WS appears to have no desire whatsoever to work on our M, but seems to have all the energy and enthusiasm to work on relationship with OP. I don't understand why WS just doesn't cut me loose then. We don't see eachother besides the exchange of kids and counseling (my choice).

WS does not think they are in the fog about the whole situation, but rather believes they are awake and clear on what is going on. WS does not appear to have ANY GUILT WHATSOEVER about carrying on A while separated. I think this is partly because WS may be trying to make me suffer as much as they believe they had suffered in the past when their EN were not being met.

Can anyone shed some light on what the "fog" theory involves, what it's symptoms are and how to lift the fog from their eyes. How long in an average A does it take for the fog to lift and the WS to realize this and want to begin to work on M?

<small>[ September 04, 2003, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: alwaysbeenfaithful ]</small>

FOG

The specialness of my feelings is unique .... and nothing else is as important.

No one has ever had feelings as strong as mine.

These feelings will last forever. (an almost universal fog thought, from what I can tell)

The only real thing in my life is these feelings. Anything else before this was not real.

The rules of normal conduct (ethics) do not apply, because these feelings are so powerful.

The rules of normal thought (logic) do not apply, because these feelings are so powerful.

I was meant to follow my feelings.

My feelings are so strong that they cancel out any other considerations.

My feelings are so good they trump any other obligations.

I deserve these feelings and I will protect these feelings.

My kids, my family, my spouse should honor my feelings.

My feelings are God's will. .... [this is my personal favorite fog remark]

Like an infant .... their feelings are the only thing on the menu. Their thought process nearly ceases to exist. They are nearly 100% feelings powered. Not much else matters .... Not your feelings, not anyone elses feelings, not ethics, not principles, not vows, not the 10 commandments, not financial matters ..... just their feelings.

Like an infant.

Pep (that's my take anyway) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

ABF - Pepper response is right on.

It's likely why they compare the person in an affair like an addicted person on drugs or booze.

We all know of someone who's had thoughs problems and watched as they live in a world consummed by just there needs and thoughts. Everything is for the fix, to escape there pain.

As for your time question I don't know if there is an average or normal time before the WS starts thinking with a clear head. I'm 6 months past DDAY when my WW left and I like you have seen no signs of any remorse or changes in my WW attitude.

By the way it's not up to you husband to cut you loose. You have the power to decide your future. You will get though this one way or another.

Pepperband,

Thank you very much for the clarity. As I thought, my WS is definitely in the fog. WS's reality is so distorted these days, it's almost as if they are mentally ill or mentally challenged.

Thank you again.

Goodguy007,

Thanks for the clarity. I do realize I have the power to decide. I'm just not emotionally ready for that yet.

Thanks again.

Among the best advice I've received here: don't believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see.

I received news (unsolicited, but from a very good source), that OW is on the point of leaving, for the very same problems that occured in our M. You'd certainly never guess that from the togetherness show in public. I was beginning to think maybe all the Harley theories were wrong in this case.

Now, in this case, it may not happen soon, she may change her mind -- but the fact that the same problems are emerging, and that OW is even thinking about leaving at this point says that things are shaky, at best.

Again, it's not necessarily "good news" for me -- in fact, I'm not sure what good news is at this point. But it certainly isn't what it appeared.

Keep in mind that you never really know what's going on within the A.

A.M.Martin,

Thank you very much for the encouraging words. I try not to believe what comes out of WS mouth and whenever I do have to see my WS due to kids, my WS looks a lot unhappier than they claim to be while being separated.

Wow, I didn't even realize how unhappy they appear until I just wrote that sentence and thought about it. So hopefully you are right and my WS realizes it too. Thanks again and take care. I would love to hear how it works out for you, if the OW really does leave. Good luck.

ABF