Why is it that a BS has to mollycoddle (sp?) a WS through recovery?

It seems to be a common theme around here that a WS deserves tons of love and understanding and that we're supposed to hug and support our spouse, even if they're telling us something HORRIBLE. Even if they're telling us that they've disrespected us (BS's), that they think we're awful people, that they've made bad judgements about us, et al, we're supposed to politely sit through the talks and then thank them for it? I mean, really, this seems like punishment piled on top of punishment. It does not seem justifiable. It doesn't seem fair that a BS should have to pat the WS on the head and keep telling them that they're alright and that we'll (the BS's) do all we can to make them happy. Shouldn't this be the time that the WS does what they can to smooth things over?

I think this is another injustice of an A. Not only does a BS get no choice in dealing with an A (ok, two choices -- deal with it or divorce -- pretty limited), but they've also got to repeatedly take the high road. We're no longe allowed to "act out" or to express what we're truly feeling, because it's a LB. Our WS's can't be loving enough and remorseful enough to mollycoddle us and pat us on the shouder and be willing to do whatever it takes.

BS are constantly running into walls of resentment with their WS's. They're not getting the communication, EN's, etc met. They're working thier butts of only to be met with frustration.

Of course, I understand that ALL WS's are not like this. But there is also a good portion that are.

We wonder why the D rate in this country is so high, yet we're given spouses tainted by society and a lack of morals (I'm sorry, anyone who has an A stepped off of the moral block for a while even, let's be honest!). When are people going to get real and see that the world isn't just here for THEM. That they've got to live within the bounds of it and there are sometimes prices to pay for their misdeeds.

Ugh...sorry, I guess this turned into more of a vent.

It's still a question I am curios to hear answers to.

Wondrme

<small>[ September 03, 2003, 01:26 AM: Message edited by: Wondrme ]</small>

There are 2 ways to skin a cat (YUCK).....I mean there is more than 1 way to deal with a situation.

While anger is a normal and common reaction to an abhorent situation (following shock), living with anger is not healthy. That is why 'killing with kindness' can work. Not immediately, but when your mind and heart are ready.

The A has a tendancy to disconnect the mind and heart of the WS and BS. At different times and for different reasons. It is vital that the mind and heart be in sync in order to deal logically with this illogical problem.

One of the things most BS here miss is identifying their personal boundaries (the things that are important to them). What you think they are vs what they end up being may be different. True soul searching reveals much about our inner self. Might even be a shock to the WS.

So the best way to do this is to channel all that pent up anger and anxiety into working on bettering yourself. Most newbies here get sick of hearing that over and over again. It is repeated by many of us because, IT IS THE TRUTH!

Seeing is not believing.....doing is believing.

L.

Hi wondrme...speaking as a FWW, I don't think it's at all fair that the BS should be the main one working on recovery. Ever since D-Day, I have felt the burden to do everything I can towards recovery.

In fact, my H has been less active in it, in some respects. Although he has been dedicated about trying to meet most of my EN's, he has not read any of the recommended books, and has steadfastly resisted going to marriage counseling.

I've never understood WS's who don't care about working on recovery, or allow their BS's to shoulder most of it. IMO, the least a WS can do...in the light of the pain they've caused their spouse and the damage they've done to their marriage...is to enthusiastically work on recovery and restoration.

Wondrme,

I hear you loud and clear. I am struggling so much with the fact that the WS gets to leave the responsibilities of the house and family and go carry on the A and have all the fun times with the OP, and us BS are left to deal with the heartbroken kids and every day responsibilities.

I have done what Orchid says us BS need to do, but I am becoming increasingly frustrated with WS who hasn't made the least bit of an effort to figure out what will make them happy. My WS has done everything to show me that they don't wish to remain married or work on coming to a resolution either way, but does not seem to want to take that last and final step and cut me loose. I hope WS gets their head on straight real soon because I don't know how much more of this I can take. This probably doesn't help much, since it is more of a vent as yours was. Sorry and good luck.

I believe that we get the burden in the beginning because we are sane. I firmly believe that normally sane, good people who have an A are temporarily insane...messed up, in fog whatever phrase you like. If you think of it as temporary insanity, it allows you to carry the initial burden a little easier.

Once my FWH got help (was cured of temporary insanity) he carried his share and sometimes more then his fair share of the recovery burden.

Orchid is right part of the key is the boundaries that a BS sets after dday. All people who suffer from some form of insanity or addiction need boundaries...if we don't set them and enforce them we can't help them recover...we become enablers.

The mistake we often make as a BS is thinking of our WS in the same way we thought of them pre-A...they aren't those people...so don't expect them to act like them...they are temporarily insane people...treat them like that and you'll usually get better results.

Just my two cents...

I know when I ended my EA it was because I knew I had to give my marriage a fair shot. However, I knew (or thought I knew at the time) that if my DH found out about the EA that it would be over, finis, caput, no two ways about it. So, here I am, I've ended my extracurricular relationship, I want to give my marriage a fair shot, but knowing that my DH would be angry and probably boot me out of the house, I did what any "sane" (for lack of a better word) person in my shoes would do--I shut down emotionally. So, I'm in a marriage, I'm going through withdrawal from my EA and my husband and kids, and at the same time I'm trying to keep my husband from finding out. Clearly a smart and well thought out plan-------NOT!!!

However, once my H did find out, after taking the full force of his wrath head on (as much as possible since he confronted me via email because I was out of town) and finding out that he still loved me after the h*ll I put him through, then and only then was I able to begin any type of recovery process. Once I began that, I think I embraced it fully as much as he did. Now a year later, we are closer, probably not as much as the "honeymoon" phase in our early recovery, but a deeper kind of closer. Now we are working on maintaining that closeness.

OK, wondrme, now that I've given you my recovery history, let's address your question--why doesn't a WS put more effort into the marriage--some thoughts that pop into my head are these--fear of the wrath of the BS, ending of the marriage, fear that once found out they have to make a decision that some are not ready to make (cake walking/fence sitting), or just plain cowardice to face the music and own up to their own selfish behavior (that would be me raising my hand here).

And I'm sure there are other reasons, but I'll bet that those I've listed above are some of the top ones. Hope this helps.....

Why is it that the BS typically has to initiate recovery?
For the same reason that hungry people more often want to eat when non-hungry people don't and thirsty people want to drink when non-thirsty people don't.

Shouldn't this be the time that the WS does what they can to smooth things over?
They don't necessarily want to smooth things over yet. They would rather it just be all over. "Just get over it" ring a bell?

Besides, if the ws is NOT taking the lead here, what are ya' gonna do? Someone has to do something and it is the bs (who has come here and learned lots) that usually get the ball rolling.

We're no longe allowed to "act out" or to express what we're truly feeling, because it's a LB.
You shouldn't have been doing this previously. The way I interpret your comment is that if your spouse does something you don't like, it's okay to yell & scream before an affair, but now it's wrong cause it's a LB?

Not only does a BS get no choice in dealing with an A (ok, two choices -- deal with it or divorce -- pretty limited),
I don't understand this? What other options are there?

but they've also got to repeatedly take the high road.
You would rather take the low road?

That is a great question and it used to drive me nuts and make me indignant. I like the insanity theory, and I also felt like I was the strong one, i.e. I resisted the temptations for extramarital activities that my ww could not. But beyond the heroic view is a purely selfish and ego driven one, suddenly I was thrown into a competition I never knew existed and did not want, but I knew one thing, I did not want to lose. So I fought for the marriage with all I had. I cried elsewhere and mollycoddled (great choice of words)at home or here, at least most of the time. I led the way, to the counselor, to Retrouvaille, to the book store and library, and yes there were times I resented it and still do but it sure seems better than the alternative, but I'll never know that will I?

Jack

Wondrme

SHOUT it from the rooftops! I too am sick of being the only one trying to work on myself and the marriage. I get just enough encouragement to give me hope while day after day nothing changes.

Thanks for the VENTING thread!

Wondrme -

Try this on for size. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm a WS. Still kinda foggy and quite confused in alot of this particular life experience.

Here's some of what I'm dealing with inside:
____________________________
I cheated; never - EVER thought I was capable of it.

I became someone my wife doesn't know... I don't even really know me anymore. Let me tell you something; not knowing yourself is alltogether unnerving.

I'm in professional counseling; I never - EVER imagined I'd need it... I believed in my deepest being that counselors were kooks. *to some extent I still do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> * But I go weekly now... because it turns out I'm a kook too.

I stopped doing all the things that were important to living with the exception of autonomic processes like breathing etc.

I moved out of the house I bought and was so proud of, my crowning acheivement, and found myself not ever wanting to go back or even park in the garage.

I was perfectly willing to live for months on an army cot in an unfinished basement of a friend's house giving up everything that I'd worked my whole life to achieve. Which, BTW, is completely F*d up.

I willingly put multiple thousands of minutes on my work cellular knowing full well I could lose my job for the infraction.

I told my W of 13 years, out of the blue, that I was in love with another woman and that our marriage was over.

At times during my exile, I went for as long as a week without seeing or even calling my 5 year old son.

I nurtured an adulterous relationship to the exclusion of my own physical health and found myself with severe anxiety and suddenly depending on medication to get me through the bad moments. Even as I type this - I'm suffering a mild anxienty attack. How whacked is THAT?

I've put the OW and her family in a horrible position not once - but twice. Even though she has to be responsible for her own family and the repercussions of her own actions, I still feel the weight of my selfishness not only at home but there as well. THAT compounded GUILT is astonishing in it's payload.

Not looking for pity here - I'm just giving you the facts as they apply to THIS WS.

__________________________-

I am home now going on just over 2 weeks.

Here's the rub:

Considering all the above and understanding full well how screwed up it all is, I am vacant.

I know I should be trying and I am going to heroic efforts. Though there have been very bad days of depression for me that I was not able to conceal, I have been very helpful and trying to avoid the LB's if for no other reason that for the trying.

I feel nothing. NOTHING. as far as love is concerned. I feel nothing for my wife. We go to dinner and I look at her and I'm just quiet and looking and I'm remembering how I used to look at her and just turn to mush; how she would enter a room and the lights would dim. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It's true!

Now I try... even though I don't feel anything even stirring - I read your thread and I wonder if she believes or even sees my efforts. I hear people here suggest that if you just put yourself into it... do the actions... that the rest may come back. So I try.

I believed at first that my wife didn't care to try to rebuild this mess I made. She feels much of what you expressed at the top of this thread though she has not voiced it quite the same way. *she's been a bit less pleasant in that respect* But I forced myself to try to notice her efforts, as grudging as they may be, and gain some level of reward for that.

I don't expect her to try. Looking at everything above, which doesn't scratch the surface really, I don't really feel like I deserve her effort. And honestly - with the lack of feelings for her - part of me doesn't want her to try.

So knowing that she is making the effort at any level is keeping me in the game, albeit reluctantly, it keeping me there. If she reached out to me and completely set her own hurt aside to help pull me out of this thing, I'd likley break down in sobs. It would be a catalyst to healing.

For now, that catalyst is dormant.

The setup, though long-winded <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , was just my attempt at putting you in his head. From MY perspective as the WS, I can see how the selflessness of a BS reclaiming what is theirs by right and loving genuinely even through the pain and horrific injustice of such betrayal would be the shortest path to rebuilding a marriage.

ARK has said alot of things to me during my time on MB... some of which was followed swiftly by a 2X4 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . One of her pet peeves is the power-struggle between spouses. My humble opinion is that if power-struggling during a faithful marriage can destroy hope and love, imagine what it can do while your trying to lay the foundation of a new beginning. Maybe we should forget about whether the WS is or isn't doing his/her fair share and concentrate on what each spouse has control over, should they choose to control it, and that is their own actions.

For the first time in my life... I have no expectations... I'm just taking one step at a time.

My thoughts.

Good luck and God bless.

-TMD

A.K.A TrulyMadlyDeeply

<small>[ September 03, 2003, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: -TMD ]</small>

Thank you for that post TMD,
I need to read more WS's perspectives now and then. It keeps me sane as a BS. WSs are human too, right?

"Shouldering ALL the weight" of the marraige thru PLAN A is so difficult at times. The FOG of a BS sometimes depicts a WS that is doing NOTHING to help the marraige. This is especially true when our strength and reserves are low. When our emotions are raw and need tending. It is hard not to fall into the "poor me" pit of thinking.

I just try to keep remembering that I love my H and H hit a pothole in the road of life, mainly because he wasn't watching where he was going w/ either his heart or his mind.

Sucks being the saner of the two, doesn't it?
How I would love to be temporarily insane for just a few moments, rant and rave, cry hysterically, vent, beg, scream, pound my fists, kick my feet, like a two yr old having a temper tamtrum.

Oh well.
Such is the life of a BS trudging thru PLAN A, before the WS wakes up.

Hugs to all
xo
Hypatia

<small>[ September 03, 2003, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: *Hypatia ]</small>

wow tmd..
that was one he** of a post...

I do believe it brought tears to my eyes...

Being lost within oneself isn't necessarily a bad thing....

be wary of not being so lost that she can only perceive it as continual turning from her...(betrayal)

call me sappy and sentimetal but even in all your numbness there are some things that appear hopeful...and your statement about if your wife were set her own hurt aside and help you pull out...is the part that makes me cry...

perhaps tmd...just perhaps..while you claim to feel no love..perhaps you and your wife are in the pre-infant stages...of really learning about love for the first time....real deep love...the action type of love...not just the word love

perhaps...that is so...

she clings to what is known because it is "safe"...as do we all most of the time...
praying she will learn through this...

ark

TMD,

Thanks so much for your post. Some of your thoughts seem to maybe mirror my H's although he hasn't said so -- I can just see it now....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by -TMD:
<strong>

Here's some of what I'm dealing with inside:
____________________________
I cheated; never - EVER thought I was capable of it.

My H knew he was capable and better
boundaries should have been in place.
(He cheated on everyone he ever went out
with.) His father cheated on his mother
and he always said once the commitment
was made, he would not do the same...

I became someone my wife doesn't know... I don't even really know me anymore. Let me tell you something; not knowing yourself is alltogether unnerving.

I can see my H thinking this. I have
even told him I don't know him any more.

I'm in professional counseling; I never - EVER imagined I'd need it... I believed in my deepest being that counselors were kooks. *to some extent I still do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> * But I go weekly now... because it turns out I'm a kook too.

My H's mom was a psych nurse and put
him in counseling a LOT when he was
growing up -- he learned how to play
the game (kids view) so never reaped
the benefits he might have gotten had
he trusted and opened up. He is going
to MC now when he can.

I stopped doing all the things that were important to living with the exception of autonomic processes like breathing etc.

Sometimes I think he is still doing this.

At times during my exile, I went for as long as a week without seeing or even calling my 5 year old son.

My H did this too and when I would call
him on it -- he would still say he was a
good father -- that alone told me he wasn't
thinking clearly.

I nurtured an adulterous relationship to the exclusion of my own physical health and found myself with severe anxiety and suddenly depending on medication to get me through the bad moments. Even as I type this - I'm suffering a mild anxienty attack. How whacked is THAT?

As soon as my H ended the A (that I didn't
know about at that time) he ended up in the
hopt having anxiety attacks. Went into
depression after that -- he will not admit
this, though.
__________________________-

Considering all the above and understanding full well how screwed up it all is, I am vacant.

Sometimes I feel as if my H is "vacant" as
well and that is why he cannot be consistent.
He's only trying when he can, I know, but
it is still frustrating nonetheless.

I know I should be trying and I am going to heroic efforts. Though there have been very bad days of depression for me that I was not able to conceal, I have been very helpful and trying to avoid the LB's if for no other reason that for the trying.

ARE YOU ON MEDICATION? Please consider if
you are not.

I feel nothing. NOTHING. as far as love is concerned. I feel nothing for my wife. We go to dinner and I look at her and I'm just quiet and looking and I'm remembering how I used to look at her and just turn to mush; how she would enter a room and the lights would dim. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It's true!

I'm hoping this is due to the depression.
I am sure she feels this. I just told
my H this yesterday, I deep down do not
feel he loves me any more. I feel like
he loves me as a mother, not as a wife.
I'm hoping he heard me and wants to try to
show me more. Little acts of consideration
would help tremendously!

Now I try... even though I don't feel anything even stirring - I read your thread and I wonder if she believes or even sees my efforts. I hear people here suggest that if you just put yourself into it... do the actions... that the rest may come back. So I try.

I really think she does. It's when WS's
are not consistent that it confuses us.
When you are not consistent, it makes us
feel like you are only trying when you
feel like it or want sex. We know full
well how much you pursued OW and how hard
you tried to keep A going and it hurts
our feelings when we see you are not
putting forth as much effort in your M.

But now, after reading your post, I see
how difficult that can be.

I believed at first that my wife didn't care to try to rebuild this mess I made. She feels much of what you expressed at the top of this thread though she has not voiced it quite the same way. *she's been a bit less pleasant in that respect* But I forced myself to try to notice her efforts, as grudging as they may be, and gain some level of reward for that.

Please do gain some reward. Just the fact
that she didn't ask for divorce and throw
you out for good is a plus. We (BS) have
been shattered. Unlike you, we do not feel
"vacant," we feel "raw." We feel everything
to the Nth degree and that is why we seem
so back and forth to the WS as well. Things
that didn't set us off before do now. We
see hidden meaning in EVERYTHING since we
were lied to for so long and RIGHT TO OUR
FACE!

I don't expect her to try. Looking at everything above, which doesn't scratch the surface really, I don't really feel like I deserve her effort. And honestly - with the lack of feelings for her - part of me doesn't want her to try.

I think my H is feeling this too. In fact,
I'm going to print your post and ask
him to read and comment. I hope he does.
He will not come to this "stupid" web site.
His words, not mine.

Just like you feel like you don't deserve
her effort, maybe she feels like she can
no longer receive love? I just came to
that realization yesterday. I think I'm
feeling like I do not deserved to be loved
for some reason -- here I go to IC'g, I guess.
So you see the limbo here if this is what
is going on w/your wife as well?

So knowing that she is making the effort at any level is keeping me in the game, albeit reluctantly, it keeping me there. If she reached out to me and completely set her own hurt aside to help pull me out of this thing, I'd likley break down in sobs. It would be a catalyst to healing.

I hear you LOUD AND CLEAR! I will now
try harder. I want to cry for you now too.
You probably should tell her this. If not
once, maybe twice or how many times until
it soaks in. Maybe put it in writing and
let her read it on her own so it can soak in.
Maybe it will have the same effect on her
as it has me. My H hasn't cried like I have.
I saw it as not being very remorseful. Now
I see that maybe he hasn't been able to
yet. I believe that it will help you, TMD,
to get to that point -- to release it all.

For now, that catalyst is dormant.

Maybe we should forget about whether the WS is or isn't doing his/her fair share and concentrate on what each spouse has control over, should they choose to control it, and that is their own actions.

THIS MAKES A LOT OF SENSE!

For the first time in my life... I have no expectations... I'm just taking one step at a time.

My thoughts.

Good luck and God bless.

-TMD

A.K.A TrulyMadlyDeeply</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMD,

Again, any medication? Maybe your wife might need some too? I'm beginning to think I will need something after this past weekend. It was a bad one and showed me how much anger I still have inside. Way, way, too much anger.

H and I went out for the first time since D-day. We stayed out until midnight. Daughter got up at 6:30 a.m. and I got up with her. H did not get up when son got up. I asked him too a couple of times as I needed to go to the store. H did not get up until 11 a.m. This really made me mad and made me think, once again, how inconsiderate he is. That he assumes that I am to be the primary caregiver and he is not sharing in the responsibilities, etc., etc.

I am just telling you the above becuase that is one of the things that will set us backwards when he does something like that and my anger and resentment builds. I feel like the least he could do is show equal consideration, you know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />