I received this email from MIL and her husband this morning.

"We haven't heard from anyone in the family for a long time, especially S and D. We're very dissapointed that our Grandchildren aren't keeping in touch. This shouldn't be. I don't see how your children shouldn't contact us and I hope they do. Please give us your assessment of this situation and both of us are very hurt that your problem with WH should transmit to the children. Please answer your opinion. Love"

I had been in close contact with MIL from D-day until late June when she allowed WH to bring OW to a family gathering that my D attended. D was not informed that OW would be there. This incident was the straw that broke the camel's back for D, S, and me. Since then I have sent several emails to MIL talking about nothing in particular, just weather, job, etc. to keep in touch. I didn't even know that D hadn't called her grandmother until last week when it came up in conversation.

I'm contemplating my reply and would appreciate any feedback/opinions from fellow MBers.

Thanks.
Lablady

Me BS 48
WH 48
M 25 yrs
S 25, D 23
OW 45 widow/co-worker
WH had 2 A's 15 and 13 yrs ago
This D-day 7/02
WH moves in w/OW New Year's Eve
Plan B letter sent 2/03
Very limited contact
Last contact a phone call from WH 8/10/03, wanting to know if there's ever a chance we can have a relationship

Your daughter is old enough to make the decision to call grandma if she wants to. You MIL did something that hurt you but she might also have been caught with alienating her son by not letting him bring the OW. I am not at all agreeing with her. Her actions hurt you and probably your kids too. This situation could just be the consequences of her actions. She can't ride the fence and she looks to have found the side she wants.

I would tell her how you feel, that it hurt what she did. The email seems a little cold and unfeeling also...doesn't seem to be much concern on her part towards you. The whole "what did I do to deserve this" kinda thing.

God Bless

Your response to these should be very short.

"At 25 and 23, I am not responsible for your relationship with S and D nor their relationship with you." You may contact them at "insert e-mail address and/or phone no."

It sounds like they may have made their decision about the relationship THEY want. OR it could be that they just don't have time for grandparents at this stage in their life. Either way, unless you have tied them up, it is not your problem.

Frankly, the short paragraph you put in your first email seems short, to-the-point, and pretty neutral. Why not send something like that? You had been in touch, you stopped being in touch when they decided to be in touch with OW, etc. In fact, your note was more neutral than my last sentence recapping it. No blame, just facts.

Thanks for your replies, d_rose and becontent. I agree that the relationship between S, D and their grandmother is not my responsibility, and part of my reply to her will include this.

Both S and D are indeed hurt and angry with their grandmother, I think this is the main reason they have not contacted her. Right after D-day, and until June when the OW incident occurred, S, D and I all kept in close touch with MIL. MIL repeatedly told us she thought that WH was bonkers, would come to his senses soon, what he was doing was wrong, it would be best if he was back with his family, etc. Something changed for her, though, and, as d_rose said, she chose the side of the fence she wants to be on.

WH's actions have consequences, as do hers. It seems they want to have OW AND S&D in their lives. I'm not sure if that will happen, but it's not my decision. This past weekend, about 1 yr since WH told his kids he was "in love with another woman", I tried to initiate a family meeting with S and D to see if they had questions or concerns about me and their father. Neither of them wanted to talk, they both just let me know that they are not happy with their father and want little or nothing to do with him. Honestly, we hardly ever talk about him anymore.

Lablady

A.M. -

Your post crossed mine in cyberspace. Thanks for your thoughts. You are right, I still want to remain neutral with MIL. I don't know the end result of this situation so I don't want to burn any bridges. It's tempting to remind MIL that WH has damaged his relationship with his kids, not just me, but I will refrain.

How are things going in your world? The way you have handled yourself, keeping up your social life even when WH and OW show up for the same events, would be difficult for me. How do you do it?

Lablady

I agree at the kids ages, it is both you MIL and the kids responsibilities to work out their relationship. But you do have a role, not to "make" anyone do anything as one might with younger children, but certainly as a mentor. In your role as a mentor you should be scrupulously neutral (as you said was your intent), I wonder if you have been. It is normal, understandable, but still reprehensible for a parent to subtlely or not, foster choosing sides. I have no idea what your family dynamics have been aside from this thread so may be off base. But it sounds a bit like your kids equate a relationship with father and grandparents as a disloyalty to you. This ends up being a punishment kind of behaviour and is unhealthy for the kids. To that end, as a neutral mentor, you should look really hard and be sure your kids are behaving toward exh and grandparents the same way they would if you were not in the picture at all, or were still happily married to their father. If you percieve they have in fact altered their behaviour toward exh/gp because they feel bad for you, you need to undo that, and encourage them to have full rewarding relationships with them.

What happened between you and exh should not be of any concern whatsoever to them. Their relationships with exh/gp should be based solely on how it works without any consideration re yourself. It may be that exh and gp are not very worthy of much emotional vestment by the kids, and they choose only to maintain a distant relationship, that would be fine, because it is honest. Admittedly this is hard to do, it is very natural for kids to identify with the "hurt" parent, but it is very unhealthy for them to do so, or for the hurt parent to allow it. As for thr ow thing, this is related, you are divorced (correct, if not, other factors do enter), so their is no ow, their is only their parents (mom and dad) continuing to live their life and making relationship decisions which are not subject to anyone elses permission (and withdrawing because you don't like who someone chooses is essentially trying to pressure them....unless their choice is unworthy by their own interactions with others). I realize these kinds of things go on in life, often leading to lifetimes of estrangement, but I think it is terribly wrong, and says more about those who use their relationships to try an coerce relationship choices (inappropriately) in other family members.

I can only imagine the hue and cry if you (or H, or gp) tried to dictate who your kids could date/marry.... even if you were right. Would you shun your kids if they marry someone you don't like? Of course not, nor should they shun dad of gp out of some misplaced loyalty to you which may have occured.

Anyways, clearly the situation and people involved is relevant, but in general IMO you have an obligation in terms of good parenting to encourage your kids to pursue relationships with exh/gp without any misguided loyalty to you (and of course you must be careful not to take any pleasure out of your kids loyalty to you, thereby encourageing them to remain distant). As for the ow showing up at gp with d unawares, give em a break, it is not up to your d to require notification, it is generally the purview of the host to make such choices, not the guests.

However, I do think under the circumstances it is reasonable to expect a level of sensitivity to ones grandaughter in discussing these kinds of issues with her to avoid uneeded conflict (people being people, and a certain animus toward ow being normal albeit inapporpriate). I do think the grandkids owe their grandparents an effort at a frank airing of these family issues, and honest participation in crafting guidelines (fair to all) all can adhere too...but making one of those guidelines treating the ow with disrespect or shunning is not ok. If she is to become part of the family, then so be it, the past is done, both you and H are responsible for the marital failure, and the future should be assessed and acted on on it's own merits. In other words, the ow is just someone whom dad is with and everyone must accept that...just like each of you, wife, kids, gp expect to have your choices respected. I would imagine that is all gp are doing, accepting the reality of their sons choice, and judgeing him and ow on thier own merits.

IMO this kind of honest behaviour will lead to the best outcome for all...family feuds, and estrangements do nothing for anyone. Good luck.

Hello Lablady,

My home situation is similar to yours: we hardly ever mention H. I can't claim to be neutral, so it's best that S doesn't want to mention him -- it's not loyalty to me, really, but true disappointment in his abandoning father. We do not discuss it now -- he expressed his feelings months ago, though not to H, with whom his relationship has always been a bit distant. When neutrality might sound forced, I think silence is best, at least I hope so.

If I'm going to admit to crummy motives, I have to say that I know appearing in public at the same gatherings puts pressure on everyone -- especially OW, and even well-armored H to some extent. Well, maybe these motives aren't so crummy after all, they serve a purpose.

Fact is, we live in a world where everyone tries to pretend things don't matter. Dumping commitments doesn't matter, hanging loose matters. Parents fall into this category. So it's unrealistic to expect people to take a stand for you. Watching the defection of friends is hard, but I can try to stand for a few principles in the meantime. Loyalty, love, commitment "matter" to me.

H's family is very dear to me -- but they've watched him go through two other M's, and they know that he has to be a permanent feature in his life. Wife #2 disappeared without a bubble. They have little reason to believe the same won't happen to me. They are resigned to the inevitable -- which seems to include H's poor behavior.

I send emails, keep them posted, sound cheerful. H has been doing everything to legitimize his A, insisting people treat her as a wife though we are still married. And they are. I know, deep down in the primordial depths, they must have some pangs of conscience about this...some distant memory... My job is to make that conflict within them more apparent, not to make their choices easier for them. By being cheerful, bright, and fun to be with -- it's impossible to use my behavior as an excuse to avoid me or dismiss me. By being in-yo face, it becomes impossible to ignore or forget me.

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

sufdb-

Thanks for your reply, you've given me lots to think about. For the record, WH and I are not Dv'd, not even legally separated, which I agree makes a difference in how I handle WH and OW.

One thing that you said that I don't understand is "What happened between you and exh should not be of any concern whatsoever to them", which I take to mean "them" as our kids. What WH did, leave home for an A, lie to his kids and me repeatedly about ending it with OW, showing us how poor his judgement is, effected his entire family, not just me. My S had a sad revelation recently. He said, "You know when parents tell young children that they're getting divorced, but that they still love the kids, it's just that mom and dad can't live together any more? Well, that's bull***t, they just ruined the whole family." He's right, it's not just about mom and dad, there is a whole family involved.

I know that I have influenced the way my kids view WH's A. Some of it I'm not proud of, such as my D hearing me beg WH to come home from OW's house early in the A. But I AM proud of showing them that they do not have to enable someone who is behaving in a way they don't approve of. My S already knew this, D is having a hard time, conflict avoider like her mother.

What I'm trying to be neutral about is how I respond to MIL. I'm in Plan B for 8 months, still waiting for WH to make a move toward Dv or reconciliation, and I don't want to jeopardize my R with MIL in either case. Long term, I really like MIL and may be able to speak to her in the future. Not now, though, it's too painful for me, and if it's one thing I've learned, it's that I don't have to let others hurt me.

S and D have many issues that they'll have to deal with regarding their father. Right now they have no respect for him. I think they felt that way as soon as he told them he was in love with another woman and genuinely thought they'd be happy for him. It went downhill from there. WH would like to reconnect with his children, it would validate his current life, but they are not interested in being a part of his life right now. They have extended their disapproval to include their grandmother.

During the brief discussion I initiated last weekend, wanting to air any concerns we might have about the A and WH, I asked S and D what they thought we should do if their Greatgrandmother dies (WH's grandmother is 96 and in poor health). They both replied, "I'm not going to the funeral". I told them I thought we should all go, but the conversation ended there, unresolved. I know there's lots more to deal with in this mess, and I don't have all the answers.

sufdb, thanks again for giving me lots to think about. I will re-read your post. You are not the first person to warn me that I should encourage my kids to establish a relationship with their father. What I have done is to tell them both that they don't have to choose between him and me, it's up to them and I will love them either way. At this point, I think they have made a choice to stay away from WH. It may be a temporary thing.

Lablady

FYI, my D was adamant she never wanted to see my H again. Then high school graduation for H's kids, who live with us. I told her that part of being mature was being able to stomach situations that you didn't like. All that was required of her was to be polite and civil, and keep her feelings to herself for a few hours. After that, she might get her wish about never seeing him again, as his role in our lives is very uncertain.

You might do something similar with your kids in the event of a funeral.

If there is a reconciliation, of course, it's a different story. In that case, H would have to do a big PR job with all the kids. At this point, that's not on the table, so I refuse to worry about it.

Lablady,

Can you email me? Got something to tell you.

ISGIRL123@hotmail.com

Thanks.