edited to add: I just had a police officer come to my door shortly after posting this. stbxH was released this afternoon. And on the same bail conditions! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I don't understand this. And I won't have anymore information until next week sometime... starting Tuesday, as Monday is a holiday. sigh!

I thought I'd start a new thread, and let the other ones die. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

stbxH is in jail still. He'll be there until September 3rd now. My courthouse contact doesn't know why it's being held off until then, but so far, it's been because of needing to get in touch with his lawyer, having to find him a surety (to sign for him, saying that they will take responsibility for him), and an open court date.

As far as the other thread stuff goes... yes, I have heard from "looking for you 2223" on msn. We chatted for a VERY long time this afternoon.

I will not divulge too much information from that conversation, but I will tell you that indeed, she has been brutally conned by my stbxH. In fact, she's still trying to protect him now, b/c she still has feelings for him. This guy is GOOD... he really knows his stuff. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Please don't knock her if you've chosen to email her. I have asked her to remove her addy from that thread.

Please pray for her, so that she may be able to find closure from him, and move on with her life. And while you're at it... could ya throw in a little prayer for stbxH, asking that he be grown up enough to admit to his own doings. Thanks.

Karen

<small>[ August 29, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Topie25 ]</small>

bump for the edit

Karen

topie--we talked about this--she probably is a really nice person that was conned---much like you. but please keep in mind she is still in it. be carefull. (i know you will, its just the mother in me.)

Topie....

U are asking for trouble.. THIS IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM!!!

I know you do it because you are a good person in your heart, but this can not bring any good into your life...

Stay out of this lady, she is not your responsability or nothing....

I was just reviewing her previous posts to me... and it's so true... what the heck is she doing? Her story is all mixed up. And why does she want or care to know about me, when according to the dates on the posts, they were broken up (based on what she told me on msn today).

As I've said to some others... this is giving me some sort of closure from that timeframe. Even if it is all lies, they are still answers I can live with.

Thanks nikko and matilde. You gals are always the hard-nosed ones... only usually you save the 2x4's for ladies chat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Luv ya!

Karen

Heya, Topie -

I have to agree with matilde and nikko.

Someone somewhere here said that OPs generally like to be manipulating/controlling the situation, including both the WP and the BP. As I look back on my own experience, I think the observation rings true. The more attention you give to the situation that the OP and the WP have created, the more true that is.

In this case maybe it's malicious and maybe it's not. Either way, it's -certainly- an attempt to get your attention. And if you give attention, it seems to me you run a grave risk of being drawn back into a very dangerous situation.

Given that, I think that the truth of the stories is irrelevant. The important thing is to continue to focus on protecting yourself and your family. Right now, in this mess, that's all you can do.

Karen,

Howz it goin'?

L.

Topie - I'm anxious for your safety and privacy on this forum all over again, after that last thread with 2223.

I know there's a lot of hard feelings here (which is understandable), but is there any way to check out whether her story is true - that she met Dave on 4th Dec, and did not get "involved" with him until "after you were out of the house" - some people, yes, young women (you can still be emotionally pretty young and idealistic in your 20's, b4 life knocks you around a bit) don't respect marriage the way we do - they think if a man is separated from his wife, he is "free for the taking". Believe me, *I* know how dangerous this can be - our best friend's daughter separated from her H 6 months ago, and her estranged H just went and killed her BF and himself last week. I pointed out to my H that as far as her H was concerned, she was still his wife, and he just snapped.

Be that as it may, she sounds really messed up to me - she doesn't think she had a lot to do with breaking up your marriage - and in a way, she is right - your stbx is pretty scary material, and his choices in life have been his alone. You would probably be where you are now, regardless of whether or not Lisa had ever happened in his life.

What concerns me is that she knows your identity here and unless you are SURE there is NC between her and Dave, she could relay some of what you say here to him. Especially if she gets mad at you. You have every right to be angry with her, but that is not going to protect you.

The only reason for you to meet with her would be for her benefit - as she said, to help her understand what happened to her, if its true she no longer has contact with Dave, and is now with a new BF. But how can you be sure that if you do meet with her, that you won't be followed back to your home? Its not safe. If you want to help her, do it by e-mail and not on this forum. But don't trust her, and don't reveal too much. Have you thought about changing your name on this forum and how you would do it? I've done it once - your friends will be able to find you if you do.

Does she know what your H is going on trial for? Child pornography? Is she clear that that is what kind of a person he is?

PLEASE be careful.

love and hugs to you,

LIR

Things are going okay.

I think chatting with Lisa did more damage to me than I thought it would. On its own, it would have been fine, that I'm sure of. However, there are other things going on around me (Shy's death, Eric starting school, a long lost friend in Toronto having severe personal problems, etc)... all of which I'm taking on a bit too much.

Silly me, has been thinking too much into why Lisa was getting in touch with me. I should know better than that, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I've gotten the information for what I wanted to hear, and that's good enough. I do beleive she is a very nice girl, but she's been sucked into H's trap, and is still protecting him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

What is getting me down the most, is that I'm remembering so much of the crap that H put me through throughout our R. I may try to make a post about it in the next little while, just to cleanse it out of my system. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> In the meantime, yes, I'm trying to focus on the fact that I no longer have to live with it.

Karen

p.s. I think what may have thrown me for a loop the most, was Lisa telling me that H said that he missed the boys AND me!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What a pathetic liar! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> But then again... why wouldn't he miss me? I was the best thing that ever happened to him.. and he'll NEVER have that from myself or anyone else again. So sad.

Karen,

Good to hear from you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

'Little brain' from the west coast (now I know what LB stands for - LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ).

Hugs to you, Topie,

You have such a good heart, and its natural to want to help someone that you can guess has been screwed over by Dave as well. Maybe you would have been able to help her, had not all the other things been happening, but I'm not sure. You have been through so much that, regardless of her part, she is a big trigger for you in reviving all the old feelings. No matter how much you might feel you would want to help her out of the "fog", it doesn't help you - I would say for your own recovery, you should stay away from her - not talking and certainly no meeting. From everything you have already said to her, she has been warned about what kind of person your WH is, so there is no need for any more warning.

I do beleive she is a very nice girl, but she's been sucked into H's trap, and is still protecting him...Lisa telling me that H said that he missed the boys AND me!!!

Well, there you go - she is still in contact with him (regardless of the supposed new BF) and he is supposedly talking about you to her. Makes me shiver. You don't know that he means what he says when he says he misses you. Could be just playing on her sense of pity to get her to help him find you. I'd stay far, far away from this girl - don't let her bring trouble back into your life. She has enough information to take care of herself if she wants to, and if she had any brains at all, he would be out of her life completely.

I'm sorry you've had to go through this again. Your willingness to talk to her in the beginning just shows what a good person you are, Topie. You have so much going for you - you are going to have a GREAT life - and your kids are lucky that they have one GREAT mom!

Take care,
LIR

Topie,

I don't know what quality the OW has that makes you think she is a nice person. She may act nice because she is getting sympathy, but in my book, she isn't nice at all because:

1. She knows your WH is married, and chooses to particpate in adultery with him anyway.

2. She doesn't care enought about you to stop the agony she is causing you.

3. Even after knowing you, she still persists in destroying your marriage and hurting you.

4. She is a-moral, weak-willed and of low character, selfish, and probably stupid as well.

That doesn't seem like a good person to me, no matter what she looks like, sounds like or whatever she says.

Like others have said, please stay clear of this one. She's going down the tubes and doesn't care about anything or anyone except herself.

Thanks for the kind words everyone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am so thankful to have my MB family to support me. You're all awesome! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I haven't heard from Lisa online in a few days, nor do I think I will. She's undoubtedly finding all of your comments either intimidating or rude. LOL. I don't think she's anywhere near seeing them as constructive criticisms.

As far as her still being in contact with Dave, I'm not sure on that one entirely. She claims she is ignoring his MSN messages to her... but if she really wanted him out of her life, she'd simply block him. So even though she may not be actually contacting him, he is still contacting her, and therefore, there is still contact.

Yes, this contact with her has caused a major disturbance to my own personal recovery. I don't like being where I'm at right now, emotionally. I lived it for too many years... and I really want to be free of it. My life is so much better without Dave.

In regards to her saying he missed the boys and I, she was referring to when they had first met. I figure that was his sick way of getting sympathy from others. "Oh you poor thing!" they would and do think. And then they would do their best to comfort him. Next thing you know, one thing would lead to another... blah blah blah. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Of course NO ONE planned that to happen... except Dave. What a piece of work he is! Ugh!

She also believes that he really is trying to change his ways. Yah...whatever. Apparently when they were living together, he made her get rid of her computer, b/c that was violating his bail conditions. Hmmm... sounds more like he was trying to control her. Of course, he has continued to have access to HIS online f***friends, via his cellphone.

Damn... I'm going "back there" again. So many months of feeling great... shot within a few days. Well... not shot... just backstepped a bit. Hmmm... now how do I get back to where I was a few days ago?

Karen

Karen

On my latest thread I asked the question similar to your own. The answer the J gave me was very good. DON'T PLAY THE GAME. Don't throw the toys where they bounce back and hit you.

Communicating with Lisa is detrminental to your personal recovery, and you deserve better. I don't mean to be rude about her, but she'll probably say whatever she wants at the moment, because it would seem highly unlikely that's she's actually addressed her own part in this sorry mess.

Put it away, let it go. You owe her nothing. Get back to concentrating on you and the boys.

Wishing you well from London.

Lisa

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Topie25:
<strong>.....Damn... I'm going "back there" again. So many months of feeling great... shot within a few days. Well... not shot... just backstepped a bit. Hmmm... now how do I get back to where I was a few days ago?

Karen</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Karen,

Here's give us your hand. Feel that tug? It's an MB hug and now we are attempting to help pull you off the ground and back on your feet. .....you will know when that feeling of stability in this emotional rollercoaster occurs. Steady.......u r almost there.

What you have been through is more than most. Yet you have strengthened us by your unfailing desire to maintain your family. Your integrity is noteworthy.

I know it is hard for you and you so much want to right what is wrong. For some of what we see and experience we have to let the wrong be wrong for what we can not control.

Lisa (OW) needs to fix herself. I know she doesn't like to hear it so it is like she is in her own fog world. ex: if she is really with a new man, then why is she continuing contact with WS of any sort. If the new man is soooo great why would he allow that? Hm...... you just gotta wonder. This child has more issues than just the WS. Until she addresses them and accepts the help......she will continue to go from one drama to another. Where that takes her is someplace you don't want to be. Now it is sad that she doesn't have someone loving and caring to help her but at some point you have to draw the line.

Karen, you know me. Mrs. Fix-it almost lost her soul awhile back. Only until I saw that the greatest help was at times, letting go did I really see progress for both myself and others.

Keeping laughter as the best medicine in our MB medicine cabinet also helps. But 'honey' isn't always the best salve of life.

Hugz to you and your boys. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Hi Karen, I've been lurking and haven't posted to you in a while, but I have been following your updates. Your H and his antics never cease to amaze me, that's for sure. I'll bet life's just simpler knowing he's in jail at the moment!

I agree that chatting with Lisa is probably something you shouldn't bother with again, especially if it dredges up all sorts of old emotions and bad memories. You're going through enough right now, as you've said "(Shy's death, Eric starting school, a long lost friend in Toronto having severe personal problems, etc)".

Look after you, don't waste your time on Lisa. She'll have to learn life's hard lessons for herself it would seem. Perhaps you're just too kind, and think you can help her, perhaps it was all just curiosity after her BIZARRE, mixed up, and poorly typed posts, but I say just forget about her.

Good luck with Eric's first day of school tomorrow (I'm assuming it's tomorrow, as it's first day of classes for me tomorrow)!

Jen

I understand the fact that you are tring to keep karen safe but COME ON...follow her home? You know its kinda funny how you have great web sites like this...that help you heal after a bad marriage. Karen ..you had a bad marriage and its NOT my fault.I thought this MB was a great thing because you seem to get alot of support..well ...some people.All this MB is doing is making me feel like piece of crap.I thought i might get a few questions answers answered and a bit of support but i was wrong. How can you call each other a support group...your suppose to support all that needs it.Im a con .Im this..i need to grow up..blah blah.Whatever..i feel bad for Karen..I do. And the fact that i still have contact with dave is BS. I did delete him but it doesnt stop him from msg me. Trust me ..I am sooooo donr with that ...you cant even call him a man cuz a man takes care of his Kids.I have learned alot about Dave that makes me want to puke. You guys can believe im a pest but I know who I am and i know what I want. And yes im with a great guy and his right beside me...so i guess what im saying is that i dont need you guys to approve of me cuz i know im a desent person. And Im very insulted Karen that you called me a pathetic lyer cuz if there are two things i hate are lyers and theives.Well thats about all I had to say.. Its great to know people care(sarcasm)just remember 1 thing people..daves the bad guy here!!

Karen ~ I'm sure you know my thoughts about this without me telling you.

Lisa ~ Yes, Dave is the bad guy, we all know that. I, like many others do not trust your words, motives or actions. We do not know you to say that you wouldn't follow her home.

You have been very inconsistent in your writings, which breeds further mistrust.

I am not attacking you, that is not the point of my post. When you attack my friends and family I will defend them to the end. Please seek counseling for yourself to find out why you got into this situation and how to never do it again.

God speed Lisa.

looking for you 2223:

You had me rereading my posts in this thread. I couldn't imagine that I would call you a name, specifically a pathetic liar. I can understand the mixup... and how you could have thought I was meaning you... but it was Dave I was calling the "pathetic liar". Sorry for the misunderstanding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> You had told me on MSN that Dave claimed he missed us (the boys and I)... and I think that was a lie said by him... b/c his actions do NOT, nor have they EVER matched those words.

Please also understand that I am not calling you a liar. I am, along with others, trying to point out to you that your stories don't match. One post you say one thing, and the next, it's something different. Granted, part of that mixup has to do with your put-on ESL spelling. I think we're all just looking to hear you admit to, and apologize for such actions on your part. MBers are a VERY fogiving bunch, believe it or not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Lisa, you are right in that it is not your fault that my M failed. No one ever suggested that. The point that is trying to be made, is that M's can fail all the more easily, b/c people such as yourself (and we are ALL susceptible), fall into the traps of typical WS's, and believe that separation is the same as divorce. It is not. For example... if Dave and I were to reconcile today (it's NOT going to happen everyone... know that as a FACT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ), we would still be considered "married". Since the divorce hasn't gone through yet, we wouldn't have to go back before a minister or JP to be REmarried... we still are. IF that were to happen (as it did in 2001), that would make you an OW... having a R with a married man. Do you understand that side of it? Once you can, you will be on your road to healing from what Dave did to you, in an MB sense. Again... we are not saying it is your fault... but you DID make the conscious decision to get involved with him, knowing full well that his W and kids fled only a few short weeks before you met him.... and that he was in fact, still a married man.

As far as Dave still contacting you on MSN, deleting him isn't enough. Try readding him, and then block him. He should get the message. And as I said to you before, if you REALLY want to have him stop, just call the police and report his internet use. He's breaking his bail conditions by being on there... even if it is through a cell phone.

You can still find support here on MB Lisa... but first you need to own up to YOUR part in what happened to you. I am NOT being condescending here: Do you know what your part is yet?

Karen

OK you have a great point Karen.And like i told you on msn and postings I am very sorry for going out with Dave.i never should have dated a married man.
But put yourself in my shoes..I ve dated men my age and all they have ever done was cheat on me and in one case physically abuse me...now.. i met a guy who takes me out..tells me Im pretty, would it really matter if he was married?I had the picture that you two had been seperated for a long time. dave made it out as though he was the victima. I felt so bad for him.But I relize now he was only ever saying that so he could use me.
Like i said if i could turn back time.
I relize that my postings were all messed up but i have a hard time spelling.(my friend for christmas got me a shirt that says state spelling chimp)So maybe I got the wrong message across but my friend Lynn is typing this for me so I make sure you guys understand me.
I dont think i need councelling. People get divorced and remarried everyday. When you are seperated I always thought it was fine to date if thats what you want.I honestly didnt know it had been only a few weeks.
And like you said Karen,your now dating or thinking about it...should the new man be doing wrong if your still married ?but its ok cuz you say?
I know it sounds as though I keep making excuses for what i did and trust me Im not. im just tring to explain how it all came about.
If i am such a bad person then why am i still interacting with MB even after ive been bashed and insulted? Ive answered all your questions. I dont think I will ever be accepted here and thats fine.
Come on people add a bit more salt to my wounds...