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Joined: Sep 2001
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ark^^ Offline OP
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That would be ME!!!!!
We could debate the big fat part...because no matter what weight watcher says...pizza is a vegetable as long as it has onions, greenpeppers, and mushrooms... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There have been a lot posts lately about forgiveness and while we often hash out the motions and actions of forgiveness...we don't often talk about a key factor...and perhaps one of the harder parts of forgiveness...

The creation of an environment of forgiveness...
which is no easy task...BS deeply feel the need for demonstrative sincere apoligies...
WS often feel overwhelmed and find it easy to wallow in the pain rather than face things.....

there is even talk of punishment by spouses, and God...thrown in..

and none of those are meant as judgements..they are the nature of the beast...

So I steal this from Espior from whom these words of wisdom came...for often changing our attitude and perception of what we are really wanting from one another...changing directions...sometimes brings that which we are seeking...

here's what she said...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I found that during the affair period, I did end up having alot of discussion with my H that were helpful in the long run. Firstly, I did "educate" him. I would read books and share information with him- how affairs develop, the affair "bubble", statistics on affairs, and the effects of divorce on children. I just did this calmly in an informative manner. I also did discuss some stuff about the OP with him, always being careful not to insult her. But stuff would come out during these discussions that was food for thought and that would pierce that bubble. Often I would just raise issues of practicality or logistics- which was often stuff we needed to figure out anyway.

One thing I told my WH was that he had become a liar and a cheater and I knew that was not "him"- I couldn't let him be that kind of person. You can use this technique on your WS too. For example, if he wants to discuss houses with you, you say, "I can't let you go behind OW's back with me, it isn't fair to her to let her believe she has a future with you when you are planning otherwise. I can't be party to you being dishonest. Because I respect you and I know that is not the kind of man you want to be" You take it away from you being the injured party. NOT "you hurt me so much, I have to be away from you" RATHER "I have to protect you and your dignity by distancing myself from this lying behavior". I don't know if this makes sense.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Creating an environment for the WS that identifies the behaviors that are hurtful to all...and casting them in new light...
the new light being...

I believe in you more than I believe in your bad behaviors...
I believe YOU yourself are worthy of better and I know dam well I am...

Shifting the focus....
and this actually may be the key part of true forgiveness and true repentance...

I just loved Espiors post...and didn't want it to get lost...it is such a gift...

ARK

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WOW...

A new way to think about it... What a GREAT way to think about it... And great for not LB'ing...

Thanks for HI-JACKING this... Its wonderful stuff...

Shifting the focus.... (there is three words for PEP's thread...)

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This was stolen from my thread. Espoir sent this to me because I am a spoiled brat and I am her favorite child! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

All jokes aside, her advice has been priceless to me and RIGHT ON!! I would encourage others to listen and follow this advice which worked for me.
Espoir had a special understanding of my situation.

Take Care.

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I wanna lend my support to the idea of Pizza being officially named a vegetable!! Pizza is my FAVORITE veggie!! WHOO HOO!!! Just tell me where to sign!

GO PIZZA...GO PIZZA...GO PIZZA!!!!

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Espoir is one of my favorite MBers! Her posts are always so insightful! ...but she doesn't post much 2 ol' 2long <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I think it's the "2s" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

-2long

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ark^^ Offline OP
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I'm bumping this one up with the recent insurgance of questions about forgiveness..

this is a great post...

enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 'I believe in you more than I believe in your bad behaviors...
I believe YOU yourself are worthy of better and I know dam well I am...'


</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes!

We view our reflections through other peoples eyes, I think.

When someone believes in me, sees the good in me ,some potential in me; it encourages me to be a better person, to be the best I can be.

Those are the people I am drawn to.


I have heard it called 'redemptive reframing'.


Shul

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Here's a link to a good selection of forgiveness resources and how to work through to reach forgiveness:
Forgiveness Resources


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