quipper
Married 28 years and still struggling

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

ark you can kiss me!!!haha Got ya! You are getting slowly but surely through my thick head <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Don't give up! I here you and I see what you are saying, all of you. I am scared out of my skin, but you know what? I will have to find out one way or the other were this is all going.

THANKS THANKS THANKS!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> for you time.

LOL, well, I'm gonna need pictures.....that way I can add it to the collection of other photographic goodies I was offered today. Sheesh, must be a full moon out...

OK, I AM GOING TO TRY THIS FOR THE 100TH TIME!
Sooo.... here is my Plan B letter, tell me if this is ok, I had help from starfish on this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I know I can do this. It is going to be so hard and I am scared, of what I don't know, to being told this is it I guess and I have to face it if that is what it is to be, but I have to beleive in me and what we had before this all took place and take it from there.

H,

This is a hard letter to write, but I can no longer ignore the pain and emptiness of the last year and a half. I love you very much. I am in love with you H ,but I know its time to give up fate of our marriage to God and I pray that he works through us to heal these wounds. When I said my marriage vows, and said "I DO" I made you a promise and God that I would stay with you for life. I meant it to. That meant for better or worse. I want very much to remain married to you always.

I realize that the mistakes I made helped to make our marriage vulnerable to this affair. I am sorry and I have been working hard to understand and learn how to prevent those things from ever happening again. I have changed and become a better person and I want the opportunity to show you that I can be the wife and marriage partner you disire. I wish I could go back and change the mistakes I have made in the past, but I can't. I have how ever address the things that hurt our marriage and change the future. I can be your wife and best friend and I know our marriage can be saved if you will come home to the kids and me.

The pain of this continued affair is so hurtful to me, that it is destroying my love for you.The only way to protect the love I have left is to end any contact with you until you end the affair and commit to our marriage and stop seeing OW,when you have ended the A, you may contact me and let me know. I will welcome the chance to discuss our marriage and its recovery. Please honor my request and stop communicating to me until that happens. I am not closing the door on our marriage. I am proctecting my love for you from further harm.

I realize I have to take care of me now and the kids. I can only control me now and keep changing myself for the better. Only you can control you and change you,if you choose to. You are the only person I have allowed myself to love so deeply.

I need to learn to move on if that is the way it is to be so we both can live fuller lives. I cannot continue like this hopeing ,and praying,wishing,trying and feeling rejected continuousty. You are all I want in a husband,a daddy for the kids,and a best friend.

Please lets keep (Young Son) here at the house for awhile, till he gets use to not seeing Mommy and Daddy together. If you need to talk about YS call me for that only!

I LOVE YOU!
with
ALL My Heart&Soul
Your Wife


How is that I know III..... can do this, I CAN, I CAN, I CAN! THANKS GUYS FOR EVERYTHING!!!! H does not have a E-mail and I do not want a third party in all of this. This is our mess and some feel not right in the middle of it.I will be giving it to him with in a week ok?

<small>[ November 05, 2003, 06:12 AM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>

sorry ran out of time, finish post later thanks

<small>[ October 18, 2003, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>

Dear N2N,

I have been one to take the side of restraint on the Plan B idea. I have been in the minority. I may be wrong or incorrect.

One reason I feel you have strong support for Plan B from other readers is because you present the side of your situation that is the sad side, with which a number of other who have experienced a Wayward Spouse, can identify. Those who have experienced relief or success in Plan B with a wayward spouse, may well be giving you the benefit of their personal experience.

One reason I continue to urge restrain in Plan B, is becasue I don't feel you have given your readers the benefit of the postive side of what you have going with your husband, and what you could lose by deciding to jam him around. I further feel that you have not fully disclosed the side of the picture which has to do with your part in the situation leading to the affair.

I feel that some MB readers are supporting Plan B for you, based on incomplete information about the past and present. My powers to predict the future are limited, and I don't have a real accurate feeling about the future for you. Just that I have seen things get worse when somone tries to cut things off, with the idea of trying to make things better. Ordinarily, the way to make things better, is to work on making them better. I have suggested some conversations on those issues, but we have not gotten going.

Many MB readers take the wording of the post at face value. I have asked questions that lead behind your posts, and you have declined to reveal yourself. I respect your right to privacy, but I would point out to other readers that there is more to the picture than is in this thread. I wish you improved circumstances, and have no feelings of wanting to be right. Often I post that I hope my opinoins are wrong. Here, I feel I have insufficient info to be right or wrong.

The teenagers in your life, including your older son, are not sufficiiently life expereinced to be able to give you leadership. I recall giveing my mother marital advice, as a teenager, and then, once I was 25 or so, I realized the opposite advice was better. I wrote my mother when I was 26 or so, and explained how my advice, given as a teenager, was incorrect. My mother was more than a little perturbed with my reversal. You should be giving teenagers leadership, not followin gtheir marital advice. If you are, in part, trying to appease their wishes or ideas, I recommend that you reconsider. The teenagers probably don't have all the facts, and even if they do, they don't have the wisdom of knowing which goals are important, until they get a little older.

Blessings,

Quipper

<small>[ October 19, 2003, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

N2N,

Here are my comments on your letter. I would recommend that you eliminate anything that sounds like you are willing to wait for him. For example:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...we can begin to rebuild our marriage and our future. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To me, that tells him it's ok to have his A, take his sweet time and N2N will be the patient little W, sitting at home until he is ready to come back to her.

Instead, something like, "when you have ended the A, you may contact me and let me know. I will welcome the chance to discuss our marriage and its recovery."

By saying you'll be willing to "discuss" you are telling him that by then, whenever it is, you will discuss the future, but no promises that it will be a future that includes marriage. I firmly believe in this approach.

Now, I would also remove all mention of "moving on." You don't want this letter to sound threatening or like you are forcing him to make a choice, because right now he is not capable of doing so.

I also think that you have too much love talk in there. While this is indeed should be a letter about how much you love him, too much of it can come off sounding like you are miserable and begging. So, back off from that just a little.

Just my thoughts. I am far from an expert. I'm sure Star*Fish and others like Chris will be here soon and will be of great help to you.

All the best. When are you planning on sending/emailing it to him?

{{{{{N2N}}}}}}

*S*

Dear N,

Sorry for the late response. I have read the letter and the surrounding comments.

I have a question, what is the real reason for the Plan B letter? What is your goal/objective w/this letter? What part of your objective of your letter is for you vs your H?

L.

Sparkle, thank you and I will fix that. I see what you are saying about that.

Quipper, what are you talking about teenagers? My son sits back a looks from were he is and I have blinders on and he only points things out to me. My son is the one who found out about the affair and he does know everything we are family! Quipper I took care of my family I cooked, cleaned was there when a need was needed. My husband told me he will never find a woman like me out there, and that was not to long ago. That is why I am so lost at this.

Orchid- What is the real reason for the Plan B letter?
To find peace and to quit wondering all the time, in other words putting it in Gods hands.

What is my goals/objective w/this letter?
To show that ow can not full feel all of his emotional needs, to miss us and what he has here. To save what love I have for him so if he comes home I can be strong and ready for the next step.

What part of your objective of your letter is for you vs my H?
Stop wondering, to look at me and beleive in me. I guess really to find me again I feel like I have been lost for so long. For him to find out who is full filling his needs. Maybe he'll see she can't. I know that she is not or he would not be here like he is. I must be doing something for him! To save what love I have, everytime I see him leave it is like reliving the day he walked out on me. I feel like I need to set some boundaries here or I will never get anywhere.

I hope I answered ok for you all,I have a teenager who is here and wanting his computer back, so I will post more later thank you all for you time!!

<small>[ October 19, 2003, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: No2nos ]</small>