I've been reflecting on something for awhile now.

Should we be "radically honest" with our spouses repeatedly if what we tell them will hurt them, no matter how you word it?

How many of you have spouses that for whatever reason, have regrets about the paths they have chosen in their lives? (Ok, I see all the hands going up and hear the "doesn't everybody"?)

But what I mean is - they have regrets to the extent that it impairs YOUR ability to feel safe, secure, and really enjoy life and your M? A spouse that externalizes and projects their hurts onto others? Who does not accept personal responsibility for choices THEY made and blames others for the condition of their life? Who also makes little or no effort to change this pattern?

It seems obvious to ME that WS's are inherently selfish, that's why there are so many BS's.

But the spouse I am referring to is the type who's disappointment is voiced outwardly (although with some attempt at sensitivity) frequently enough that it impairs their partners enjoyment of life in general, and keeps the partner doubting the committment of the spouse, and the future of the M.
In a sense, doomed to living a "half" life.

I'm not talking about a "mood", but rather a reoccurring, underlying energy in the M.

Ok - it's obvious I am speaking about my H.

Here's some personal background to explain why I am struggling with this:
- My H was military when we met and married. He was happy and enthusiastic about our wedding, no sign of regrets.
- A year later, H is due to re-enlist in military, (which I encouraged) and instead he decides to get out. Totally his decision.
- We moved from his last duty station to my hometown after much discussion as to where to live. We both agreed it made the most sense to move to where I had siblings and a large extended family, and he did not. Again, no obvious resistance.
- We had a child (wanted, but unplanned) in our 4th year of marriage. H was extremely happy and proud to be a parent.
- The profession that he's been in for 14 yrs now is not one he would have chosen, but it has been steady and somewhat lucrative.

So this "regret" issue comes up again for us this past weekend, when a guy friend from high school emails him and wants to catch up with him and talk. From what I know, this guy was H's best friend and H has spoken about him thoughout our marriage.

My H tells me to ignore the email, which I think is rude. My H says, "Well, if I'm never going to see him and hang out with him, what's the point?" (This guy is in the midwest, we are on the west coast) It may be just a "guy thing", but my H disregards email and phone as a means of communication.

So then he says, "Ok, respond to the email.... tell him I'm in F-ing Washington and I'm doing F-ing _____ for work." He says it with so much contempt that he is almost spitting the words out.

Hearing this is painful for me, and it's not the first time. It's not that I am expecting him to just shut up and pretend to be happy, but when do you draw the line at using stuff like this to hurt your spouse? I don't want him to lie and say everything is sunshine & roses, but damn, his life is not that bad - he just won't acknowledge it. The intensity of the underlying resentment is what worries me.

I know he hates where we live - I have offered to move.
I know he dislikes his job - I have encouraged him to change careers and have given him ideas for self-employment.
I know he regrets getting married - I have offered to divorce him with no contest.

He saw himself as a career military man... then I came along and "wrecked" his life? I "dragged" him to Washington? He "had to" take the job he is in? He didn't "want" to be a father?

I am fearful when I try to look to the future. How can I invest my heart into this when he makes it seem to friends as if he's just "serving time"?

Will I ever get to live a "full" life?

Shelle

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: ShelleBelle66 ]</small>

Be honest with him about how his words make you feel.

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Oscar the Grouch ]</small>

john39, I have told him how it makes me feel. He says he is the one being honest.

He said something else that has stuck with me - "This isn't the life I wanted to live."
What is a spouse suppose to do with that?

I've been supportive, I've encouraged change, but I am getting older and my future happiness & security is not something I want toyed with.

I know there are no guarantees in life.
I just don't know how much longer I can continue to be the "up" to his constant "downs".

I'm thinking it might be a mid-life thing... ??

Shelle

Hi Oscar,

"If we have to "repeatedly" tell someone something that is bothering us there is a problem, and not necessarily with the "teller". Why does he have to keep telling you over and over?"
He doesn't have to tell me over & over - I have been supportive of him making the changes that would make him feel better about his life, even if it means we are no longer together.

"I don't. My wife is wonderfully happy and fulfilled in her career. I am the one that has regrets."
What do you regret? Is it similar to my H?

"UH-HUH. I would love to hear the explanation behind this statement."
I believe selfishness and self-centeredness is a root problem in most WS's personalities. JMHO

"Why does it make so much sense to live by your family instead of his?"
I have siblings and a large extended family.
He was adopted and his only living relative was his adoptive mother, who he had already broken ties with. And finally, my father had just died of cancer a month before we had to make the decision on where to live.
But honestly, I told him I would live anywhere - and that was true. Even some random city that neither of us was from. I did not insist we go back to my hometown, I think he felt it was the "right" thing to do.

"If it's "not one he would have chosen", then who chose it, and why does he stay in it?"
He had several months to find a job, no stress. He took one of the first ones and while no longer with that company, he is still in the same industry. I guess he stays in it because he is afraid he cannot get anything better. He's not a risk taker that way.

"You "know" all this stuff. Has he told you? Or are you assuming?"
No assumptions necessary - he has said it loud & clear several times over the years. Again, I have offered change - he refuses to take me up on it.

"Personally, I get the impression that he feels like he has no control over his life. He feels, whether or not it is justified, that YOU are making all of his decisions for him; or he is unhappy with himself for not making known what he really wanted when all these decisions were made."
We made all those decisions jointly. I even stepped back and let him make the final decisions, thinking that was what I was suppose to do as a wife. I think he believed he was doing the "right" things and pleasing me. He had no idea how it would make him feel later in life.
I can understand & respect that - it is the unwillingness to do anything but complain about it that gets to me. Everyone has options.

"Just a thought....maybe you should stop telling him what you are willing to do, or think he should do, and ASK HIM what he wants to do. No suggestions, no advice, no comments. Just ask and see what he says. Ask him how he sees his life now, how he thought it would be, and what HE would like to do to get closer to those dreams."
I have been doing this more lately, and the frustrating thing is - he defers back to ME!
He just won't take responsibility for any decision having been his - but has no problem blaming any results on me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Refuses to talk about dreams, claims to not have any.

Thanks for your ideas, I appreciate you taking the time to post.

Shelle

In your tag line, you say "Recovery going very well." How do you measure this?

Could he be clinically depressed?

<small>[ September 29, 2003, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

A.M.-
I haven't thought of it in awhile, but my intention when putting in the tagline was that we were dealing with the A very well at that time.

The A was the problem that initially brought me to MB, but these other issues are part of the problem that may have led my H to have the A, so I am trying to work thru them as well.

I would not be suprised at all if he was depressed. But getting this man to go to a doctor would take an act of congress. He hasn't been to a doctor or dentist unless injured since he got out of the military 14 years ago. Thinks he's indestructable, I guess.

Shelle

<small>[ September 29, 2003, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: ShelleBelle66 ]</small>

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: ShelleBelle66 ]</small>

Shelle -

In my own life I wanted to pursue the dream of music and stardom... I felt an urgency... a neccessity if you will... to provide for my wife and child and made the decision to redirect my career path.

Within my mind I have resentment even though I know it isn't logical, there's that lingering question. What if?

I think everyone has that to some extent.

Only you know your life with him. Anything else is conjecture and worse... a red herring.

Don't go down the path of "whatever you want dear" there is only a breeding ground for more resentment there.

I believe Dr. Harvey talks about not making decisions that both spouses don't fully agree upon. That's not covered by you offering to move to neutral ground with him... that's just you being the martyr.

For some reason now... he feels like playing the part of the martyr. Whether you believe it is justified or that you believe you were fair in the past is moot.

His perceptions in some areas of your life together don't appear to be in line with yours. I think that is where you have to start.

If there is anything I've learned in my own little madness, it's that as soon as I believe I know the source of my own discontent that's my queue to look deeper.

Stop looking at him, for now, and look at you. avoid the knee-jerk reaction to say... "I'm fine. It's not me" It's always you Shelle just as much as it's always him.

You two are walking rough terrain but you're not holding hands right now... so sometimes the terrain presents itself to each of you individually and you make decisions that move you further from eachother for a time... then suddenly you find yourselves side by side again but now there's that little kernel in the back of your minds that wonders what just happened back there... sounds to me like the two of you have been collecting those seeds for a long time now.

Maybe you can't do anything about that collection of doubts except set it aside. But maybe if you start holding hands, you'll both start seeing that elusive path in all marriages that takes more work but reaps fullness of life.

-TMD

TMD, thanks for dropping by - I appreciate you input and thought you could relate to this.

(BTW, on your thread - when I said I'd come back when I was in a better mood - I meant that my own situation had me in that mood, it wasn't you.Just wanted to clarify. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

You had dreams and have managed to fit the dream into your life - your music is not just your hobby, and you have a music-related job if I remember correctly.

My H is very black/white, right/wrong, all/nothing kind of guy. If he cannot be a full-time soldier during war-time with all the action,he doesn't want to do it at all.

A couple years after he got out of the military, I encouraged him to join the reserves becuase I could tell how much he missed that lifestyle. He joined and quit after about a month - said it was "boring".

Even though it was supplementing our income, and would have counted towards a military retirement for him, which he often regrets giving up. I think this is becoming more of an issue for several reasons: his A and trip down memory lane last year, the war in Iraq and his wishing that he was there, and he is approaching the age that if he HAD stayed in the military, he would be able to retire.

But looking at his real life, he has a wife, kid, mortgage, etc... can't run off and play soldier, and is in a career that is so physically demanding that he knows he cannot do it past about age 45 or so.

I understand it, I just don't always like to hear about it. (My, that sounded selfish, didn't it?)
I guess I feel a bit helpless to his apathetic attitude toward positive change, and as his spouse, I feel somewhat responsible for his discontent.

"His perceptions in some areas of your life together don't appear to be in line with yours. I think that is where you have to start."
I think we are in-line about our current situation, it's just we disagree on how we got here. He re-wrote our history to his own liking last year during the A, and cannot seem to turn that around.

"If there is anything I've learned in my own little madness, it's that as soon as I believe I know the source of my own discontent that's my queue to look deeper."
I think the source of my discontent is MY inability to make HIM happy. (yes, I know how stupid that is and know all the sayings about how you can't make someone else happy, but I still buy into it subconsciously) I see myself as a failure as a wife and partner when he voices these regrets. I hate that about myself and am trying to work on it, but it gets me sometimes.

"Stop looking at him, for now, and look at you. avoid the knee-jerk reaction to say... "I'm fine. It's not me" It's always you Shelle just as much as it's always him."
Oh, I know it's me... see my previous answer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I don't think I'm fine, I know I have alot of issues too. I just don't voice them as much as he does - I don't see the point in hurting him with my regrets (and I DO have them).

"Maybe you can't do anything about that collection of doubts except set it aside. But maybe if you start holding hands, you'll both start seeing that elusive path in all marriages that takes more work but reaps fullness of life."
I have set them aside, time & time again... thinking he would accept his life and possibly even try to make it better - to incorporate some of what he wants into his future. It just seems like he/we are stuck in the same old rut. And I know you meant the hand-holding part figuratively, but he literally won't hold my hand, thinks it is "silly" and "unecessary".

I see the path, TMD, I'm just afraid that at the fork up ahead that he will head one way and I will be alone going the other.

Thanks for your thoughts.
I've got to get back to work.
I'll try to stop by your thread tonight and give you a proper response.

Take Care,
Shelle

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: Oscar the Grouch ]</small>

Don't bother on my thread Shelle. It all about actions now. It up to me and I get that now.

As far as your situation is concerned, your still internalizing. You feel like you've done everything right and you don't get why the outcome is off kilter.

My mistake in the beginning was alowing all the little things to just build up unresolved and accept that as what marriage is about... accepting all the little disappointments along the way... believing you're strong enough to absorb the little injustices... and sometimes the big ones too... No one is that strong.

Marriage is a team sport. If the players aren't using the same playbook and on the same play at the same time... well you get it.

Something is eating at him Shelle and it may not be what you think...

You are frustrated. So is he. Find a way to find out why without LBing. No small task. I'm king of LBers as we know.

Are you still attempting 15 hours a week together or are you falling into status quo?

Wondering is all.

-TMD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
<strong>Shelle,

These boards have no place, IMHO, for judgemental name-calling. Perhaps, just perhaps, this gives a little insight into why there is such trouble with "radical honesty" in your life.

Oscar</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well - for my part as a current WS who is not doing a very effective job of moving into recovery... I can state with conviction that I am inherantly selfish.

TMD stands before the podium and facing the crowd says:

"My name is TMD. I am an adulterer and I am inherantly selfish."

Look folks... instead of jumping on a single button, how 'bout if we look at the whole picture that's been painted and remember that people are here looking for help... not more pain.

-TMD

Just practicing what AD preaches.....

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 10:12 PM: Message edited by: Oscar the Grouch ]</small>

Shelle,

If I understand your original question... You are asking whether your H should do what he is doing - rather than if you should do what you are doing.

Does it matter?

I mean, if we say "no, he shouldn't do that", is it going to change anything?

But assuming that the answer matters to somebody it seems like an interesting thing for us to discuss here...

.......1......

There is a word in the language : "Malcontent".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">American Heritage® Dictionary <strong> malcontent
NOUN: 1. A chronically dissatisfied person. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We have such a word because it seems that there are such people. Perhaps your H is one of them.

Perhaps this isn't a permanent condition. I'm thinking that it is often the case that a person is unhappy, but they are not really in touch with themselves so they don't know why they are unhappy. So, they attribute their unhappiness to whatever condition or person or situation or thing who/which is at hand.

My W, for example, has had a very hard life.

All of her painful and traumatic experiences have lasting effects - but she attributes her unhappiness to me.

Hey, I'm far from perfect - and maybe even a well-adjusted woman who had grown up in peace and comfort in a loving home would have some problems with me, but I'm not that bad.

......2.....

As unpleasant as it seems, I think it is neccesary for us to express our disappointments to our spouses. I certainly don't enjoy my W's long tirades about this and that, but if she held them in - thinking all those thoughts without telling me - then I would be completely out of touch with her. Likewise, your H is suffering in some way. It may seem to you that it is unreasonable for him to suffer, but the reality is that he is suffering. I think it is better that you know that than not know it.

.......3........

I do think part of your H's resentment comes from not doing POJA. We cannot control our resentment. If we do something we don't want to do - even to please somebody else, we can't control the engines of resentment (taker) within us. So, we've got to avoid doing things with which we don't enthusiastically agree. Since your H doesn't protect himself against that, you have to help protect him. I know I've gone far down that path myself - saying "yes dear, whatever you want" (I don't use that exact phrase) far too often. Now, I resent many things - but really it's not my W's fault. I should have said "no".

Q: Do you do anything that might make your H feel that it is unsafe to say "no" to you?

Q: Do you do things that help your H to feel safe saying "no" to you?

Q: Does your H come from a background where he felt safe saying "no"? (I would guess that he didn't get to say that very often in the military.)

Unless each party feels safe to say "no", or says it anyway, each forced "yes" will build resentment - which will come out later.

-AD

<small>[ October 01, 2003, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: AD. ]</small>

Oscar, when I first read your posts a few minutes ago, (that are now gone?) I was suprised to think that someone may have had such a strong response to what I had said in my original post and feel the need to leave my thread and never speak to me again. Wow.

But you know what? I just went back and re-read my first post, and you have a point - that comment does not really fit into my question. I think I was trying to describe a generic spouse, then also describe my own spouse, and the two didn't mix well.

"These boards have no place, IMHO, for judgemental name-calling."
I did not "call names", I made a general statement based on MY personal opinion of WS's behavior. As a BS, I tend to be a bit biased that way.

"Perhaps, just perhaps, this gives a little insight into why there is such trouble with "radical honesty" in your life."
Possibly... I will ponder that one a bit.

My intention was not to push anyone's "buttons", but I have been known to (check with TMD - he & I go back & forth regularly with that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Although when I've had one of my buttons "pushed", I usually come to the conclusion it was because something was said that hit just a little "too close to home".

If I had let that feeling scare me off when it first happened, I would not have stayed involved in TMD's thread, or many others.

So I thank you for expressing your opinion.

Take Care,
Shelle

Shelle,

You have shown yourself to be very courteous, even when people responding to your posts (me) aren't. Please accept my apology for speaking when I was emotional about this issue.

You have your right to your opinion, and I respect that. There is an important post by a woman named Way2 that talks about staying away from posts that push your buttons too badly. I need to heed that advice, at least until I'm farther down the road.

Thank you for being nice about it, and I will stay out of your threads until I can talk about them rationally.

Good luck with your life. There are a lot of people here to help you.

Oscar

TMD,

"As far as your situation is concerned, your still internalizing. You feel like you've done everything right and you don't get why the outcome is off kilter."
I'm not so arrogant to think that I have been RIGHT with everything I've tried, it's just that I have run out of ideas on what to DO. Maybe that's the problem... I don't need to DO anything... just let HIM deal with himself and work on ways of not letting it get to me. It's always there, nagging in the back of my mind though...

"My mistake in the beginning was alowing all the little things to just build up unresolved and accept that as what marriage is about... accepting all the little disappointments along the way... believing you're strong enough to absorb the little injustices... and sometimes the big ones too..."
Yeah, me too....
I kept saying to myself - "oh that's not big enough to complain about", or "it's not worth risking a fight over it". I should have taken more chances at honest communication and I wouldn't feel like I am playing "catch-up" as I do now.

"Marriage is a team sport. If the players aren't using the same playbook and on the same play at the same time... well you get it."
And, in our case, I often wonder... "how can we be on the same team if we both have one eye on the scoreboard at all times?"

"Something is eating at him Shelle and it may not be what you think..."
Ok, in my current state of mind, this sounds ominous - please clarify. ( I am really hoping you mean that he may just be upset that the Bears lost to the Packers last night, but I doubt it.)

"You are frustrated. So is he. Find a way to find out why without LBing. No small task. I'm king of LBers as we know."
I'd need a non-LB'ing translator of some sort to make a real go at this one. I know that's what MC's are for, but ours was pretty pathetic and I don't think H will go for that again.

"Are you still attempting 15 hours a week together or are you falling into status quo?"
On average, we probably get the 15 hours, but I need to review the definition of that... I think we get the quantity, but the quality is definitely lacking.
How about you?

"Well - for my part as a current WS who is not doing a very effective job of moving into recovery... I can state with conviction that I am inherantly selfish.

TMD stands before the podium and facing the crowd says:

"My name is TMD. I am an adulterer and I am inherantly selfish."

Look folks... instead of jumping on a single button, how 'bout if we look at the whole picture that's been painted and remember that people are here looking for help... not more pain."
Thanks for that.
It's hard for me to organize my thoughts when trying to quickly get them typed. The more I post, the more I am discovering that someone, somewhere, at any time, my be offended by something I say, no matter how I intended it to sound.

Ok - so since I have your permission to not respond on your thread, here's a little something I was going to add to my post over there...

DOCTOR MY EYES ~ Jackson Browne
Doctor, my eyes have seen the years
And the slow parade of fears without crying
Now I want to understand

I have done all that I could
To see the evil and the good without hiding
You must help me if you can

Doctor, my eyes
Tell me what is wrong
Was I unwise to leave them open for so long

'Cause I have wandered through this world
And as each moment has unfurled
I've been waiting to awaken from these dreams
People go just where they will
I never noticed them until I got this feeling
That it's later than it seems

Doctor, my eyes
Tell me what you see
I hear their cries
Just say if it's too late for me

Doctor, my eyes
Cannot see the sky
Is this the PRICE for having learned how not to cry.

Take Care,
Shelle

AD,
"If I understand your original question... You are asking whether your H should do what he is doing - rather than if you should do what you are doing."
Yes, my original intent was to discuss whether or not being honest must be valued above the feelings or needs of the spouse that the honesty is being communicated to.

"Does it matter?"
Maybe not in the grand scheme of things, but it mattered to me when I posted it.

"I mean, if we say "no, he shouldn't do that", is it going to change anything?"
No, it won't change anything in my M. I was looking for the possibility of this being more common than it feels to me.

quote:
----------------------------------------------
American Heritage® Dictionary malcontent
NOUN: 1. A chronically dissatisfied person.
----------------------------------------------
We have such a word because it seems that there are such people. Perhaps your H is one of them."
I believe he could be.

"Perhaps this isn't a permanent condition. I'm thinking that it is often the case that a person is unhappy, but they are not really in touch with themselves so they don't know why they are unhappy. So, they attribute their unhappiness to whatever condition or person or situation or thing who/which is at hand."
Oh H knows he is unhappy, he claims it - "Don't expect me to be happy." It's his eternal struggle with himself. Seems to not want to allow himself to enjoy life or the people around him.

Why do they turn on the ones who love them most? Why must we prove ourselves over & over?
My H was also adopted & he had a very rough adolescence period with much emotional pain.
I have tried to be supportive & understanding, I just get weary sometimes that after 15 years he still seems to see me as the "enemy". I thought I was different, special, to him. Do you feel like this with your W? (Sorry, I don't know your background)

"As unpleasant as it seems, I think it is neccesary for us to express our disappointments to our spouses. I certainly don't enjoy my W's long tirades about this and that, but if she held them in - thinking all those thoughts without telling me - then I would be completely out of touch with her. Likewise, your H is suffering in some way. It may seem to you that it is unreasonable for him to suffer, but the reality is that he is suffering. I think it is better that you know that than not know it."
I totally agree that it is better to say it than to not, but once it is said and no action occurs to change it, do you just have to keep listening to the same thing over & over? It's like he clings to this just to have something to complain about... if he acknowleged that these were HIS choices, he'd have to find something else to complain about, or - oh my - maybe consider happiness??

"I do think part of your H's resentment comes from not doing POJA. We cannot control our resentment. If we do something we don't want to do - even to please somebody else, we can't control the engines of resentment (taker) within us. So, we've got to avoid doing things with which we don't enthusiastically agree. Since your H doesn't protect himself against that, you have to help protect him. I know I've gone far down that path myself - saying "yes dear, whatever you want" (I don't use that exact phrase) far too often. Now, I resent many things - but really it's not my W's fault. I should have said "no"."
He has said the same thing. He is p*ssed at himself for making the choices that he did.
But again I ask - so those around him have to suffer for it? Where is his responsibility in this?

"Q: Do you do anything that might make your H feel that it is unsafe to say "no" to you?"
I don't think so, he has no problem with telling me "no" to many things. Maybe he says "no" on the small things because he feels that he has "given" me the big things? How will I know when I am paid up?

"Q: Do you do things that help your H to feel safe saying "no" to you?"
Oh he feels safe allright. I think it's just him, not anything I do to make him safe.

"Q: Does your H come from a background where he felt safe saying "no"? (I would guess that he didn't get to say that very often in the military.)"
No - he was adopted as an infant, felt abandoned, was reminded that he was "lucky" to have a family, adoptive dad died when he was 12, adoptive mom was a emotional wreck after that and was a tyrant in his teenage years. He joined the military to escape her.

"Unless each party feels safe to say "no", or says it anyway, each forced "yes" will build resentment - which will come out later."
I think we both have taken the lazy way out and internally decided most things were just not worth discussing. Small-talk, yes - serious talk about us and future? Not often enough.
You have to be willing to take some risks in communication. There are things I wish I had said years ago, but I accept that I didn't have the courage then and they are irrelevant now. So do I have the right to harass my H with them anytime I feel like it? It's such a fine line to walk....

Thanks AD, I appreciate your input.

Take Care,
Shelle

<small>[ October 02, 2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: ShelleBelle66 ]</small>