Hi everyone,

I feel incredibly humbled to be asking for some 'urgent' help tonight. Never have done so in the year I've been here.

As many of you know, I'm the former WS who's now divorced due to my A. I've been divorced for over a year now, and I ended the A before my divorce was final. ExH and I separated almost THREE years ago. (18 year marriage when we separated)

He did tell me at the end of July that he was FINALLY considering a reconciliation. He said he'd make 'baby steps'. This was a huge thing for him to say, but not much progress since.

I just saw him briefly this evening, for two minutes. I hadn't seen him in a week at all, nor had I really spoke with him.

I feel so lonely at times, it is like I"m back to square one. I felt that by now there might be more progress.

Does anyone have any suggestions at all? I do feel he looks at me more now, but that's it.

I came home to an empty house as DSs were leaving to do something with him. DD is at college now.

I never wanted this life, and yet I got myself into this lonely place. It's misery to know you put yourself in such a place.

I felt very down this weekend, and it's like I'm feeling worse again, instead of better.

Thanks for listening. If any of you have any thoughts, please send them to me.

I've been coming here a YEAR and am so pleased that I've made a wee bit of progress. ExH hasn't dated at all. I'm okay waiting, it's just very hard. All suggestions are most welcome!

God bless,
HP

<small>[ September 17, 2003, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

Dear HP,

Although I have no good advice--because I have screwed my own life up plenty. But just read your post and want you to know that I will say a prayer for you tonight...asking the Lord to bring you strength, peace and patience. The Lord works in mysterious ways--and in His own timing. That's what's so hard....but keep asking God to give you strength to follow His path.

If you are feeling lonely tonight you should visit us ladies at the ladies chat-----do you know how to get there? I have found the company, humor and wisdom to be comforting.

Take care and blessings to you.

How about you calling him up and asking him if he and your S would like a pizza? If he says 'no thanks' then you've really lost nothing, but if he says 'sure, come on over' then you've gain an opportunity to spend some quality time with him.

H_P,

Let's see one has left for college. One is with exH. Is this sort of the cause of your feelings?

Now I know this may not be something you could do, but I suspect it is something you really need to consider. If you have relatives or friends give them a call and do something with them. OR you could call exH and ask him to meet you somewhere cause you need to talk about... FOOTBALL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That should shock him.

H_P, be with friends, but also consider asking your H for a favor. He has never turned you down, has he? I suspect you are down because your house is empty and it is hard to get used to that. Your H has gotten used to it, probably because he has had 3 years to do it.

I don't think your feelings change one bit the progress that you have made, so don't despair on that count OK? Just focus on what is bothering you, and I suspect it is simply loneliness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So if that is the case, get a good book, go out to a library or bookstore, have a cup of coffee, what ever. Heck, just call H and ask him about something (that splinter in your eye for instance <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

Hang in there H_P.

God Bless,

JL

hi hopeful one,
i don't have any great advice for you as i'm going through my own (self created) hell right now...but i did feel like i wanted to post to you and let you know what an inspiration you have been to me...my A was A LOT like yours, the only difference is that things were stopped short (very short) of him moving here to my area..i am married and my H didn't and doesn't know about the A...it just helps me a lot to read your posts and know that i am not alone..

i do have a thought though...does anyone think that hopeful would benefit from a kind of 'modified for the WS' plan B?...it seems her H is receptive to her, any thoughts about how her 'detaching" from him a bit would help him to perhaps see that he misses her and give her a chance?

Hopeful Person,
I don't have much advice, except that as hard as it is, you are going to have to just put down the reigns of this and give it all to God if you want things to go the way they should. Some people don't like religious posts on here, and I am not trying to start any of that, I am simply saying you sound like a person who is seeking true help who loves God and loves her ex-husband and wants to do right by both.So just pray about it in these dark, lonely times. I know that is much easier said than done. I so wanted to control the outcome of my situation, I finally gave it up. I knew i couldn't control it. I could only do what was best for me and take care of me and my actions. I don't know if your ex would feel pushed if you called about a pizza. I am not sure on that. In some ways I think that would be ok, in some I think that he might feel like he just wanted to spend time with DS since he misses out on some time with him. You know about that better than I would.
I want to say something real quick too about Dreamcatcher. Dreamcatcher, I think hopeful person will tell you this too, but you HAVE to tell your H about your A if you are going to ever truly have an honest relationship with him. It will hurt, but the truth will eventually set you freer than you are now. And back to hopeful person, I would not go a modified Plan B because your ex is finally coming around. I don't think that is necessary. I am sorry you are so lonely and that you are in pain right now. I will pray for you to find peace in this situation, however it turns out, and that you will be able to completely forgive yourself.
Take care.

Hi H_P,
You have some very good suggestions here. I won't make any suggestions, but just add a thought or two.

Remember that we all get these thoughts, even sometimes when we are with someone in a good relationship.

Remember that tomorrow is a new day, and you won't feel like this forever.

Remember that we think about you, and we care, even if we can't talk to you in person. (but maybe someday?)

All of us make mistakes that we pay for one way or another, you are not the only one. We can all recover if we continue to do the right thing, and if we don't give up. If I was a betting person, I would say you will recover. I give you a much better chance that even odds at finding happines again.

See you again.

SS

Hopeful-

He is just scared. You know I think about my situation wishing I was in his. He loves you very much, but what is left of this man's ego understands that it would take swallowing a considerable amount of pride with the possibility
of losing you all over again.

Hopeful, he loves you he is just scared. Trust me

Bump for hopeful- how are you??

hopeful. obviously H self esteem and pride has been injured greatly, not to mention his heart!
Why is it to wait for him to come around? Since he is the BS, wouldn't it achieve more for you to start asking him out?
Start with the baby steps. Theater? Dinner. To play tennis or golf or whatever hobby you might share.
As a BS I see this as the WS having to let me know they regret and miss me! I consider the WS the one to make the moves, not the BS.
Without smothering his space, of course. You could try and what have you got to lose by trying?
Since he's taking son for visits, why don't you suggest a family outing together sometime?
All I know is if my H and I were separated or divorced, with him being the WS, he'd have to come looking for me. Not the other way around.
LouLou

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for your replies last night, and tonight. I read them last night, but didn't sign on to respond. I got myself busy around my house, and called up a friend I hadn't spoken with in months. She'd retired from my place of employment, so it was good to reach out and catch up with her.

Tonight ExH took the boys to dinner again. I told him in a phone call this morning that I would like help with the computer, and he said he'd come in and do it tonight when he ret'd the boys. He was here with me, in the small computer den for about 90 minutes. He didn't want anything to drink or eat, but he helped me well beyond the call of duty. It was something I needed for my job, and he's an expert in this particular area. I had two chairs in here, but at first he stood. Finally he did sit. It was so nice because he even did MORE than I would have expected. I did touch his shoulder and arms a few times, but nothing more. I feel a lot of 'tension' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and my desire is to simply be physically near him, but I don't wish to scare him off or anything like that.

If he truly wanted nothing to do with me, would he have spent all this time doing this computer thing for me? We chatted here and there, but I know he likes to work on things in a silent sort of way, so we did sit in silence a lot. That's fine by me too.

Later on this week we are taking our son together to do something he needs to do. It will force exH and I to be alone again as our son has an appt during the time frame. I'd asked exH to come along with us a few weeks ago, and he agreed. It gets tough always taking the kids alone to everything important in their lives. I sure hope it goes well tomorrow. I asked him tonight directly if he could pick us up, instead of us meeting him at the place. He agreed to it! (you're right, JL)

So things are okay, it's just I want my life back as it was! You know, I wonder if this is a common WS feeling. It's like this never happened, for me. DOn't know if that makes sense, but that's how I feel in many ways.
Now for your replies:
Strugglin to do Right,
Thanks for your good thoughts and prayers. It is greatly appreciated, and it DID help!

Thanks for the LadiesChat invitation, too!
Coffeeman
The pizza was a good idea, except that he and our sons had gone out of town for the evening AND out to dinner. I should invite him over casually sometime, but the rejection sends me very downward spinning. Does that make sense? It's easier to remain passive.
Just Learning
You're right, my loneliness is in part due to 'empty nest' syndrome. Absolutely.

It's also though that over time the realization comes to me that I put myself in this lonely place. He and I could share so much now, together, and we're apart. IT's just so sad to me, so I don't dwell on it as it is very painful.

I did take your advice and called that old girlfriend from work. That helped a lot. Didn't talk about me one bit, or my 'troubles'--that's how I like it.

You're right, he doesn't turn me down often. I think in time he will be able to meet me, just because. It is just going to take time.

Again, my feelings DONT change the progress I've made. Thanks for pointing that out.

Dreamcatcher

It's interesting to hear that your A was a lot like mine. I don't wish to preach, but I think you should tell your H about it, and follow Harley's principle of Radical Honesty, etc. Just my thought, without being 'bossy'.

Thanks for your reply. I don't think Plan B is right in my case as my exH didn't have the affair, so I don't wish to withdraw from him. We have made progress, it's just been slow.

Adgirl
Thanks for your reply, and for your bump up. It's nice to be thought of!!!

YOu said, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't have much advice, except that as hard as it is, you are going to have to just put down the reigns of this and give it all to God if you want things to go the way they should. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you, thanks for reminding me. I'm a Christian so I am 'fine' with religious references. I feel I am giving it to the Lord, and I feel that if He were right here in the room, He would tell me to do as I've been doing. Repent, ask forgiveness and wait it out.

I feel incredible love for my exH, and nothing can change that. That, I feel, is 'real'--and in time he'll feel something again soon.

Still SEeking
Thanks for your kind words and encouragement. It meant so very much to me last night, and it still does now.

All of you are greatly appreciated. Thanks so much for your help, words, and caring.

HP

Hopeful person, I think you are definitely on the right path and it is wonderful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .
Your husband sounds like he is coming around, I think he sounds like he just needs to continually know that you WILL be there, you won't leave, you will be patient, and you will be trustworthy.
Time will help all of that. Take care.

Thanks, Adgirl for your response. I appreciate your help very much!

The appt that one of your sons had this morning went okay, and that meant that exH, son and I were all together for about 3 hours. It went very well, it was in fact actually not much different than when we were married. Very comfortable, friendly, and there was much laughter too that we shared. I touched him on the arm several times, but that was it!

ExH and I were alone awhile too, and that was fine. At one point I beckoned him to move over to the chair next to me, and he did! (instead of on the chair five feet away. I would NEVER ask any other male to do this.) I noticed that when he and I were ALL ALONE and sitting that close he didn't look me in the eyes at all, I guess it feels 'safer' to look at me when DS is around and when we're far apart. So be it, that's fine, and is understandable.

I really feel more 'hopeful', but yet it is hard to be patient when I just wish he were back here with the kids and me. I tend to be a spontaneous person and I just want to act on my feelings NOW. I know though that he's not ready for that at all. In time, I think it will come to pass.

He actually initiated conversation today, and told me of an upcoming invitation he and the boys had to a party. I wanted to say, "Could I go too?" But then I realized that would be out of line since I don't even know the people.

As many have said, it's God's timing. That helps me to be more patient.

Thanks to all for your help and wise words,
HP

Hi H_P

Wow, making such good progress, but still wanting more -
It makes me laugh. - good kind of laughter. This is positive teasing ......... I think it is very good that you remain upbeat, want more, and continue to work for improvement. It means you will continue to make progress, at least I think so.

I should invite him over casually sometime, but the rejection sends me very downward spinning. Does that make sense? It's easier to remain passive.

Easier to sit indoors and watch TV too. But flower gardens only grow if planted. Don't' look at it as rejection, look at it like this: some seeds sprout, some don't. If you plant enough seeds, you will get a garden even if many don't grow.

I know one of your big worries is timing. Since he is often willing to help, ask for help with your bigger needs, but give him an out that he can take if he needs one.

"I know these last few years have been hard on you, they have been hard on me too. I have sought Gods forgiveness, and I have sought yours also, and there is something you can do to help me with this. Could you bring yourself to give me a hug? It would really help me today. Please don't feel like you have to, I mean, I don't want to push you, but I can use all the help I can get. Is that all right?"

Or keep it simple:

" Oh, I have been trying so hard, please help me a little bit. Could you give me a hug? Just a little one? It won't hurt me if you are not ready yet, and you day no, but I had to ask - OK?

You would know much more than I when the time is right, and I am not trying to tell you what to say or do, just give ideas.

I suspect it would be a great help to you to get a hug.

I really feel more 'hopeful', but yet it is hard to be patient when I just wish he were back here with the kids and me. I tend to be a spontaneous person and I just want to act on my feelings NOW. I know though that he's not ready for that at all. In time, I think it will come to pass.

You are a thoughtful person, I tend to think this last little bit says a lot about how much you have processed the events of the last few years, and what your state of mind is. Have you thought about what will be the biggest difficulty when you are back living with him again? Will that be different for both of you? Is there anything you can do now, to make that easier?

He actually initiated conversation today, and told me of an upcoming invitation he and the boys had to a party. I wanted to say, "Could I go too?" But then I realized that would be out of line since I don't even know the people.

Throw a party for someone that you both know, and see if he will come. Hint, Birthdays work well for this. Many people are having end of summer barbecues right now. I bet you can think of something that the boys would feel good attending that he would consider attending with them.

Ball games?
School functions?
I bet you have thought about them all by now, what do you think?

It is so good to see your hope increase. It is good to see your attitude remain positive and upbeat even though you are sometimes lonely. It would be very hard not to have faith in you. I know you have doubts sometimes, never act in the middle of those feelings. Just as the sun comes up each morning, your hope will return if you will wait for the dark feelings to end. I suspect you know by now that God loves you. If that's true (and it is) then he'll help.

SS

PS,
You may want to consider changing the title of your thrread now. Every time I come, I worry about you all over again, until I realize it is the same one from a few days ago, not a new one.

Thanks SS for the wonderful reply. I'd say more now, but I need to prepare for out of town guests.
Almost always something going on here, thankfully!

Your reply brought tears to my eyes. I'm glad you see me as thoughtful even though I did mess up so royally.

I truly wish I could convey to all BSs how crazy an A can make someone feel, and the way I was drawn into it after so many years of marriage. It was like an insidious virus that took over my life and turned me into someone I didn't know for awhile.

Sometime I wish to post about what exactly brought me 'out of' the fog. They were both actually tangible things I remember, and they were things that worked on my subconscious mind in a way.

Thanks again for your help and support.

Have to run now,
HP

I've just started following your thread so forgive me if you've written at length about this...

What have you done in the way of making up or apologizing to him? What have you done to help establish trust again? Perhaps he is waiting for you to ask to come back...

dear hopeful_person,

I was wondering how you were doing, and here you are.

Do you remember the letter I wrote on this forum to jen brown's husband? Well, I hope you do not mind, but here is one for your husband, too.

"Dear Mr. hopeful_person,

Pay attention to ME. I know from whence I speak!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that it is fitting that I am writing this letter on the anniversary of the death of so many people who will never see their families again. I would like to know if that is what you want, too.

I am, JUST LIKE YOU, a betrayed spouse. My wife left me for my close friend, begain a new life and has now moved to Alaska with him. I do not think that she is ever coming back, and so I sit here alone on yet another upcoming weekend while YOU have the opportunity for real LOVE!

Frankly, I find your attitude repugnant. I know that you are hurt, hurt beyond anything you might have thought possible before this whole thing started, however, YOU and only YOU have the power to mend this marriage and start a new and wonderful life, a life of which I can only dream!!!!!!!!!

As I asked you above if you want a family. Well, do you? Do you want your wife and a mended family or do you want to be alone? I AM ALONE, and when I see a man who has the chance that you have, a chance to have something that I am now even afraid to dream of, I want to VOMIT!!!!!!!!!!! Looking at what you have and what you COULD have compared to what is string me in the face is like being desperately poor and watching another man tear up a winning lottery ticket, because he has so much money already that he just cannot be bothered!!!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry to be harsh, but this is GAULING!!!!!!

On this terrible anniversary remember these two things;

1) EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO LOST HUSBAND'S, WIVES, CHILDREN and other loved ones would GLADLY GIVE ANYTHING THEY HAVE TO BE IN YOUR POSITION AND YOU TREAT THIS SITUATION WITH AMAZING DISRESPECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2) Right now your wife is in the bad spot. She is the one who made a mistake and she is the one who has to live with that mistake. NOW, what if the unthinkable happened and your wife was lost forever; can you even begin to imagine the pain and regret you would go through, knowing that you had THE CHANCE OF A LIFETIME, and you blew it with no chance to change things?!!!! GET OFF THE POT AND LOVE YOUR WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sincerly,
Andy

Hi H_P,

Just came on to check on you and was glad to see things moving along. Maybe in your situation you cannot see the amount of progress made, but we who watch from afar can truly see it. It is wonderful. Just hang in there friend. Ex sounds like he is feeling more and more comfortable. He might have a relapse but give him time. I am sure he appreciates that you are respecting his wishes. Well thats about it I'm off to work. Have a good weekend and week. Keep the faith.

Sharon

Thanks to all of you who replied.

I saw exH briefly on Friday evening and he was warm (I'm comparing this to three months ago) and more important to me he warmly greeted my father who was visiting here. Last spring at a family member's funeral he didn't approach my parents at all, they went up to him and barely got a nod from him.

I have dreams about exH almost every night, nice ones where we're married again. I should remind him of that, but again I don't wish to pressure him about the way I feel and try to 'make' him feel the same way.

I still am amazed I had the nerve to beckon him to get up, move over, and sit next to me when we were waiting for our son on Thursday. I can't believe he did it, and plopped down next to me. I know that in the past he would have said he was fine where he was at.

Still Here Making It
Thanks for your reply. YOu asked me </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What have you done in the way of making up or apologizing to him? What have you done to help establish trust again? Perhaps he is waiting for you to ask to come back...

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You did say you just started following my thread, but just wanted to say in a very brief form that I have been asking for a chance for a very long time. I've apologized profusely over and over, literally begged him through sobs and without sobs, over and over. I've asked him to come back many, many times.

I ended the A before our divorce was final, and I haven't wavered in telling him I love him and that I regret deeply what I've done. I've treated him kindly, despite the fact that at many times this past year he's practically ignored my existence. (At times I'd pick up the children in front of his place and he'd not even give me even a wave.) It hasn't been easy, but I love him so much and I understand I've hurt him deeply.

Perhaps I'm wrong in saying this, but the only way I know to restore his trust at all is for him to see me as the stable, loving person I always was BEFORE the A. I told him many times that my love for him is unconditional, and if he doesn't feel it for me now, it doesn't stop my love for him.

Any suggestions on what more I could do? By the way, I'm glad that your situation is going well.

Here's my first post here way back if you want to read where things were at about a year ago. It also has a bit more on the whole mess I made.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=020225#000000

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Not by my will,

Thanks for your letter. It was very moving, to say the least. It certainly made me cry. I've told my exH (months ago) that life was precious and unpredictable and we had to try to make it better and not wait so long on everything, but it was to no avail. I've now learned to be a more patient person.

I wish I could convey some of your thoughts to my exH, but I know that it wouldn't change how he thinks or feels.

I feel only love and understanding for my exH , and I only have pain over what I did to him in having the A. I understand why he's so afraid of something new with me.

I wish he did see that having a second chance is a positive thing, but he can't see it yet. I wish he saw me as an 'opportunity for new love'.

It makes me sad that he doesn't, but I have to love him where he's at.

You know, you said, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you want your wife and a mended family or do you want to be alone? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I asked him this he paused a long time, and then he said he'd merely adapted to being alone.

It's just going to take time. I can't badger him into anything, but I so appreciate your point of view in all of this! Thanks for giving it, and I do hope that in time your exW will wake up too and see the truth in all of this. I don't see how an A can ever lead to a happy relationship with the OP, so don't think she's happy up there in Alaska.

BTW, I feel equally sad at times when I see BSs who want to forgive, and WSs who don't give up the A, and continue lying to their BSs. I don't think these WSs realize how lucky they are to have a forgiving spouse.

Thanks Andy for your words and encouragement.

SHARON ,
It was wonderful to hear from you! How are you doing? I hope all is going well with you and yours. Is your son doing better now?

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm sure you can see the progress--'the big picture'. At times it's hard as I just want him back, for good. I do feel it will happen in time.

It really made me happy to see exH smile warmly at my dad. This hasn't been done in years.

Is your job going well? I wish you'd start your own thread on your life now, as you've gone through so much and the new people here especially could see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know though that you don't come here much, but if you have the chance--please do!

Take care everyone. All thoughts and comments are appreciated.

HP

Hi H_P - Just popping in to say hello, because I know how hard you find Sundays.

I think Sharon hit the nail on the head - for us seeing the wider picture, the steps being made seem huge. Of course for you, it's like being a kid at Christmas (Pound Man used to say that to me!), you want it, and you want it now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You're doing a really good job, slow but sure, T&P as JL would say.

I loved Andy's letter, and today it rang true for me about life being too short. I found out that my dear neighbour had died. He was a lovely man, 81 years of age, and a true gentleman. He missed his W who died a couple of years ago. I feel sad that I hadn't heard sooner, nor did I get the chance to see him and say goodbye. He was a fine gentleman.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to go off on a tangent, but reading Andy's letter and thinking of my neighbour, it is all so sad sometimes. I hope your XH continues to see the positive changes in you and will one day (soon) realise that the two of you can indeed have a future again together.

Take care and wishing you well from remarkably sunny and warm London again!

Lisa