double post

<small>[ October 01, 2003, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: vwguy ]</small>

triple post

<small>[ October 01, 2003, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: vwguy ]</small>

hhh

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:14 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DIAMOND GIRL: Counseling is not happening, IC or MC. We have no funds for that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">check your health insurance. in many cases it will provide for individua counselling. a good counsellor can then work with you in prescribing the marital version, which may then be covered by your policy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if anything can I do on my own to regain my ability to feel and care? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">this doens't happen without your participation. *whip sez, putting on his captain obvious suit*

you regain your ability to feel and care by choosing to do so and then acting upon it the right way. vwguy really said it best: your marital woes have to stop somewhere and by someone. why not make it you?

this can be a tough crowd here -- for good reason. we have seen and heard it all from our own wayward spouses. what sounds perfectly logical and forthright in your head sounds quite different to we who have lived on the other side.

you have quite a lot of baggage you're carrying around (not making any judgements here ... just summarizing what you've stated). you've been an ow, your husband has been unfaithful, now you are cheating again.

these sorts of issues don't resolve themselves without you deciding to work hard to overcome them.

you've given a list of things you can't do or won't do or that your h isn't doing. it's simply wrong thinking -- excuses to continue your current path. change your thinking and change your path. *boy this suit is hot*

take some time to read everyhting over at the content portion of the site -- away from the forums. it will really help you understand things a lot better. come here for occasional guidance -- because the people here have a lot to offer when you're ready to learn.

you know something isn't right. really, it's as plain as the nose of your face. now just choose to do something positive about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DIAMOND GIRL:
Resillient - I can assure you it was not my intention to come across as "smug". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you want to .... you can go back to your 1st post, and change the title of this thread.

You may wish to title this thread "I am lost& hurt& need help" ..... instead of "You all are not going to like me or this".

Do you approach your H with an opening remark as defensive as the title of this thread.... ?

Your hurt is obvious.
So is your defiant and defensive attitude.
This leaves no opening for anyone to really get close to you.

Does this MB conversation look similar to the conversations you have with H?

Pep

hihhhh

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

DG:

Before I read page 2, I wanted 2 respond 2 this post of yours. Hopefully, it will be of some help in clarifying where many of us are coming from.

"I've heard that you folks are pretty harsh here and now I see why."

I'm curious who told you we're harsh? I don't know if you answered that 2uestion on this page, but maybe you did.

"Is this how you treat all trying to reach out? I was just trying to be honest about my situation and you react as if it was personal to you."

It might SEEM like we're attacking you, but that's the trouble with the internet. You can't see the empathy and compassion that's coming with the often "tough love" replies you're getting. I think that's because this IS personal. 2 you, 2 us, 2 everyone. You'd be surprised at how many si2ations on here are nearly identical 2 your own (though mine isn't one of them, there are similarities).

"So my feelings have never been felt by anyone else?"

And my point is that your feelings have been felt by NEARLY EVERYONE ELSE on these boards. That's why the replies sound so personal - it IS personal. Bear with us, okay?

"Nobody is perfect and I admit I am far from it and sorry if my truth is so far fetched to you but unfortunately it is truth."

And this is appreciated, believe me. But I would like 2 come 2 your defense. You aren't perfect, sure. Neither am I. But you are NOT far from it. Don't belittle yourself. You are a person deserving of all the love you believe you deserve (and can give). I've seen 2 many people put themselves down as a form of "punishment" for what they've "done." That won't help you heal. ...and it's not true.

"I did express that deep down I would like to change the way I feel about everything but for some reason I just can't."

Recovering from an A, yours or your H's, is a PROCESS. You can't expect 2 do it instantly. It will take time, communication, love, soul-searching and ...time! ;o)

"I feel like I am unable to feel anymore or care. How do I get that back?"

By working through your problems. What would you like your M 2 be? Figure that out and MAKE IT in2 that. Stop running away. You (and all the rest of us on this planet) can't grow by trying 2 circumnavigate our problems. We MUST work THROUGH them. Face your shortcomings. Confront your H with his. Hash it out (without violence, of course). Find out if you even WANT 2 be M'd, and follow your heart whatever you decide. At the same time, ask yourself what your integrity means 2 you? Do you want 2 continue 2 have 2 keep your guard up about what you're doing with your OM? ...I didn't think so. So, the process can begin.

"I'm selfish???? I can't see it that way b/c I feel H was the one being selfish so maybe I feel why should I consider his feelings when he didn't consider mine?"

You are both selfish.

"I asked him how he would feel if I did this him - he said if that's what made me happy, then so be it. HUH??? How would you feel if your spouse felt that way about you? "

My W asked me once, during her A, if she should file for a DV. Now, mind you, I didn't even know she was having an A, in spite of all the hints that she was, for YEARS prior 2 that 2uestion. Years before, she had said that we didn't need a piece of paper 2 say we were M'd. So, the 2uestion about DV, coming out of the blue, sparked an angry response from me. I think I said "Heck, you didn't need a piece of paper 2 say we were married, why should you need one for a DV? When you leave, just please let me know, so I'll know we're DV'd!"

That was an uncaring, angry, hurt response on my part. I was an A$$ for being sarcastic when she was hurting so. But was she being selfish? Hell yes! Does that matter 2 me right now? NO. What's important 2 me (and should be 2 you) is what you and your H want in the way of a fu2re. You'll find that a lot of us behave the way you and your H are behaving right now. Geting out of the rut you're in takes a concerted effort - but then anything worthwhile does. Do you want 2 be challenged 2 be a better person? Or do you want 2 just go out and get "playthings" 2 satiate your unmet needs?

I'm not intentionally being harsh. Please keep coming back.

♥ kid 2long

DG,

You want it all. You can't have have it all, at least not this way. Me me me me me. Won't work.

People do change. Tough. In a marriage, there is a "for worse" part that follows the "for better." Guess where you are.

It would be interesting to know how long you knew each other before you were married, and what your relationship was like then. Love grows, fades, returns, matures, mellows and finally becomes something grand, like a wine. Grape juice is sweet and tart and gets your attention. You want to drink it up by the gallons, but eventually it gets heavy and sour and tiresome. To make it great it's first got to go through a lot of time being downright disgusting. Guess where you are.

I know this doesn't answer questions, or at least give you the clear "turn left" kind of answer that would be comforting. Sorry.

You are in line for a lot of hurt. No matter what you do, you're heart will ache and you will feel loss, and you will be torn, wrended even. No wool over your eyes, and no sweety sweety talk. Get ready for a hurtin'.

"Turn Left" answer: Drop at least one of your men. Dropping both could be good also. You can think of it as cutting your losses, or maybe simplifying. Two is always harder to manage than one. If neither can fulfill you, is it their fault, or yours? What do you expect? Why should THEY fulfill you? After all, they're just men. You have to be responsible for you.

Sux, don't it.

DG:

"Is it possible for me to take the lead by myself and hopefully H will change?"

Yes. It's harder 2 do it "alone", but it can be done (I did it for over a year and a half).

"If I saw that he could change, I would have no problem leaving OM. I really am reaching out here."

This WILL NOT WORK. You cannot wean yourself off the OM. You must cut him out of your life utterly and completely. Please don't do what my W (and most others here) did and "keep him in the wings in case your H doesn't measure up" (no joke, my W said almost those exact words 2 our MC 3 months after D-day). Cold turkey is the only way.

All my best,
-kid 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DIAMOND GIRL:
<strong>Pep - my title is what it is because I pretty much knew how my story would be perceived. I don't think it's possible to change the title is it? Besides it aroused your curiousity enough didn't it? Unfortunately all I get is judgement and the looking down your noses at me with wrinkled brows. Is your attitude reflective of your R towards your spouse? By your tone I'm guessing you were/are the BW and you are either still in recovery struggling to get through your anger stage or you/spouse called it quits and are now divorced. Hmm.

I'm leaving work now. I'll talk to you tomorrow.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good luck to you.

Diamond Girl,

Relationships change through the years. That strong euphoric feeling that comes with a relationship does not last forever. Someday you may look at the OM the way you are looking at your H now. I have been in a relationship npw for two years we have gone through many stages already but that doesn't mean I love him any less.

Jill

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"We have no funds for that."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you think counseling is costly just talk to a divorce attorney to get an idea about the amount of money a divorce is going to cost you and your H. Counseling may not be cheap but it is nowhere as costly as a divorce.

Diamondgirl. you said H was on being selfish and ?
Well, what you have done is involve yourself in a revenge affair!
And you can't justify it no matter how you color it!
Suggestions for you if you continue? Want to, feel good, do not feel guilt?
DIVORCE YOUR HUSBAND AND STAY SINGLE
If you can feel no guilt, remorse or see the wrong of this, then why not just give over to complete reprobation and be done with it?
Now, If you want to stay married, love your H at all, then it's time to quit the damned games and get into counseling for yourself and get him to go too. And children?They deserve a lot better than you two are dishing them.
I can tell you the OM is not capable of giving you anything your own H can't give you if you'd rebuild your marriage.
If that isn't what you want, then get on with it, but get divorced. H may have cheated on you before, but how do you face yourself just by acting like he does?
Where are any moral values, or self worth you feel for yourself?
If you don't have any, then you're right there ready to do the bachelorette bit and not made for marriage.
Some people aren't. All they do when they marry is mess up many lives.
When you start to feel guilt, ashamed, and want your marriage to work, then this is your place.
If you want people to agree with your feelings, those who feel nothing wrong as you do, then you can go into Facereality.com.
There are mixture there, OW/OM, BS's and they will have one forum that will allow you to do as you wish while having others back you with Kudos!
Many here have rebuilt marriages, many in the recovery stages too. Lot of help on this forum.
But you are like the addict, no one can force you to get rehab until you recognize you need it!
LouLou

P.S. and for setting the record straight. I was a BW. My H dumped OW because I'm way ahead of her in the making him happy game! And morals, character and Um, as he said, much more compatible. He admits he was the fool. When you can do that, you might accept you will get told things you won't like until you stop your A and start working on your marriage.
How dare you bash people here as being divorced and their spouses can't stand them.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to spread your legs honey! However, I think that might be where they'd find yours! so buzz off!
But you could use a brain!You have nothing to offer obviously or you wouldn't have to come here, brag about how you feel nothing then dump on others. Since you throw things in BS's faces here, how come your H cheated on you? Maybe he found someone with a better attitude?
Let OM use you up then dump your butt and I can see you begging H to forgive and save your A!!
GRRRRRRRR. I'm not here to save anything, mine is in tact and working swell as of right this minute.

Dear Diamond:

No judgements just a question besides the other child why are you so mad at your H? You said you had a revenge affair. Is this not more properly a rerevenge affair as you had an affair on your H before you were married. IMO if you were in a committed relationship with your H and he was under the impression that you two were exclusive then it was an affair you had prior to your M.

Given that why the outrage at your H? How is his A any different than your two A's? If you can figure that out maybe your attitude toward your H and his actions may change and you both can work on the M? In fact if you can change yourself (the only person we can change) you may find your H's attitude may change.

A person with no feeling about what they are doing is truly a sad and scary thing.

All my best

Jack

Originally posted by DIAMOND GIRL:
I can assure you I am not a troll. If only that were true and none of my life were not. I've heard that you folks are pretty harsh here and now I see why.[/qb]

DG,
How did you come to hear about MB and this board?

This isn't a question just out of curiosity. You see that will help us see how to help you because you said:

[b]DG: Is this how you treat all trying to reach out? I was just trying to be honest about my situation and you react as if it was personal to you.

Orchid: See you also are jumping to conclusions. Remember we don't know you from any other poster. If you are reaching it, it is not clear.

So for your sake and others, please provide more info.

DG: So my feelings have never been felt by anyone else? Nobody is perfect and I admit I am far from it and sorry if my truth is so far fetched to you but unfortunately it is truth. they say truth can be stranger than fiction. Anyway. I did express that deep down I would like to change the way I feel about everything but for some reason I just can't. What has happened to make me feel like this. I feel stuck in a dead marriage. Everything else is ok but that one thing that makes it special like no other died. I feel like I am unable to feel anymore or care. How do I get that back?

Orchid: These are valid questions but to give a response without getting a good background may be misleading.

DG: I'm selfish???? I can't see it that way b/c I feel H was the one being selfish so maybe I feel why should I consider his feelings when he didn't consider mine? I asked him how he would feel if I did this him - he said if that's what made me happy, then so be it. HUH??? How would you feel if your spouse felt that way about you?

Orchid: Do you think because you can't see it that is not a selfish stance? Your post appears like you have a need to get even with your H. Maybe dealing with those unresolved issues instead of making new ones may be a good start.

Is your H giving up on you for a valid reason? Is his guilt enabling you? Are you taking advantage of it? If you are, is it really making you happy?

How long has this A been going on?

Are there children and another spouse involved on either side?

L.

PLEASE READ PLEASE READ PLEASE READ

Ok, I jumped on you too - but like you i am a cheater (was) not a BS.

If you hung around and took this much crap then I believe you are really reaching out so I will put down the stick and talk to you if you want to talk to someone whose life was as messed up as yours not long ago.

OK, first off? I do get it OK?

My first post here I explained that my affair had been discovered and listed all the reasons why it was understandable and justified - BS did not want me so why should she care if i went looking elsewhere etcetera.

I hope you come back for day 2.

Look at the bottom of this post, see how many times i have posted????? I got the [censored] beat out of me a BUNCH at first.

Here's why you are getting beaten to death and here is why it is making you mad - I am going to ask you to take what i tell you on faith for a moment - If need be, post a thread titled "WS's, is 2ofakind worth listening to?".

OK, so what can I tell you worth listening to?

Your husband hurt you very, very badly by betraying you. It crushed your self-esteem and you can't figure out how not to feel empty as a result.. so rather than face it you are escaping it. OM is not hurting you, is being kind and supportive, loving, thinks you are gold... am I close?

He is valuing you when you feel devalued by your husband perhaps? Anything ringing true???

Look, I've been there. THis place has helped me a LOT. I hang around now less because I need it and more because I would like to help someone else the same way I was helped.

If what I said is pretty close and you would like to know WHAT helped me drop a response, If you don't think I am anywhere near the mark, ignore me. No interest in arguing with you.

Now - about the beating you took.
First, affairs are devastating to BS's OK? They read your post and hear their spouse, not you. I will find a link for you where I got beaten to death a long time ago when my question was legit and I was already out of the affair and trying to help - the same folks who lashed out joke with me about it now. But learn from that - see it as evidence of how destructive affairs are to not only the betrayed spouse, but the cheater.

My question for you
Look, if you want to divorce and start all over and forget your husband due to his betrayal of you - no problem, but go to the divorcing board for better advice.

If, as I suspect, you are asking yourself "What the hell happened, i want my life back" Well, we can help and promise not to beat you (much).

What says you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Husband has OC. We have no contact with OW or OC. No contact is I think mutually agreed on."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You think? Could you please be more specific?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Prior to M I cheated - H never found out. I was devastated when it happened to me. More devastated by the fact that there is a child out there of his. I think the only reason H and I managed to stay together is b/c OW now lives out of state. GOOD!

I asked him how he would feel if I did this him - he said if that's what made me happy, then so be it. HUH??? How would you feel if your spouse felt that way about you? "</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could it be possible that your H somehow resents you for his not having any contact with his OC? You know that contrary to popular beleif, not all men can simply walk away from their child(ren) without it affecting them significantly. He could be feeling guilty or depressed for not being there for his child that he hardly gives a damn about you and the marriage. I know that in his place I would be feeling pretty despondent myself being totally cut off from my child, OC or not.

<small>[ October 01, 2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

<small>[ February 04, 2005, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>