Orchid - why is it so important for you to know where I heard about MB? Is it supposed to be a secret? Or do you mean where did I hear MB'ers are harsh? I doesn't matter b/c I found out for myself the truth. I still stand by what I originally said. There were a few posters who tried to listen with unbiased ears and hearts and to them I am grateful. But to those who think harsh words are the only way to get through to someone - I can't respect or listen.

I'm sorry to say this but until you end your affair with the OM, and confess to your H about your affair things are not going to change for the better. D-day is usually the wake up call to the BS about how bad things are in the marriage and/or with the WS. If he decides that we wants to continue being married to you then it is an opportunity for him to work on changing those negative things he has been contributing to the marriage. On the other hand there is the possibility that your marriage may end if he decides that he doesn't want to remain married to you any longer BUT that can happen anyway at anytime if he comes to the conclusion that it is preferable to divorce than to continue in a marriage that is based on lies and deception.

<small>[ October 03, 2003, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">" Who would actually CHOOSE pain over pleasure?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That just may be what you H concludes if he finds out about your affair from other sources and decides to divorce you.

Keep in mind that living with a WS is no picnic for a BS, you know that, and since you are now the WS and he the BS, it stands to reason that he could probably add his list of things that he dislikes about living with you at this moment in time.

<small>[ October 03, 2003, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Hi Diamongirl,
Former WS here, looks like you and your H have alot of issues that need to be worked out. But, let me tell you, an A isn't the answer... it just complicates the existing problems even more don't you think? Have you asked your H to go to counseling? I'm sorry, I havn't read through everything, but does he know of your affair? One thing I've learned about my EA, is that keeping the secret is what kept me bound to the OM and distant from my H. Even when I did break off the R with OM, I felt numb in my marriage.

It wasn't till after it consumed me, made me emotionally and almost physically sick where my life became so out of control, that I couldn't hide it from my H anymore. Leading a doubel life requires so much extra energy. Even if your H dosn't care, don't stoop down to prove something to him. I don't know how long you've been involved in As, but they are slow silent killsers of your own self esteem and self respect... At least eventually thats what happened to me. In the beginning it is great and I had no guilt either and actually felt like I was within my right...

I hope you will get help soon, like talk to a therapist.

Take care
mj

<small>[ October 04, 2003, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: MissJ ]</small>

What are you talking about? I love my husband!/

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

DG:

You didn't read my last post 2 you did you?

"He is so full of himself that he firmly believes I would never do this to him."

I firmly believed that my W would be faithful 2 me, 2. It wasn't that I was "full of myself", I'm not. Never have been. But my W thought I was and told me so after D-day. Boy, that was a surprise! So, consider this: Your impression of what your H feels and thinks is very much a function of what you believe and interpret about him 2 justify your behavior. You'll never know the truth about him until you ASK him for it.

"His belief is no reflection of his trust in me, it's a reflection of how he feels about himself. He thinks I should be grateful he's with me."

Has he said this? Because I know my W was told that she was lucky 2 have our M. I never said that 2 her myself, in fact I considered MYSELF the lucky one 2 be M'd 2 her... ...and yet she still believed what you do about your H. Go figure.

"This is the type of thing I endure, emotional abuse. He once told me that even if I confessed to an A he wouldn't believe me."

That's emotional abuse?? No, that's him putting his head in the sand.

"If someone else told him about me, he would not believe it. He said he would have to actually catch me in the act to believe it. Says he's not a jealous person. I think he just doesn't care."

I think he's afraid, like I said earlier. Consider the position he's in if he suspects you're having an A, especially after his own experiences. I bet he KNOWS that he can't do a damned thing 2 stop you until you choose 2 stop yourself. And this would be true even if he doesn't know or even suspect you're having an A.

-kid 2long

I often accused my H of emotional abuse. It gave me justification for leaving him. In reality, he was just naive and unskilled in relationships....much like I was! It's something that comes with experience and maturity. He's wonderful now, because he knows how to be and why it's important.

--

<small>[ October 03, 2003, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"He is so full of himself that he firmly believes I would never do this to him. His belief is no reflection of his trust in me, it's a reflection of how he feels about himself. He thinks I should be grateful he's with me. This is the type of thing I endure, emotional abuse. He once told me that even if I confessed to an A he wouldn't believe me. If someone else told him about me, he would not believe it. He said he would have to actually catch me in the act to believe it. Says he's not a jealous person. I think he just doesn't care."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What people say they will do and what people actually will do (if the truth of an affair comes out) are two totally different things. Many BS here (maybe you were one of them) said at one time that "If I find that you are cheating on me with another wo/man, our marriage is over" and yet when the time came to act on what they said, they suddenly found themselves not wanting to carry out their ultimatum. The same thing with many WS's who were afraid of confessing the truth to their BS's for fear that they would leave them, were surprised that this was not the case when they finally revealed the truth to them. If you don't beleive just ask chocolate_addict and DIR (two former WW's) who just recently confessed the truth about their affairs to their BH's, and who were initially fearful that their BH's would leave them. To say they were surprised is an understatement and it just goes to show you how little they knew their respective BH's. Maybe you don't know your H as you think you do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DIAMOND GIRL:
<strong>Orchid - why is it so important for you to know where I heard about MB? Is it supposed to be a secret? Or do you mean where did I hear MB'ers are harsh? I doesn't matter b/c I found out for myself the truth. I still stand by what I originally said. There were a few posters who tried to listen with unbiased ears and hearts and to them I am grateful. But to those who think harsh words are the only way to get through to someone - I can't respect or listen.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">REASON as previously posted:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong>Originally posted by DIAMOND GIRL:
I can assure you I am not a troll. If only that were true and none of my life were not. I've heard that you folks are pretty harsh here and now I see why.</strong>

DG,
How did you come to hear about MB and this board?

This isn't a question just out of curiosity. You see that will help us see how to help you because you said:

DG: Is this how you treat all trying to reach out? I was just trying to be honest about my situation and you react as if it was personal to you.

Orchid: See you also are jumping to conclusions. Remember we don't know you from any other poster. If you are reaching it, it is not clear.

So for your sake and others, please provide more info.

L.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DG,
There is no secret here, that is why I asked you. If you recall, there was mention of 'trolls'. Stick around a while and you will see what some who troll can do. Their visits can be quite hurtful. The last group even caused a few not to feel safe. In previous years a couple of those kinds of trolls inflicted great pain on those on the preg/child board. Their futile attempts to break the spirit of those who were dealing with A and OC issues were disgusting.

So DG, many here post to new ones at times with caution. I am sure you agree this is a very painful and hurtful subject. Those who come here don't need to be subjected to further pain but the antics of an OW troll. Those trolls often come from the TOW boards. They get their kicks from making up stories then take back their posts to the TOW boards and make fun of those who try to give their honest support.

It is a sad world we live in..... one without trust, don't you think?

Your previous posts raised some question as to your intent. If someone did speak to you about this site or even of these boards you may have already prejudged us and jumped to erroneous conclusions. I was trying to head off that issue. That's all.

L.

Yes chicken soupy IS good for you!!

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

Di,

I've read your posts....and thing that strikes me most is nothing you are doing moves YOU in a position that will in the end make anything better or resolved....

You need to stop at this cross-road and decide once and for all....

Your posts are full of really negative emotions and hurts by your husband...and this is not to judge or deny those feelings....but the path you are choosing is nothing but an escape...rather than any type of action that could resolve these things....and father down you travel the less likely you will turn around and come back...

and the more you escape with the OM...the more you can avoid and or tolerate the issues at home...the longer you will live a life....pursueing shadows and reflections of a really truly able to nuturing relationship with anyone...that it is your own actions that deny you from what it is you want...what most want...

no doubt you may have mind blowing sex...but sex...sex, that's the easy part...lust and sex and excitement...easy...the other stuff is hard...

and that doesn't mean that I don't think you do not have very strong emotions going on within you or that they aren't real for the OM......it's just that they are limited in action based on the reality of an affair itself...and so even your choice to have an affair is really just placing yourself in another relationship that is unequal...or is very defined by certain facts and rules...

Is that fair to you?
Is that fair to the OM
Is it fair to your husband...

So now you are in two relationships with limitations on your access to total commitment and totaly nuturing love...

with your husband because you are shutting down...and trying and caring less..
with the OM because it can only go so far..and live so long in the dark without sunlight...

so there you are...that is what you may stand too become...
this cycle can certainly even become comfortable yet it does not serve you...the inner you very well...

For with this cycle are also the actions and choices that define you....
and eventually the reason for these choices..."my husband does this or lack of doing that...become old and tiring"...

It's easy to think that people here hate affairs because of the obvious digressions...but it's so much deeper than that...they suck because they cause great pain and damage to all involved...

ARK

Have you thought that if your H finds out about your A, that it might give him the 'justification' he needs for renewing his A with the OW?

I think the bears ajre great too!

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:21 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

DG:"I'm just having a really hard time realizing what everyone is saying is right"

Oh C'mon, I tried to spin that line of bull to myself too dear... If ya got here and you are miserable then you realize it, you just don't want to stop doing it because right now your self-esteem sucks, you are hurt and OM is adding some (false) romance and excitement and a big self-esteem boost. (Review notes on bullsh!tting a bullsh!tter)

"It's really hard when he gets right in my face. Like at our house party we had Saturday. He followed me in a bedroon, shut the door and grabbed me and kissed me like I've never been kissed before. I give in. I am weak!"

Join the club, people generally do foolish theings in moments of weakness when life sucks - but doing the wrong things makes the hole deeper and starts filling it with water.

" I want to realize this is wrong and be strong enough to enforce it but it's hard. I know in time it will happen so I hope everyone will bear with me until then"
Uhmmmm... kinda but we won't pat you on the head and say it's ok... If we did that we'd be helping you make excuses for behavior that will cause harm to a lot of people - not likely.
Motivation? Well, do you like feeling weak and wishy washy or do you see yourself as a strong, intelligent person with morals?

Your call... You are getting there, but don't tell us you are not strong enough or you want to realize what's right - you know what is right, you know this is wrong but right now doing right is less appealing.

PS> Who sold you that line about life being Easy??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>"Something real bad may have to happen to make me realize something needs to change."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By that time it may be too little too late.

When your A is over and the OM is just a distant memory, you will have to live with the decisions you make now. The decision to have/keep having an affair WILL change you forever.

Regardless of whether your H ever knows, you will know... and you will forever have to count yourself among those who have cheated and lied and acted in a selfish, disgusting manner. I am also one of those people. I'm a WS. Yes, I was a BS first, and thought myself justified in doing what I did. But I thought I must be defective because, tho I felt guilty, I didn't really feel remorseful. I didn't feel horrible about what I did for a loooong time. Then it hit me 2 years ago (7 years after A), after reading here, that I AM ONE OF THEM, a WS. I realized that I deserved to feel shame, not just for hurting my H, but because what I did WAS shameful. Only after looking at my heart and past actions through a "miscroscope" was I able to truly heal. I stuffed the pain & guilt for years because I couldn't face up to who I was and what I'd done.

I once considered my A a justified action that really wasn't THAT big a deal. I now look at it as a humiliating, degrading, dirty, self-centered decision I made. I'm forgiven, thankfully, but that doesn't change what I did.

You may not feel dirty now, but you will. The longer you make that decision to keep yourself in this situation, the worse you will feel. Get out, repent, turn your life around. With or without your H....you should stop for yourself. Stop it before you dig a hole so deep you can't see light anymore.

Lori

I hope I can keep ymy NY resolutions also!

<small>[ February 08, 2004, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: Lovely ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DIAMOND GIRL:
<strong>2ofaKind- I don't/won't expect anyone to "pat me on the head and say it's okay. I know it's not okay. How long were you in your A?
>>>> 18 months, off and on

Was it discovered or did you confess?
>>>Discovered, very very messy

How easy was recovery for you and your wife?
>>>Think root canal without novacaine initially... time, consistancy, honesty and hard work have made it a lot easier

Was your self esteem low prior to the A?
>>>Career had nosedived, had been in a bad accident, W had lost interest/respect in me - the affair was about affirmation more than anything

Hope you don't mind sharing. I guess just trying to get perspective from another man who's been there.
>>>Nope, sometimes reminding myself of the mess i made is good to help keep things on the right track
You see I think what I do know is that my H and I should separate. I can't bring myself to do that completely. I've asked him probably a million different ways if he still loves me and if he wants us to stay married etc.. and his answers are always in the positive but his actions do not always match. He gives me hope for a better future but lately I keep getting disappointed. Prior to me starting up with OM and prior to my H's D-day, OM would flirt endlessly with me for years and I always blew him off, thinking "no! It's not right. I'm not gonna do that to H" But then D-day came and all my hope and dreams were shot out of the water. I lost all respect for him as a man . For almost a year now, H has been telling me all the right things but actions are not falling in line. Sometimes he can be so good but then he acts so distant and uncaring at others. I know I need help but I can only handle one day at a time. My mind is flooded with so many thought these days it's a miracle he hasn't figured it out already.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As to the situation with your H... this sounds a little heartless but is not meant as such. Never, ever complain about what you permit. If you let it go you are doing him no favors - he will lose his marriage. Time to tell him the truth and let him know that either you both fix things or you both get out but the status quo will not do.

Alternative? stay miserable. I know it would be hard and messy to split up and I don't advocate it at all - but if you are not going to fix things then that is a lot better than what y'all are doing.

Put another way - at this point what is left to lose if you tell him the truth and let him know that it is time to tinkle or get off the pot? If you lose the marriage you have RIGHT NOW would you be losing anything? Is the potential there to have a great marriage???

If it is then it is worth working for... if it isn't??? Why be miserable.????