Hi,

You replied to ouchThisHurts post re: telling WS about the site.

You mentioned that you printed some things from a post by Trueheart and gave it to your WH. I can see that you have been a member for a while, so I am wondering if I will even be able to find that info from Trueheart's thread so I may read what you showed your WH.

I would be very very interested in seeing that info. I still have hope for my situation and WH. He seems a bit open to learning more about the Fog stuff and about what WS go through in the affair.

Could you please direct me in the right direction to obtain the info. that you showed your H which tore at his heart strings.

I would greatly appreciate it. And also if anyone else out there has similar info. like this, please reply. Thank you.

ABF

I cut and pasted the letter since not sure how to save the link...hope it helps!!

Dear WS's everywhere,

Thank you for taking the time and effort to read this letter. I am writing this in hopes that your BS has brought you here in order that you might understand you are not alone in your thoughts and feelings. It is intended to give you a measure of comfort and hope that you can feel safe as you come out the fog that has enveloped you so tightly over the past weeks, months, or years.

I do not know m any of you by name, nor do I know of all the details or circumstances surrounding your life, or your affair(s). What I do know is that we share two very important things in our lives and makes us somewhat connected as a WS. I am hoping that I can help you come back to the light, so that you can come back to the light that has, for so long, shielded you with that dense fog you may still be in.

The first thing that we share is the love of a person that totally, completely, and unconditionally stand by our side. Through thick and thin, for better or worse, in our darkest hours, we have someone that has always believed in us, and still does. They have put up with our lies, our anger, our accusations, and maybe in some cases verbal and/or physical abusiveness. They have watched us trash us the things they believed in more than anything in the world...our marriage, our vows, our trust and our love. In spite of it all, they see in us their hopes, their dreams, and their futures. They can't, nor do they want to, see themselves without us for the rest of their lives. They accept our imperfections and our infidelity as we have strayed from that which we know is wrong. They have continued to believe in us and want to help us right the ship and stay the course. They are willing to forgive us, grant us our mistakes, and come home to rebuild that life and make it better. They know they are not perfect, as well. They know they have made mistakes. They need us to open up, talk to them and give them answers so that they can learn, heal, and help repair the damage. They will accept their responsibility in these things. Can you? We, most of us, alsoe have children that look at us, and see only the love of a Mom or a Dad. They don't see us as imperfect, scared, or angry. They see us as a shelter, a safe haven where they can laugh, cry, hurt, be silly or serious, and tell us their fears or fantasies. We are their safety net when they fall. They look to us for answers in life, no matter how big or small the answers are. Our life changed, no matter much we didn't want it to when we helped create that life. We owe our children the best chance to learn from us. We owe them our unconditional, total, and complete love, so that they can start on the journey with as few bumps and bruises as possible. They look to you for truth in their lives. To deny them that chance, is a travesty. You took an oath, in your heart and mind, to protect and defend and teach YOUR child, as soon as they were created. So, you see, you have people in your life that believe in you, love you, accept you, want you, need you, cherish you, and the list goes on and on.

I know for a fact, that many of you, when with the OP, badmouth your spouse. You tell the OP how they do all the right things, fill you up, make you feel alive, do all the things your spouse does not, or used to do. You tell this person they are everything you ever wanted. They arouse you, they make you happy...interesting how you told your spouse that at one time too. And, the truth is, if you were to search your heart, you are not letting them do that now. They want to, they beg you to let them try...you justify your A, by telling them "I just don't feel that for you anymore", "I don't know if I want to be married anymore", "I dont know what I want", and a myriad of other flimsy reasons and excuses to buy time to spend with the OP. You give justifications that are so superficial they can't hold water. We even search our minds to think of everything that our spouse ever did, no matter how insignificant, how long ago it was, in order to make us feel better about cheating. We can find any reason to blame our spouse for US deciding and making a conscious choice to cheat and find a reason to say it is ok. What we should be doing is finding every reason for our BS to forgive us. We should be finding every reason to stay together, to come home, to make it right, to be a family...loving and supportive, forgiving and trusting. And you know what? Those reasons are there...everyday...the smile, the laugh, the tears, the love....they are there each and everyday!! Just look!!!

The second thing we share is the fact that we are all weak!! I know full well the pain, anger, frustration, fear, embarrassment, passion, fun, laughter, love, fear, and all the rest of the wide range of emotions of having an A. I know what is like to have that OP fill up your senses...so full and so fast you wonder how you ever made it without them. The sex is great, the passion is overwhelming, you can't wait to see them, touch them, hear them...all the while drifting further and further from your marriage...lost in the fog. NO matter how we justify it, that other person...is a cheater, as well. They know we are married and they choose to cheat with us. And in many cases, probably have before, and have told the other person they are with, all the same, exact things they tell us. "You are my soulmate" "you are the only one for me" etc etc. We have heard em all and said em all. We have been told they can make us happy "for the rest of our lives". WE have been so blinded by it all, that we give up family and friends we have had for years, in order for this OP to feel safe with us and convince them how we feel. We take all the energies that we don't use at home, and give them to someone "new". We spend money, time, and energy to build something with someone exciting, instead of spending that with someone that knows us and truly loves us. You see, the truth is, that we, both members of the affair, are very good at one thing....telling each other exactly what we want to hear. We put together elaborate speeches, write poetry, find mushy cards, send the "perfect" gifts, say the right things...all for this other person. Both of us continue to hone our "cheating" skills to the point of perfection. What ever happened to doing that to your spouse, instead of leaving them at the side of the road with a flat tire? We have derailed their entire life and emotionally checked out...in order to make us feel better about the affair. That simply isn't right. We took years to build something. We may have taken several years to weaken the foundation of it. But in one simple night of lust, and that is what it is, lust, we tried to destroy it. If we truly "loved" this person, if we truly believed what we were doing is right, true, and good, there would be no indecision on our part. There would be no hesitancy at all. The bottom line is that, you can trust the person you are cheating with less than you can trust yourself. It is a proven fact that only 25% of all affairs ever make it. Deep down in your heart, you still love your spouse, and you know it. You don't want to give up the excitement and passion you have found. The truth is that your marriage will never again go back to what it was. The blind faith in each other is gone....it is replaced with doubt and fear. The wonderful thing is that you now have a chance to "rediscover" your spouse, your marriage, and your family. It is not as hard as you may think, but will take some dedication on your part. But the beauty of the whole thing is you will be stronger and more in love than you ever thought you could be. You create new memories, new routines, a new life. You re-commit, reinvest your time and energies in that which truly loves you. The truth is most affairs end when the OP either gets what they thought they needed from you, and even more of them end when the OP finds another WS. Oddly enough, you weren't enough for them either. In the end you are left with no loving spouse, no children, no family, no friends.....and your OP that was so steadfastly dedicated to you is off romping with "the love of their life". I know from whence I speak, my friends. I know of the pain, the sorrow, the hurt, the look in my childrens eyes when I left the house. I hear the sounds of my W crying, begging, pleading, and hurting. I now see what a fool I was. I now spend everyday, more happy than I ever thought I could be. If the world were to end tomorrow, she would know I loved her as no other. No, she won't ever forget about the A, and along the way, there will be things that will trigger her mind, but, she has forgiven. You need to talk to your spouse to help them. YOU are the only one that can help them. They need you, much more now than ever before. You have to swallow that pride of yours, for them to heal. You have to open your life up to them, and hide nothing. You have to make it about them. The affair was making it about you, so now you owe it to them, no matter how embarrassed you are, no matter how much you don't wnat to talk about it, to make it about them. Their piece of mind, their feelings are all that matter. They know, from being here, what they need to do in order to help meet your needs. It is now up to you, to learn what you need to do in order to meet theirs. And make no mistake about it, it will be hard work, but it is oh so worth it!! This person you married, is willing to work with you in order to show you the love you deserve!! Are you willing to work to show them how much you truly love them?? By being here, at Marriage Builders, they have shown that they are willing to adopt the principles that it takes to put their marriage back together. They have pledged their love, and even their support, to your recovery, as well as theirs. They have accepted the crumbs you have offered them, while knowing full well you were at the buffet with the other person in your life. You have one of the strongest, most committed, most wonderful, loving, and caring people in the world on your side. Don't expect them not be angry from time to time. Don't expect them to be perfect, let you off the hook, and not talk about it with you. They need and want to understand you and all the things surrounding what happened. It is part of the healing process. What you can expect is love, honesty, and the rebuilding of your marriage. They know what it takes to make things work now. They also know that they, as well as you, have to be stronger than ever before in their life, if this is going to work. That is why they are still here...they understand. They even know, that you may backslide in the beginning, but are willing to deal with that, in order to preserve and protect that which they believe in ......YOU. I implore you, WS, burn off the fog. See the sand that is your foundation for the affair. There is no solid basis for this relationship..it is all smoke and mirrors that reflects this "love" you have found. Run, do not walk, back home and give your marriage all the energy, gifts, poems, cards, and love that you have given to the affair. The results are remarkable. But you have to be willing to be honest with yourself, first of all. You have to admit there is a problem, and you have to be willing to fix it, with your spouse, a counselor, whatever or whoever it takes to fix it. You have to be willing to want to be there in mind, body, and spirit. You will find a love more wonderful than anything you knew before.

I hope this helps, in some way, to show you what life can be after an affair. I know that I am blessed with the most wonderful person. I was given the opportunity to feel what life was like without her, and it was not what I wanted. I found the answers I sought...I found them both here, and in her arms. I can only hope, that in some small way, you find the same thing, and that I helped the fog to lift. If you ever wish to talk to someone who understands what we WS go through, then feel free to write me...trueheart42@hotmail.com. There is a path back home. You need only choose it! Keep the faith!

*Out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds!*

Trueheart

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Forevertogether,

I was out of town, but I just read your response from Trueheart.

It was truly inspirational and hopeful for me. It made me cry. I will be showing it to my WS and ask that they read it while I wait, and hopefully get their thoughts on it right away.

I will keep you posted. What Trueheart said is so incredibly true and poignant. It really pulled at my heartstrings FOR my WS.

Again, thank you so so much.

ABF

Forevertogether,

Hi, it has been 2 months since I received your post from Trueheart. I did print it out and asked my WH to read it. He said he would read it but not at that moment in front of me.


Oh, so so much has happened since then. I regret to say that we are in the middle of the big Divorce.

Little recap here. On 9/2/03 we had counseling and WH was no where near a decision to work on us. I must have pushed a bit too hard. I sensed he was going to leave me for the OW, so I spoke with my attorney. On 9/8/03 I informed the OW's husband who was basically clueless and appreciative of my call. That did not make the OW happy at all that I was the one that told her spouse. On 9/9/03, on the advice from my attorney, I closed a home equity line of credit which my WH was going to use for down pymt. on his new house. WH calls immediately and asks whats up and why. I said my atty. said we should not take on anymore debt since he doesn't know what he wants. My WH said, "Well, we ARE getting a divorce". We had 1 or 2 heated arguments on the phone that day. WH called me uncooperative which set me off yelling into the phone. We still went to counseling that night, but never made it into the room with the counselor. My WH provoked me and goated me until I lost it. I slapped and hit him a couple of times and screamed at him. 2 counselors including ours came out and settled things down. Despite them trying to convince WH not to, my WH called the police and I was arrested. How humiliating. At that moment, my heart turned to stone. The next day I arrived home to find every financial paper in our house gone, our computer, and all weapons etc. along with a whole slew of other items that he took. I had the locks changed the very next day. I also filed for divorce then, but only since he said we are getting one. I thought why not start the process myself.

A lot has happened since then too, but none for the better. I have truly been on the longest roller coaster ride of my life in these past 2 months.

After reading what has happened, do you or anyone else out there reading this still think there is anything left to salvage here. Only a small part of my heart is alive for my WH yet mainly since I just can't seem to let go.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks
FF

I am so sorry to hear what has happened. I feel so badly for you and your children.

Where is your H now? Did OW leave her H once you told him? Are they going to try and work on their M?

What type of relationship did you have with your H pre-A and pre-kids? Were you ever able to really talk to him, about anything? If so maybe you could put aside all the LBing and try to just talk to him. Tell him your sorry for your actions, that you reacted out of pain and anger. Ask him to please open up to you and let you know what's going on in his head.

Does he come to see the kids? Is he a good father? Can you appeal to him from the level that even if you divorce you'll always be in each other's life because of the kids, so you need to talk and repair the relationship at least to some degree.

There is a good section in the book Torn Asunder on needing to recover the relationship to some degree even if you divorce...for the sake of the children. If you haven't read that book I'd recommend it...author is Dave Carder.

How is his relationship going with the OW? Are they out of fantasy land yet?

What do you want? Do you still love him? Do you still want him? Are you willing to do whatever it takes, even stop LBing?

I know you said the two of you never really made it to MC but are you in IC? If not that'd be another good place to start.

Stay strong and work on you!

WOW! This is some fantastic stuff! I personally would like to thank you, forevertogether, for taking the time to post this.

alwaysbeenfaithful...would you consider re-titling this thread so as to invite in the WS's out there, to read the comforting words that forevertogether has written?

It might just give some of them the courage they need to end the A and consider trying to work on rebuilding the M.

If nothing else, it might encourage them to post here and get more support.

Thanks!

*S*

forevertogether,

Thanks for replying.

My WH is currently living 30 minutes from me. He bought the house in mid Oct. and the OW moved in the next week with her daughter from her marriage. So, yes, OW left her H relatively soon after I told him about the A. Here is our relationship before the A. We married fresh out of college, had a lot of fun. We argued some but not much about our families (growing up styles) being so different, but that is about it. We had our first of 3 kids after 2 yrs married. Then once the 2nd kid was born, this became the starting point (which I only found out recently) of his unhappiness. I was able to talk with my H when we first met and for the first 3 years of our marriage I would say. But once the 2nd kid arrived, parenting was demanding more of me which since he didn't help too much (or as much as I felt I needed) I thus ended up carrying the brunt of the parenting and household duties. We still had a lot of good times though. We had a 3rd kid then. He was not as enthused to have another as I, but I even struggled with the decision. Then things really started to fade. He lost his job 9 months after the 3rd arrived and he emotionally went downhill after that.

I believe I could just sit him down and tell him I'm sorry, but since I don't believe he is out of the FOG yet, I am not sure if it would pay at this point yet. However, I did find out that he is angry at me for not telling him I'm sorry for hitting him, so maybe it would be the thing that could stir something up.

My H does have visitation with the kids every Wed. night for 3 hours and every other weekend. He can be a good dad when he gives them the undivided attention he seems to be able to give the OW. He is a good dad with the time he did spend with the kids. He is not as much of a kids person as I am. he also feels since I was staying at home, that I should be the one to do all the child rearing and all the household things and still if I was working.

I do feel we will be able to (at least I hope) have a decent relationship if divorce happens for the sake of the kids. I do want at least that, but it will take time.

As far as I know his relationship with OW is going fine. Since I don't ask him or my kids, and my kids don't say much, I guess I really don't know. I am increasingly becoming curious as to if the grass on the other side is turning yellow at all. What I do know is that the OW's 9yo kid is an only child and is getting a wake up call to how young 3yo's get into their things. This doesn't seem to sit well w/OW's kid.

I am not sure if they are out of fantasy land yet. However, since last Monday (when I signed the temporary relief divorce order) my WH did not even step out of his house to receive the kids this past time which I cant figure out why. Is he maybe surprised that I went through with at least the 1st phase of the divorce? Or maybe he is feeling sad possibly and doesn't want me to see it in his face.

What do I want? Well, at first after my arrest, I didn't want reconciliation, but after going through 5/10 anger management sessions, my heart is rekindling or softening again and me signing those temp. papers was difficult. Since then, I have missed him greatly and am seeing how difficult this is on my kids upon returning from his house each time, is almost unbearable.

I believe I do still love him, but it may be a different kind or level. I also think I love the husband I once knew before having kids more than the one I have seen since if that makes sense.

I do still want him, but many things would have to change. I believe I now can work on stopping the LBing. I think that when I slapped and hit him (it was the outlet of the past 7 months of pent up hurt and anger since the first DD that came hurling out at him).

We did make it to at least 4 MC sessions and I think that would have been our 5th or 6th. I have resumed IC with that same MCounselor about 4 weeks ago. It's going okay, but I'm not sure what the MC should be doing or instructing me to do if anything. I have felt for a long time that she doesn't give any suggestions of things to work on for me or for us, but rather just listens. Is that the case with all MC or do I just have a not so good one. From what I told Steve Harley in the 2 sessions I had with him, he said our MC wasn't doing her job or a good one anyway. I thought many times about changing, but she is the only one who knows my WH and the whole situation, so it would be tough for me to switch at this point maybe.

One last issue, I have a letter drafted up for my attorney but don't know if I should send it. It states that I don't think I can emotionally get myself to go through with the divorce as the petitioner, that I just can't let go, I miss him and what we once (life well before DD) had too much.

Does anyone think I should just put a stop to the divorce and if he truly still wants the divorce, then he would have to proceed. I feel I want to stop the filing process, but I guess that's a question to ask my atty. if it's possible which I believe it is. OR do I just sit my WH down and talk to him telling him my thoughts and ask if he agrees to just be legally separated (and I wait for him which I wouldn't know if I should tell him that).

I am pretty confused right now and don't know which road to travel. I believe I will send the letter to my atty.

I will also be posting a brand new thread telling my story. This is because I am on my 3rd username for this site. I used to be alwaysbeenfaithful and also pandjwillsurvive for those of you who were wondering what happened to those members.

Thanks for all who read this. I know it's long, but I've been away from the site for a while.

FF