hoping you are still hanging on out there...

Have you switched genres of music and gone total blues yet.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

seriously I hope you are well...and feeling better...

prayers to you and yours...
ARK

TMD... Are you out there?
Just wondering how you are doing.
Hope all is ok.

Shelle

I'm alive. I've much to tell... most of which I don't want to tell. But I will because even though I made some very bad decisions this past week, there have been some breakthroughs too.

That you came looking for me means a great deal. -Thank you

You've had an impact in my life that will be remembered.

The latest song...
__________
Been thinking long and hard about you
Elusive thoughts sometimes
And just when I know the road to follow
Well that's when I go blind

Do you believe in love
Can you see life beyond the fantasy
Do you believe in love
A moment in time or everlasting
__________

.... It's my personal therapy.

-TMD

I don't know how to begin. I feel like I do in the beginning of a counseling session.

You know there had been renewed contact. Quite honestly - I never really got to a point where I felt as if she was out of reach. So to call it renewed contact is a bit of a misnomer. For the sake of the story suffice it to say we have been talking a lot.

I spoke to her on Sunday night - the 21st - and had difficulty keeping my emotions in check and failed a few times. I told her in that conversation that this thing was killing me slowly and that I didn't think I could handle it anymore. I pulled in my emotions and after a short conversation I said I was tired and we said goodnight.

Monday night; the night of my 13th wedding anniversary - Told you - I'm a schmuck - Though my wife and I have been talking, you know the content as I've described it here. I asked my wife out to a movie. She declined - so I went alone - I was on the cell to the OW's hotel as I pulled out of the driveway and left her a message, as I knew she was working late, and told her when my movie let out and I would call her then.

I called her after the movie - I was excited at the prospect of talking to her - she commented on how I sounded more like me tonight. I apologized for the depressing conversation the night before and we talked for a while. She urged me to come see her. She asked though if I thought that was a good idea - I hesitated - avoided the question - and she said - You didn't answer my question - I said - well of course it's not a good idea!

I went anyway.

Before you get all outraged hear me out - I discovered some important things during this little adventure. Remember how I been saying all along that I feel nothing for my wife? Well - That Sunday night - while my wife pounded me with questions, with a cool exterior, that I've been answering, She posed a question to me - What do you want? I said - 'right now I don't know what I want' I said 'I want to find peace - My heart and my mind are too scrambled right now to say anything about our future definitively beyond saying that I'm unwilling to say we're through. I simply don't know. Then I asked her - 'what do YOU want?' you know what? The cool exterior evaporated. She began to cry and something happened then that took me off guard. I felt the need to go to her and put my arms around her and comfort her.

Well in the fairy tales that would have been the end of it - but in reality, had I done that, she'd have knee'd me in the groin. So I abstained. But the emotion didn't go unnoticed. So the subsequent conversations with the OW held this discovery in sway.

My rationale for going was to see what, if anything had changed. You may recall that my anxiety had the sweet tendency to dissipate, nay, disappear when I was talking to her. On the last two conversations this wasn't the case. So when I got there and I saw her it was physiologically impossible to hide the fact of my continued anxiety. As I embraced her, my heart pounded violently, as we talked my heart pounded violently, as we made love my heart pounded violently - just so you know - anxiety palpitations and sexually charged exertion are completely different - In short - I tried everything to distract myself from the facts as they seemed to be emerging. Then she said 'I love you' and for the first time in all this madness, instead of the euphoria that I always felt, those words from her mouth sent me deeper into the anxiety and depression and the pain and all I could do was look at her. She stopped and looked incredulous for a moment - the look on my face must have shocked her - she said 'I DO!' I said ' I know you do - ' the revelation of that moment was mind bending for me.

So after a night of physical and emotional exhaustion - I have never been able to sleep when with her - and coupled with constant hunger - I am always hungry and can never eat anything past 2 bites - And a chest that hurt from unceasing palpitations - I turned to her and said - "aren't you getting tired of this?" I could hear the hesitation in her voice - she said "sometimes - yes" I said - "Do you love yourself?" She said 'yes.' I was surprised by that answer. I said "really?" she said - "Do you love yourself?" And before I even knew it was happening I was sobbing. I told her 'I hate myself for the things I've done. I said I hate what I've done to my wife and son - I hate what I've done to your already strained relationship with you husband - I hate the effect I have on your children even though they don't know about me - I can see the false bravado of your oldest son as he says 'oh - everyone's mom and dad get divorced - no biggy' and your little girl who knows something is different with mom and dad. And your middle son who just wants to push it all away and be a kid - And you - you don't even talk about God anymore -. What have I done to make you stop talking about him - I said.. and ME - I said this is killing me - I have to take medication if I hope to be able to function in society. I told her I couldn't take it anymore and that I had to break my promise to her. I begged her to not call me again. She agreed. I don't know what good that will do. But before I left.. I took her face in my hands and I said -"- her name - - Go back to your husband - Focus on him - not me - in time you two will heal -" she said - "is that what you're going to do? I said "that doesn't matter - that's non of your concern. Focus on your husband - he loves you and frankly from all you've told me - I actually admire the guy."

So OK the drama was thick but it was my most honest moment in the affair.

I'd not told my wife where I was going.. or that I was going at all - but I left clues and when I called her that morning - she'd figured it out.

So for the last week - I've been answering questions and being painfully honest and she's not giving me what you said I should ask for which is a safe zone when sharing these things - I guess I don't deserve that anyway - So I get a hell of a lot of backlash and I absorb it for the most part - once and a while I lash back just to say 'hey - you're the one asking me this stuff - I'm answering honestly and it's not easy - so back off on the hostilities -' she doesn't really back off - but I feel better having vented - and we continue on. I told her all about what I wrote above - and while I was gone - she'd read my journal - ouch! And my emails from the OW and my emails between the OW's H and myself. I knew she'd find that stuff - I guess I really wanted out and didn't know how bad.

My wife says now - after hours of uncomfortable conversation the same thing she's said all along - "If it didn't involve love - I could have worked through this." "But you love her." I can't say anything to that. I feel like I still do love her. And my wife can spot my lie before I open my mouth. Better to keep it shut. I said instead - "Look - it's like this - though you are ready, in the midst of this turmoil, to write us off, that is a step I'm unwilling to take. I believe we need time." I said " I know I've done nothing in these months all the way up to last week to provide you with any reason to believe me - I understand that and I respect your hesitation and anger and cannot blame you for any of it. Though I struggle admittedly to find the path back to you.. it is the right thing to do. I know that is cold - but it's the only truth I have right now.. " I said "I wanted to hold you and comfort you for the second time in a week. For me - that is hope. So you can berate me - you can urge me to go to the OW - you can throw my honesty back in my face - I won't hold any of it against you - but as long as I'm here - I'm trying to salvage this thing."

So Ark and Shelle - I'm no angel - not even close - I still have my secrets and my baggage that accompanies them. I still have my selfishness and my desires and those things I hate about myself - the difference now is that I'm facing them win or lose. I'm open to the possibilities of a failed marriage - I'm open to the possibilities of a better than ever marriage too. What I can say with certainty is that things are different now. Not a hell of a lot better - but they're different. My wife keeps my cell most nights now and when I went to a gig over the weekend we switched phones by her request. I see that as hopeful. I don't think she would test me like that if there was no desire to heal. I'm OK with it. If the OW calls.. She may get a surprise. That might go a long way toward helping my wife out - her being a hot blooded Italian and all - Whatever happens happens. I'll be here for it. It's all I have right now.

-TMD

Do you really really mean it this time?

Then post your no-contact letter and let us help you write it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by BrambleRose:
<strong>Do you really really mean it this time?

Then post your no-contact letter and let us help you write it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...This time... Yeah... OK... I'm tired too...

Well... OK... one thing you may not know though is that she read SAA and wrote me a NC letter back in June using the template provided in the book. That's how I found MB. After I got that letter, I surfed 'infidelity' on the web and found this site... I read all of Harley's series as posted under infidelity and was shocked to see her letter to me almost verbatim.

To use that formula on her would be a bit laughable don't you think? I called her on that... "such a well crafted form letter."

She knows the MB drill. She's more well read on the topic than I am frankly.

Hmmn... Makes no difference?

What think you?

-TMD

If you hate someone as much as you hate your wife...

if you despise her that much???

why don't you just leave her????

Is it to force her hand to end your pain???

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

ARK

OK that may be totally unfair...but uggghhhhh...

I hate people that use people to hurt other people to fullfill their own needs or agenda...
I hate people that believe an act of pain EVEN if it creates a means to the ends is then justifiable...even if that ends to a means turn positve...

I'm really mad at you TMD which is silly because this is cyber space <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
AND
I am not mad that you did with OW what you did
but am mad about your animosity in NOT protecting your wife from your actions.....

it smacks of using the OW and your wife..to put into some type change..whatever the change is that you are to afraid to start yourself...

I will delete this later ...
because it's not fair to you either..
I appreciate your honesty...please know that...
but man have you pissed me off..
I'm gonna think of a really mean song about you and sing it....then I will feel better..
this IS all about me anyways... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
the eagles already gone is begining to play...
ARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Don't delete it ARK. It's all good and true.

though I understand it was rhetorical - No I don't hate my wife. I get what you're saying.

I was as close to evil as I've been in all of this.

Used the OW..? Hmmn... Yes... that occurred to me in retrospect that it could be viewed that way.

More guilt.

And the Doobie Brothers song got the job done...

You -- like my wife -- asked the question. I'm just answering and it's not easy for me -- but to hell with me... I'm doing it.

I don't feel flamed by you either... amazing how you deftly lay waste with a sledgehammer and follow it up with a feather duster. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks for your words ARK. All of them.

-TMD

TMD... OUCH!! Thanks to you my jaw really hurts now - cause it HIT THE FLOOR more than once reading your posts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I only have a few minutes right now, but I will be back later to try to put some thoughts down regarding your update.

I've been struggling with some deep thoughts myself the last few days regarding my own M and am planning to post a thread tonight. I think it is something you can help me understand (from a WS point of view), so please watch for me if you have the time later.

Take Care,
Shelle

TMD:

Holy Moly, Mother of Cripes!

""Look - it's like this - though you are ready, in the midst of this turmoil, to write us off, that is a step I'm unwilling to take. I believe we need time." "

And maybe you'll get the time you believe you need. But only if it's congruent with the amount of time SHE needs.

Look. I realize that some people just have 2 go through all kinds of hell before they pull they're heads out of their nether regions. Heck, I believe my plan A 2k as long as it did 2 be truly a good plan A (probably a good year before it was really "worthy" of being called a plan A) because I had 2 live through all the emotions, all the negativity, all the self-inflicted drama of my reaction 2 my W's A with Rat Meat. Just like she had 2 take as long as she did 2 get over him (assuming she truly has, I think so, but I read a lot about renewed contact here, so I'm going 2 keep my guard up a bit). For2nately, it 2k not a lot longer for each of us 2 get over our own silliness than the other did. And so there's something left from which we can start over.

I don't know about you, TMD. I hope, for your sake, that your W can continue 2 be patient while you finish giving yourself palpitations.

For Rice Cake!
-kid 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>TMD:

I don't know about you, TMD. I hope, for your sake, that your W can continue 2 be patient while you finish giving yourself palpitations.

For Rice Cake!
-kid 2long</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2Long:

Thanks for the post. Your candor is appreciated. You know.. the more I read posts from the BS... the worse I feel now. That must be a revelation in my perspectives for you to hear.

I wonder something though... Is guilt and self loathing the right reason for me to rebuild a marriage? I'm not suggesting that I don't love my wife. I just don't feel it right now and i wonder if I would feel more guilt over attempting to do a thing that I don't believe in at the onset. Furthermore... wouldn't my wife see through to the lack of conviction.

BrambleRose asked me to write and post my NC letter: though I don't believe in all of it's content, i do understand the neccessity of it... so i did it:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

OW -

I’m not going to insult your intelligence with a form letter especially since you well know where I’ve spent much of my time trying to sort this thing out. I need to do this though and it’s quite amazing to me that I’m the one doing it this time.

When we last spoke, I told you how much I hated myself for the things I’ve done over the course of this affair. The pain I’ve put W through is beyond my ability to measure but having been betrayed yourself, surely you can grasp her situation. My selfishness has been nothing short of reprehensible.

My wife may never forgive me and I’m not sure I want forgiveness right now. That may come in time. What has to be done though is the establishment of a marked path to recovery that is visible to her. I cannot be in contact with you or wonder if you will call or encourage that kind of continuance if I hope to heal this sick wound I’ve inflicted.

Though I’ve not given anyone reason to believe it, I have chosen to demonstrate respect for my family and all that that encompasses. That means I’m trying to rebuild my marriage and I can’t do that effectively or believably with the specter of my infidelity floating within reach.

So I’m asking with all due respect that you cease all contact with me for the rest of your natural life and allow me to find the peace that will only come from making things right with W and S and in the eyes of God.

God Bless –

-TMD
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds kinda hollow doesn't it. Tough stuff to grapple with.

---TMD

TMD:

"I wonder something though... Is guilt and self loathing the right reason for me to rebuild a marriage?"

No. It's a starting point for rebuilding your self-respect, though. It's a realization that you're still f***ing up, and that you need 2 redirect. This insane approach 2 whatever it is you're approaching isn't working.

"I'm not suggesting that I don't love my wife. I just don't feel it right now and i wonder if I would feel more guilt over attempting to do a thing that I don't believe in at the onset."

And that's what I mean when I say that I hope when you finally CAN believe in ending your A and working on whatever it is you WANT your fu2re 2 be, that it'll be your M AND your W will want it at the same time. It may not be your M that you save. NOT saving yourself from the drama doesn't seem like a viable option 2 you though, does it? Your call.

"Furthermore... wouldn't my wife see through to the lack of conviction."

Damn straight she will. So don't do it out of a sense of duty. Don't do "your thing." Don't even just do what you "think" is right. Do what you KNOW is right. What do you know, TMD?

"BrambleRose asked me to write and post my NC letter: though I don't believe in all of it's content, i do understand the neccessity of it... so i did it:

Sounds kinda hollow doesn't it. Tough stuff to grapple with."

Grapple or don't, your call. But don't say anything you don't believe in. That WOULD BE hollow. If your letter lacks conviction 2 rebuilding your M, your W will know, and she'll still have her choices 2 make. Hopefully, her choices won't be as inconsiderate of your wants as yours have been of hers.

-kid 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>TMD:

Grapple or don't, your call. But don't say anything you don't believe in. That WOULD BE hollow. If your letter lacks conviction 2 rebuilding your M, your W will know, and she'll still have her choices 2 make. Hopefully, her choices won't be as inconsiderate of your wants as yours have been of hers.

-kid 2long</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks 2Long. I belive in ending the A. So for the sake of discussion, as hard as it may be to do, lets set the OW aside.

I don't know how to go about rebuilding the emotional base of my relationship with my W. I fear that attempting recovery prior to that would be detrimental. I'm spending time with her and I'm sitting down and talking. It's hard but I'm doing it.

Good for freakin' me right!?! woo hoo!!

Anywhoo...

I'm trying... It's only been a week of since my last display of total schmuckdom.... so far as i can see with my head inserted as you say... but I'm here.

-TMD

TMD:

These sitches, like yours, where someone hooks up with an old BF or GF and risks trashing the life they've built up reminded me of this song by Justin Hayward and John Lodge ("Blue Jays"). Look around you. Is your family something you want? If you and your OW got 2gether, would you really have a snowball's chance in hell of living down the destruction you've wrought?

Who Are You Now? - Blue Jays

Who are you now,
First love of mine?
If you could see
You'd reach out for me.

In hallways
And in secret doorways
Were love's hiding places
With nowhere to go.
Goodbye
To the fields and byeways.
I remember saying
I don't want to leave,
'Cos you were all there was to know about me.

Somewhere
On this crazy island
A familiar stranger
Sleeps so far away
But wonder
In the eyes of children
And the smile of fortune
Helps the memory fade,
'Cos they are all there is to know
About me.

Who are you now?"

-kid 2long

You make me think 2Long. And your speaking my language now. here's how I put it recently:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Nothing At All - 'The Vows'

We all know the story by now
How I walked right out that door
I've never kept a single promise that I've made

I've broken all 10 commandments
Except I've never killed a man
But then again - there's not much difference when betrayed

We all know that I went searching
To try to find out what went wrong
I started in the cellar and what I found there says it all

Chorus
To have and to hold
They're looking old back there behind the lamp post
For better for worse
By that old purse right there on the dusty table
Through good times and bad
Through happy and sad
To love and to cherish
All shattered and gone
Got nothing to show now
Nothing at all

Now you may not know story
From another point of view
'bout how the man that vowed his love to her was through

She knew they had their problems
She always had her fears
Then in a whirlwind he blew away the years

Chorus

Bridge
So much time has gone by
No more tears left to cry
And when I look at her I know the reasons why.

Chorus 2X
To have and to hold
They're looking old back there behind the lamp post
For better for worse
By that old purse right there on the dusty table
Through good times and bad
Through happy and sad
To love and to cherish
All shattered and gone
Got nothing to show now
Nothing at all

-SAA

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">-TMD

TMD:

I love lyrics. Always have. Good, love lyrics. Thoughtful, environmental lyrics. Philosophical lyrics. Humorous lyrics. Anti-establishment lyrics...

But this is real life, isn't it? Sometimes the lyrics end, like the song, and we're left 2 wonder just what have we learned?

When you're tired of the drama, I think you'll know what 2 do. I wasn't even aware I was wallowing in the drama. After all, I'm the BS. I'm the "good guy", right? Wrong. There are no innocents. But then, there probably aren't any guilties, either. Just people.

-kid 2long

TMD ~

2 things.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Well... OK... one thing you may not know though is that she read SAA and wrote me a NC letter back in June using the template provided in the book. That's how I found MB. After I got that letter, I surfed 'infidelity' on the web and found this site... I read all of Harley's series as posted under infidelity and was shocked to see her letter to me almost verbatim. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you using us to keep a connection with her?

I for one will not play that game. I'm definitely sorry that I've posted to you at all if this is the case.

We've all posted to on the assumption that you are seeking answers and attempting to clean up your mess.

So, are you simply using us with the hope that your OW will read about your undying "truely madly deeply" love of her?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
To use that formula on her would be a bit laughable don't you think? I called her on that... "such a well crafted form letter."

She knows the MB drill. She's more well read on the topic than I am frankly.

Hmmn... Makes no difference?

What think you?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I think is that you are a self-centered individual who is more concerned about insulting his OW instead of respecting his wife.

That no-contact letter is about your WIFE, not about OW.

I dont care what OW thinks about your no-contact letter. What you should care is what your WIFE thinks about it. Yes, because you should be asking your WIFE to mail it. If you are serious about choosing your marriage, then you have to take actions that say you are committed to being a team player.

Right now, you seem to think the universe is revolving around you and your drama.

Frankly, I'm disgusted.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've been answering questions and being painfully honest and she's not giving me what you said I should ask for which is a safe zone when sharing these things </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stop whining and grow up. Please.

Have you stopped to consider for even a SECOND that YOU are not a safe zone for your wife?

You expect HER to be safe while you continue to waffle and betray her and expect her then to sit and listen to your whining about your love for OW?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know.. the more I read posts from the BS... the worse I feel now. That must be a revelation in my perspectives for you to hear. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you know how insulting this is?

You know what I think? I think you are enjoying all the attention you are getting, and like a typical WS, are throwing us BSes a bone to keep us from just totally writing you off and doing what you dread the most - not playing your game.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Is guilt and self loathing the right reason for me to rebuild a marriage? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What you feel is not important. Feelings are always a very bad basis for decision making. Look where it has gotten you so far.

No, you don't rebuild out of guilt and self-loathing. The guilt and self-loathing are NOT anything more than a barometer for the wisdom of your current choices and actions.

Your current choices suck, and your feelings are telling you so.

You don't wait around to feel love either. You make the choices based on what is right, not what you feel.

You made a vow and you made a baby. You tell me what your obligations are, and what the right choices are. Feelings have diddleysquat to do with it.

I don't know about you, but I have an hour and half commute one way to work in the morning. If I made my choices of behavior and actions based on how I felt at any point in that trip, I doubt I'd make it to work in one piece.

I don't FEEL like being courteous to the moron jerk that just cut me off in traffic. But I do it anyway, because its the RIGHT thing to do, and the thing that will get me to work alive.

If everyone on my commute made their decisions based on feelings, there'd be a shootout all the way up Route 10 every morning.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not suggesting that I don't love my wife. I just don't feel it right now and i wonder if I would feel more guilt over attempting to do a thing that I don't believe in at the onset. Furthermore... wouldn't my wife see through to the lack of conviction.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get over yourself. You lack conviction is because you have not yet chosen your marriage.

How did I know it was safe to allwo my husband to move home?

His actions were 100% devoted to disclosure, honesty, remorse and committment. You are still sitting in the pig-slop that you created and complaining about it.

I changed my mind after reading your self-serving no-contact letter.

Why not ask your WIFE to help you write it?

Better yet, please send your wife here. I'd prefer to help her right now, she needs it more than you do.

TMD, I am glad that you finally found the strength to tell OW to go on with her life without you.

But even me, Little Miss "you can save your marriage if you just try hard enough" is choking back some nasty stuff due to your having slept with OW again... on your wedding anniversary...

I won't mince words... I am thoroughly disgusted.
As a BS, I just don't have it in me right now to say "atta boy" for the progress(?) you have made.

I'll come back when I'm in a better mood...
please check out my new thread -

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=025198

Shelle

Yeah guys...

I'm disgusted with myself too.

Thank you all for your time and effort.

ARK^^ -- this is a good example of what happens when you're honest. I was just answering your question. I knew it would be bad. I hold nothing against you. You were gentle in your anger. Understandable. I'll always think of you and your sage advice when I hear "What A Fool Believes"

Bramble - The OW does not come online here. Shelle asked me that long ago. I've told the OW about my time online with the MB forum and she believed I spent too much time here and gave you all too much weight in my thought processes. BTW - My counselor said the same. I have shared with her what you all have said to me over the months... but MB online is MY quest for truth... not hers. Her husband bought her the book. I found MB on my own while looking for a way to deal with the pain caused by her NC letter back in June.

2Long - The lyrics were mine... they're about my wife and my marriage and this mess and it's my way of getting through all of this. Call it drama or what-have-you. It tells a story that is real. It's music and it's a way of life for me. Music is art and art is often dramatic in content... so lay off.

______

For what it's worth... my wife handled this better than you all did. We've talked more in the last week than in the past 7 months combined.

I told her about the NC letter and what you've said here.. I told her to write it now would be disingenuous on my part and I'm tired of just doing the "right" thing for our marriage... I want to do the honest thing... she agreed. She thought it quite stupid to suggest that I write a letter for her benefit that gives voice to beliefs that I'm not yet capable of embracing. If she understands that, then I simply have no one else to convince do I.

Sorry Shelle - I can't take this heat... I'll do this on my own.

ARK^^ You're the greatest. Keep doing what you're doing.

Thanks again to all of you.

-TMD

First impression is usually the correct one.

We knew you were selfish (edited) and a manipulative (edited), but many still tried to help you. They tried because they thought by helping you, they help their own WS, they help themselves...

When you showed signs of progress, everybody was ecstatic because it gave us hope that our own WS can change, can understand our pain and do the right thing. It wasn't hard to fool us because this is what we wanted to see from you. How easy it was to lie to us...

You used our trust to betray us, TMD. You manipulated everyone here that was genuinely trying to make a difference in your wife's life, your son's life and YOUR life. You used us for your own amusement however. How low can you fall? To "make love" (how pathetic) on your wedding anniversary... after all that's been said to you... by you... How could you? What will you do next?

Run TMD. Run and never comeback. You destroy what others build. You destroy our hope.

By now, you know everything you need to know to rebuild your life. Use that knowledge if you're at all capable.

I am sure you'll find a way to use my post for your own benefit. I know I am just giving you more ammo. Use it wisely. You will receive no more. Save your time replying. I won't read any of your threads from now on.

BigStar

P.S.

There, I just fed the troll again. How many times have I told myself not to do it... Live and learn.

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 08:00 AM: Message edited by: BigStar ]</small>