I need the truth on what really happened???/ Physically and Emotionally, h won't reveal, I get bs stories, and that is it... he says it will hurt me too much and that is it it, sticks to his bs.

I feel I cannot reconcile without the truth... anyway to get it out of him?

H

<small>[ September 06, 2003, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

I think there is a large 2x4 some where on the this message board.

Beyond that I also would love to know the secret. Other than the words "I'am leaving, I'm sorry, There is someone else and his name is backstabber" I've gotten my details from OM wife.

I think for many WS there may be some truth as not wanting to hurt the BS but mostly it's there inability to admit what there doing or did. Denial and shame.

Much like an alcoholic knows what they are and are doing but they never really recover until they can stand up and say "Hi my name is "X" and I'm and alcoholic" allowing them to come to terms with who they are and releasing the shame.

You may have felt similar in respects to being a victim of the affair. I know I felt ashamed and guilty for my WW affiar but when I told family and friends it was a great relief.

I got what I think was "half" of the truth from my H by appealing to his selfish side.

I told him that his secrets were like a big rottenness that ate him from the inside. That I wished for him the gift of being able to let that go by telling the truth. That by releasing those things that I hold inside makes my heart feel lighter, my shoulders not so heavy, and I'm able to feel joy again.

I also promise amnesty, that I'm not going to yell, scream, get mad, just listen and ask questions. That this was a gift to me too.

Honey,

U need t/b patient. I know it feels like an eternity but in reality it isn't. It feels like a majory portion of your life has been mauled and it has but not beyond your ability to repair it.

His honesty will come when he is ready to be honest with himself first, then you. Do you know when he is giving you BS vs the truth?

Here's a hint:
1. When he tells you something that just doesn't smell or sound right, ask him if he would believe it coming from someone else? Watch his reaction.

2. Pray for a clear mind, patience and a calm heart. The act accordingly.

3. Realize that he has a lot to heal before he can even lend you or the children a helping hand. Give him that time. It is pre-recovery for most Ws'.

4. Know that there is hope but not a solution today. Don't let your 'need' to know become your obession.

5. Count your blessing. Hug them.

take care,
L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Honey:
<strong>I need the truth on what really happened???/ Physically and Emotionally, h won't reveal, I get bs stories, and that is it... he says it will hurt me too much and that is it it, sticks to his bs.

I feel I cannot reconcile without the truth... anyway to get it out of him?

H</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you two close to reconciliation? Does he want to reconcile?

Here's an article from Dear Peggy. It may or may not help... Kinda long....

The "Need to Know"
by Peggy Vaughan

Why we need answers to our questions

When learning of our partner's affair, most of us feel an intense "need to know" - asking questions to try to make some kind of sense out of what has happened.

Here's an excerpt about this from my book, The Monogamy Myth

"When a person discovers their mate is having an affair, their world suddenly turns upside down. In order to recover any sense of balance, they need to get more information and understanding of the situation. Without answers to their questions, they convince themselves that the answers must all be bad; otherwise why wouldn't they be told what they want to know. They feel they're being treated like a child, and they resent it.

"If the information didn't exist, it wouldn't be so frustrating and demeaning. But they know their partner has it, and simply refuses to give it to them. This makes a balance of power in the relationship impossible... It's doubtful if trust can ever be restored in a relationship where this persists.

"I remember how tough it was on my husband when I continually asked more and more questions. Intellectually, I wanted to move on and get over it, but emotionally I needed the ongoing support and understanding he gave me. It was extremely important that he never said, "enough is enough, let's get on with our lives." Of course, nobody would choose to go through the thousands of hours of talking about this if there were some other way. In my own case, I think it was an essential part of overcoming my feelings and finding peace of mind."

(end of excerpt from "The Monogamy Myth")

While I have consistently heard this same thing from thousands of people during the past 20 years, there's still a great reluctance on the part of those who have had affairs to answer questions and to continue talking about the whole situation. Unfortunately, there has also been a large segment of the therapeutic community that has reinforced the idea that too many questions and too much talking is not for the best.

I now have statistical data that demonstrates the connection between honest communication and both staying married and recovering. I have posted some results from my Research Questionnaire that may help people see the importance of respecting this "need to know."

While it's important to get answers to your questions IF you ask questions, this does NOT mean you "should" ask questions unless/until you really want to know. It's just that it's essential to get answers if you DO ask.

While for most people, "getting answers to your questions" is a key ingredient in rebuilding the trust and building a strong marriage, no one should be forced to hear things they don't want to hear. But if they DO want to hear details, they deserve to have their questions answered. It's the WILLINGNESS of the partner to answer questions that is so critical, not whether or not you ASK for the answers.

So each person needs to decide for themselves the timing of when/what/how much they want to know. (It's important to determine that you really want the truth, and are not just hoping for some kind of reassurance or disclaimers.) For most people, "not knowing" is worst of all - because their imagination fills in the blanks and the wondering never ceases.

Joseph's Letter

I want to share a beautiful example of a letter one man wrote in his effort to get his wife to answer his questions. This was originally posted on my BAN Message Board before it was closed. While I didn't keep any of the messages posted on that board, this was so exceptional that I got Joseph's permission to include it in "Peggy's Forum" so it could continue to be accessed by people who didn't read his original posting.

So I'm including it here as a clear statement of the "need to know," as well as a clear explanation of why you ask the questions:

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

Superb article, lost. Thanks for posting it!

Thank all of you for your replies.... yes it is still..., still, pre, pre, recovery. ... for now counseling is not in session and I am not happy with that... but the counselors had reached an impasse with how we do our relationship so to speak... so that is kind of hard.... but I do respect them, and we might resume, that is hard to say.... we had an impasse and a big bang of an argument... things are calmer now and resuming courtship of a sort which is a bit nice... but I am still impatatient, and cannot wait forevever... also my need to know is a big worry on my part.

Thanks for the thoughts. I always get the same story that no real sf happened which I find very very hard to believe. Anyway, I can't think real clearly tonite to type... my mind is wandering a lot and my typing is not doing well as I am tired as I get up early.

Anyway, thanks for the opinions, I may even share that nice letter with wh. I do think it might help.

thanks again... I find it hard to believe we would not reconcile, but I also find it hard to believe my h will ever be the h was in the past, and can I live with who he is now, no!.... and who will he be????

Thanks, H

Dear Honey,

I would like to emphasize was StillHereMakingIt said about promising not to react badly to what you hear. My H started to answer my questions, but unfortunately, I would become agitated, upset, and angry about the things he said. So, he stopped telling me anything and, like your H, said it was hurting me too much and there was no point to put me through more pain.

Like you, I felt I needed to know. First, I gave him a little bit of time. Second, I made an opportunity for us to spend quality time together, alone, in a peaceful setting where we could talk quietly. Third, I promised that no matter what he told me I would not get angry. I reassured him that it was over and done with but that I needed to put some things into perspective.
And Fourth -- to me the biggest thing -- I kept my promise.

Honey, it was very hard sometimes to hear intimate details about his relationship with another woman. But, I forced myself to listen as if I was a friend of his and was outside of the situation just giving advice. It was very effective and the fact that I kept my promise and did not get angry gave him courage to open up a bit more with me. But it was possibly the hardest thing I had to do throughout this horrid ordeal.

That letter from Dear Peggy is awesome. I printed a copy some time ago and used it to explain my need to know to my H.

Good luck.
heavenly

Thanks to all of you, doing a little better, coming up from the sadness... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ... there is hope for me.

Anyone willing to talk on the phone that has achieved recovery ? Please email lisaannsmail@yahoo.com Seriously.... I am coming out of depression, almost chronic I believe, my h says if I act happy he will want to be with me, sad but true. I know it it not all me... alot him. I am so sad not to know the truth of the A, it truly deterioriates me, sp? I know I am rolling in depression over what he has done .... our marriage was so so special and he took that and just walked all over it, stomped all over it... that is... ah, what can I say. I fell so deeply in love at 17, I am 35, and I cannot fall out of love. I love him and I want our marriage. I want our family, and I will fight for it.... fight, fight, fight. I am tired of the battle, tired, tired, tired. I want to be a happy girl again.

I need our love, and I think he does too.

Anyway, I tire of the lonlieness and I think he does too.

I have to go do some work, work work. I tire of the single motherhood witch is too much... for me. I need my man. Anyway, too much for me. If he is not going to love me, I need to know. by for now.

honey, that is what he called me, always.

H

Honey,
He wants you to act happy? What does this mean to him?

Chuckles the clown?
Steve Martin in manic mode?
Catherine Zeta Zones at the Oscars?
Or just Honey not lovebusting?

You can act happy maybe, but I suspect part of the impasse is his attitude, I'd prefer to see him saying "I'll stop the behaviors that are negative to our relationship and try to please you, Honey."

I think you'd prefer that too. He continues to think selfishly, not fix his mistakes, and blame you because you aren't happy. You can't be happy with or about him because he's selfish and badly behaved.

Do I have the gist of the impasse?

I read on Terri's thread you are considering Plan B. I think that's a good choice at this point. When you are not there to blame, maybe your H will finally see that he causes many of his own troubles. You already know that he has to be the one to fix himself. All you can do is be the best Honey you can be.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Honey}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>

Honey,

He can't control your happiness any more than you can control his. You can mention things to each other but the show of emotions belongs to each of us individually.

He sounds like he is still trying to control you. Have his way with you and it seems you are liking it. In reality it will hinder or halt any recovery.

Why? Because those actions will enable his attitude which still needs adjusting. At least for now.

So......let him know something like: 'When I am happy you will know it. Can't be that way 24/7 or I will be nuts but the realy me has happy and sad moments. That's what makes me special. Howz about you, H?'

JMHO,
L.

From my own experience I can tell you that if he doesn't talk to you, you'll repress it and it will hit big time later on. Perhaps you're different than I and can handle it.
My H's first A he lied to me about who, where, when, how long, etc. Said it was a drunken ONS.
18 yrs later I found out the truth and it put me in turmoil, deep depression and doctors care for 5 yrs! There is one man here who can lie all of his life and it doesn't even phase him. So I'm sure there are many more out there!
We're married 31 yrs now, and after all that first one put me through, he used my depression as an excuse to do it again, only worse!
Nice payback to me, wasn't it?
If I had it all to do over again, the first one was 1978, I would have gone through with my plan to leave since he wouldn't give me what I needed.
He did promise never again, sorry, repentant, remorse. Then I found out none of it was sincere.
Counselors may well tell you to drop it, that you don't need details. I got a lot of that.
The problem is they don't live inside my body and have no idea what I need to move forward or to heal.
All I know to say is if it starts to eat at you constantly, nag at you, and you feel yourself going into depression and find your health failing, give an ultimatum. We are entitled to the details, they aren't entitled to privacy of that sort.
Some here can close it out and just go on never wanting to know. I'm not one of them.
Analyze you carefully. When it starts to effect your health badly, you have to put yourself as number 1 priority.
This truly goes beyond trivial matters to shove under the rug. It's life changing, and it can destroy you bit by bit over the years.
I saved my marriage, but not me! It has never been worth what I've been through just to have someone physically in my life.
A marriage with secrets is worse than a cancer.
I still have one unresolved issue harming me here. He has until early spring to correct it. Only because I want to pay for my own way out so I have to wait. Otherwise, I'd walk now.
He's had 2 yrs now to resolve this. But I see him waiting like he did before, and putting me through the same crap.
My health has become number one, and I know what it will do to me to go on without resolution.
If you have a need, get it fulfilled. If one refuses to do that for you after all the pain and suffering through an A, then they're not worth the time of day in my opinion.
People who love their spouses do what is best for them and that means having to bare their soul, then they do it.
Otherwise, it's still all about their selfishness, and their feelings being put first.
He lost that right when he did what he did to me. Discomfort for them is nothing compared to what it does to us.
Good luck, LouLou