Welcome to the harem which I do not want to join.

So I have been called "crazy, pathetic, they pity me, they feel sorry for my children, that have a mother that only cares about herself" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I am even doubting my own sanity <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Scene 1:-
Xh calls - OW's, children is in our town with her Xhb and his OW - They hope I don't have a problem if they fetch my children to spend the day with them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I was caught off guard - Me: Unfortuanetly we have plans for the day. Thank you bye.

OW calls fom Xh cell phone - You are a selfish b*(&, you are dv now get a life on my voice mail <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

OW's, Xhb also calls - Message on voicemail. We are all adults, don't let our children suffer because of our mistakes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I had to keep my composure as I was amongst my fellow church folk. My head wanted to burst but I kept on smiling.

I don't know OW (have seen her once), I don't know her Xh and his OW. They are my Xh's harem not mine.

Ow's, Xhb is very much involved in her and my Xhb's life. He even sleeps at their house when he is in their town. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I cannot understand how my Xhb lives with this as he is aware that OW's husband was seeking reconcilion at some stage.

Are they just using my X to satisfy their financial needs?

Do I write this letter to my X or do I yet once again ignore this whole sick scenario:

Dear @@@@@

I do have a problem with our children spending the day with OW's, X.

Since you have left home, my values did not change. The education that we together gave our children is also still the same.

As a parent I will never allow my children to go with people that I don't know.

I do not find it acceptable that here in our town our children must be subjected to Ow's X and her children.

It is enough that when they are with you they must deal with such conflicting emotions, which on their return takes some time to stabalize -
You and OW
You, OW and her children
OW and her children
Ow's, X, and his OW and child

In your town our children have no option as they so much want to see and be with you.

When the children is with me I will determine the circumstances they deal with until such time that they can decide for themselves.

Regards

GinnyF

Advice pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 05:20 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

Good grief, of course you shouldn't send your children out with people of dubious character, much less strangers. It's bad enough that your children are exposed to your H's sordid adulterous personal life, they don't also have to be exposed to other shady characters in the XH/OW's life.

Your job is to protect your children from situations like this, since it seems your XH won't, and to hell with those who don't agree.

The appalling lack of judgement and sense of protocol on the part of your X and his honey would leave me quite frightened about turning my children over to them. You are not crazy, you are just dealing with people who ARE.

I agree, heck this is a no-brainer, the letter was good too, no accusations just good parental policy, not putting children into the care of people you don't know.

But this will continue to be a problem, won't go away, I wonder if a possible solution is to get a RO against all these people that also includes your kids, then no one but H can come around them.

Thanks LIR:

I already have a "Breach of Peace" court order against her. I could not get a RO as there was no physical violence against me.

She is not allowed within 100 meters of me, no telephonic or written contact. On anyone of these transgressions she gets three warnings. After the 3rd warning they will arrest her, she must then appear in court and then she will get a court warning - This system is a joke <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
She even scoffs at this.

My best defence is just to ignore her. Let her rant and rave like a lunatic at least I can switch of my phone - Xh cannot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just got back from my therapist now - His opinion. She has the traits of NPD. Everybody must be under her control. XH, Her XH and his OW.
Unfortunately, I am not towing the line and this is the reason for her behaviour.

He also believes that XH's balls must be in a vice. That is why he had that emotional outburst last Thursday after not seeing me for eight mnths.

Xh is aware of all these outburst and letters, I don't think he has any control over it.

Well, next she would most probably be sleeping with her X and expect my X to be in acceptance of this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Think I need to start chanting my mantra again:
IGNORE; IGNORE; IGNORE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Ginny, I think your XH and his pack are predators and bullies who try to make you feel defenseless. I would go on the offense, rather than the defense. Instead of DEFENDING your actions in a note, I would attack THEIR actions *IF* you are going to send anything.

Otherwise don't send a note at all. You don't have to defend yourself, you have done nothing wrong, and I think a defensive posture only EMBOLDENS THEM. They were in the wrong, don't let them cower you.

Dear X,

I wanted to make it quite clear why I wouldn't allow the children to go with XYZ yesterday and to also inform you that I didn't appreciate your vulgar messages on my voicemail.

By law, and against my better judgement, I am required to turn my children over to their father. A father who has set a very poor example by his unmanly, adulterous behavior who abandoned his family.

Unfortunately, children cannot choose their fathers and are forced to accept their shortcomings. Children desperately need their fathers. Part and parcel of this sleazy arrangement, is their inevitable exposure to your affair partner, a woman of dubious character who contributed to the destruction of our children's family. As galling as it may be, they are forced, by you, to accept this character who has help wreak such destruction on their lives. Sadly, there is nothing that can be done about that since you refuse to protect them from this bad influence.

I am not, however, required by law or sense of principle to turn my children over to strangers whose only connection to them is through a dubious character, OW. OW's XH is not only a stranger to myself and my children, but his connection to the OW does not speak well of him. Please do not ever again send strangers of questionable character to collect our children. Since you will not protect our children, you can rest assured that I will.

Thanks Melody: I am busy building up enough evidence to take this matter to court. There is nothing that I can do in the mean time. My kids want to be with their dad. Thank God, the visits are busy dwindling due to his financial situation.

Thanks Sufdb: I am busy reading up on legal matters concerning visitation and well being of kids (court orders) - Must have all my ducks in a row before instructing my atty. Books were per atty's recommendation.

Because I live in a "no fault" country and where cultural customs of many marriages has just been legalised my atty did advise that if I should go ahead with my court orders of protection for kids and myself against OW - I will be fighting the state.

My first brush with the law came when I took out the Breach of Peace against OW. Judge told me to stop fighting and just accept this woman. I told her that I respect her customs but my moral values is different to that of hers. Well, the judge was not a happy woman. She took many request of the list of "Breach of Peace". Never knows maybe she was also busy with an Affair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I need to keep a level head in all this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

yes, be careful, what country (or region) are you in....is this your home (you and exH natives) too, want to stay....or can you leave? Also I would suggest you (on this issue) try to make common cause with your H about your kids well-being. If you can get him on your side that his kids are at risk with these other people, maybe he will not be an ally with ow to have this kind of visitation. You offer that he can see the kids anytime, or even relax some of your own plan b type stuff to keep him included (I dunno, mkae his favorite food occassionally, or do some little thing, or give reports about the kids etc.), he will view you as an ally....this is a little complicated, but do you get my drift?

I know this would be a little more emotionally hard for you, but it is about your kids. I think it is a reasonable deduction that the ow (in this case) is indeed NPD etc., and has targeted (and will be plotting anout) your kids, and drawing them into her net of control....that is just what these kinds of people do....she doesn't care about them (not that she would be deliberately harmful), she only cares about how they help her accomplish her control goals over your exh, and yourself.

<small>[ September 22, 2003, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

Ginny,
In any world this would be abnormal and unhealthy for children. It is difficult enough to deal w/ OW, but her X and his OW along w/ children who may also have disfuntional lives. Don't second guess yourself. It sounds as though you are doing your best to keep everything at a resonable level of peace for your children. They are the inocent by standers who get washed away in the emotion of it all. Encourage them to be open w/ their feeling when they are alone w/ their dad. They owe nothing to OW. She has to earn their respect and I agree, it sounds as though she only wants control. I also agree that if you can, move. Small towns increase the chance of contact w/ OW and her warped since or normal. It sounds as though she wants everyone to accept the "Kings New Clothes."

Your "brush w/ the law" in requesting a "Breach of Peace" is just as much your right as the OW. The judge suggesting you "just accept" the OW is absurd. What does she want, you to invite OW and XH to dinner? I applaud you in your strength and stedfast standards. Hold tight to what you know is right and true. Continue your mantra, Ignore, Ignore, Ignore.

God Bless

Gosh, Ginny, I am so sorry about your crazy situation. What country are you in? Is it your native country?

I think you are handling things very well. IGNORE x 3, DON'T REACT x 10 etc!!! Document anything that happens- abusive phone calls etc. but no matter what is said, don't react. I think you were very wise to simply say, I'm sorry we are busy, and then not reacting to the accusations and insults etc.

Do you have a set visitation schedule in place? The best thing is to have a dryly written, specific legal document in place, that is very clear. Then you simply refer to that document. So if the situation arises again, you can simply say, the court orders grant visitation to the children's father, I am not required to hand them over to others. Case closed. Your mantra then becomes, I am simply following the court orders.

If you don't have specific guidelines, it might be a good idea to get things spelled out, it just eliminates alot of hassles. Then just follow the orders to the letter.

Good luck!

In response to sufdb...

Oh how i wish i was not an amateur family law specialist...

Yes, you can get a RO saying that XH can't leave the kids with XOWHBS...oh whatever. Sometimes this requires making an amendment to the visitation order and can be done without an attorney.

I would leave the visitation agreement and simply file a TRO with the court stating that children should not be left with whomever and H should not have overnight other sex guests when in possession.

Caveat: Whatever the one is enjoined from, so to will you likely be so consider that second one.

TRO's are granted without a blink with a hearing on whether to permanantly enjoin in 2-3 weeks. All you have to do is present the court with a notarized affidavit about why. No sense wasting atty's fees here. At the hearing you can ask that your affidavit be introduced in support of your request, XH's atty can then cross examine you and then he will put Xh on the stand - you get to cross-examine him.

Not hard, just ask things like "Why do you believe it is good for our children to stay with XYZ?" He has to show that it IS in best interests and in this situation unless you have an oddball ultra liberal judge it ain't likely.

Dress like a sunday school teacher, be serene and polite and the judge will take about 30 seconds to decide in your favor.

Prayers (and kudos!)
2.

Oh yeah...

DOCUMENT the abusiveness and always be polite.

A simple phrase guaranteed to drive them nuts???

"I am so sorry you feel this way, I will pray for you" click

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 05:21 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

SUFDB: I do not want to give too much information on BB of my whereabouts as I know OW also spends lots of time on the internet. I need to protect myself.

I live in Africa where we have only gained democracy a couple of years ago.

I do keep him informed via e-mail of all the kids activities and school progress. Very one sided because to date he never acknowledged any of my e-mails but I do hear from my 11yo when they discuss matters relating to the e-mails.

Unfortunately, I cannot offer him food as he lives about 2000 kilometres away from us. Also he has been put on a strict diet by OW as she believe that the food that our culture like is unhealthy(lol).

JUJU: Xh is either still deep in fog or complete denial. According to him and OW I am the cause of all the problems. OW sealed her own faith with my 11yo D with her behaviour soon after she and XH moved in together. She insulted DD by telling her she had no manners and that she was fat. They now have a hate relationship.

Culturally men are allowed to have as many wives as they want but they must all be treated equally and with respect. I am a christian so I do not practise this belief.

ESPIOR: I am an African and so is XH. OW is of European descent and this is what is causing all the conflict. Different race, different culture, and to her different moral values. - On this board I have learned that moral values all over the world is the same.

As per the dv decree - I am custodial parent and Xh has reasonable access to the kids. I will use your words regarding only giving children to father in all future endeavours. Thank you.

2OFAKIND and LIR: I have been to the family court this morning to go and find out my legal rights and that of my children.

Well, again I left dispondent. I think the courts are looking at this as a betrayed spouse wanting revenge.

Told family advocate everything from D-day to now with accompanying documentation to back my claim:
Letters from OW, voice mail recordings etc.........

His response:

As I am the custodial parent, I have full legal rights to decide who and with whom my children associate with in the town we reside in. If I say no - it must be accepted. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As XH is living with OW and we are dv - she is now lawfully recognised as his "common-law wife" <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> She is also protected by countries laws <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Legally there is nothing that I can do to stop my children from going there, with whom and who they associate whether it be her X, children or family.

Because, kids have a good relationship with X and there has been no sexual, physical or verbal abuse I cannot take out a RO against X to keep them away from his "common-law wife".

X is also seen as "of sound character" because he pays maintenance, never skipped on visitations, daily telephone contact and basically cares about their emotional needs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

With all the abovementioned qualities - Highly unlikely that I will get any kind of RO to prevent kids from seeing him.

As for ow - I completed a RO form detailing every incident with accompanying documentation - Had to wait for 1 hour for court orderly to decide whether it would stand up in court - Sadly, it was rejected.........................No physical violence, sexual abuse or emotional abuse. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Family advocate advised me to sue OW for defamation of character and harassment. His words - There you will get justification, here in our courts your sitch is seen as trivial comapred to the crime stats.

What did I learn today after spending five hrs at the court house. I must protect myself and just deal with my sitch. The courts will only protect me and my kids if their is violence.

I live in a violent country with one of the highest crime stats for murder, yet you need violence to be protected by court <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 05:22 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>