Hello to everyone, it's been a long time since I've posted, (looks like May) it's been very busy around here. There hasn't been much going on over the last few months as far as things to talk about here. The D has been going forward and life has settled down somewhat with my STBXWW and myself moving on with life. She got a place in town by herself to be closer to the kids and since her break-up with the last OM has been good with the kids, spending time with them when she is scheduled to and even helping me out when I get in a bind with work or something.

Like I said everything has been going pretty smoothly until a few weeks ago. My W came to me and said that she wanted to see if we could work things out. Because of her behavior up to this point I was very surprised by this. She said that she had been thinking about it for some time but held back because she didn't think there was any way I could ever forgive her for the things she has done. But as the hearing date has gotten closer she decided that she needed to try and talk to me about it. At first I really didn't take it very seriously, I was in no mood to even want to hear what she had to say, but as time has gone on she has been more pushy (not in a bad way) about it. She said she didn't want to rush me at all and that she was willing to do anything I asked of her to prove to me that she was serious. She said she didn't realize what she had with me, took it for granted, and now has realized after she's been out in the world some that she had a good life and a good man. If I would only give her a chance to show me she would prove to me that she has changed and she would never be ungrateful for what she had again.

It's taken a while but lately I've started to wonder if I shouldn't give her this chance. To be honest I don't really want to. It's taken me a long time to get to this point and I have no desire to go into this again. But it's still nagging at me. Am I being selfish to my family for not allowing her this chance? In a way I feel I've "earned" this D for going through the pain and heartache when I was trying to get her to leave the OM last winter and she refused. For months I went through this and it wasn't until I found out about the other relationships she'd been in that I decided to D her. She'd been so sure that her life with me was so unhappy and unfair to her that she had been in numerous other A with men over the last five years of our marriage and I'm supposed to believe that she's had this big turnaround in just the last couple of months? I know she's sincere when she's saying this to me but I don't know that she has it in her to be happy with ANYONE over the long term.

What if I agree to give her a chance, she does everything I ask of her, and I still can't get past all that's happened? Right now I don't think I can and that makes me feel guilty. It's like now I'm the one who doesn't want this anymore and I feel selfish in a way. I know there are no easy answers here and any way I go I'm taking a risk but I just can't see going back at this point. If it weren't for our kids the answer would be easy. Do I try if for there sake alone or am I just setting everyone up to go through this whole thing again?

Well that was a mouthful. I had more thoughts swirling around in my head than I realized. Anyway thanks for listening and any thoughts would be appreciated.

Starman I know that what I'm about to say to you will be controversial but I would suggest that in your case you go forward with the divorce. I say this because your stbxww has not really shown through her actions that her words are for real and you know the old saying actions speak louder than words. Furthermore, the finalizing of the divorce will more than be a consequence that she is going to have to live with for the rest of her life, and just MAY turn out to be the catalyst for her to make the effort to truly change, not for your wellbeing or the kids, but for her own wellbeing. Besides if she truly does change into a woman worthy of being called a W, then there is nothing that says that the two of you can't get together at another point in time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>Starman I know that what I'm about to say to you will be controversial but I would suggest that in your case you go forward with the divorce.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes indeed ... However since you have kids I would suggest you to really think hard. Send her to Steve or Jennifer ... get them to help her out and to see if this M is salvageable.

Yes, her words probably won't match her actions now but rather than give her a chance you should look at it as let her earn her chance. Let time test her intention.

However it is up to you to Dv or not and you are the one knows better where you want to steer you life. We are always here to support you.

-rh-

starman,

I agree with TMCM. And I suspect she's very unhappy that she has to be responsible for her own life now and is looking at a reconciliation so she can get her old life back. The one that was so unhealthy for you and the children. If she's sincere, she'll make the changes and seek help whether you get the divorce or not. If she's not sincere, you're all much better off with the D.

I'm curious. Are you still paying maintenance? Does she have a job? Do you think the D decree will require you to pay maintenance or her to pay CS? These things may be factors in her desire for reconciliation.

All the best to you and your children. You've had a hard road, but I think you're taking it well.

Let me clarify my bias ... I do not beleive in re-marry w/ your ExW. My church allows it but personally I don't, that is my personal R w/ HIM.

-rh-

Do you love her?

Do you trust her?

Do you respect her?

Are her values and goals in life compatable with yours?

Pep

Starman,

Never fear I will offer an opinion but first a few quotes:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This brings the number of A up to five that I can confirm. Steve said that this is a different level and has reached serial adultery status. He said that she has made these choices and that there is nothing short of her coming to me, begging forgiveness, and caving to my every demand that would be good enough to try and save this at this point. She has yet to have any serious consequences to her actions and that until she does she will continue in this behavior. I have to protect the kids and myself from her as much as possible and let her go. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Steve and I came to the conclusion that a D was the only course of action to protect myself and the kids from my WW destructive behavior. Not only the number of A she's been involved in but her total disconnect from the whole family in order to pursue her nightlife and bar buddies. He said that my wife would continue in this behavior until there were some real consequences to her behavior and that could be a long time. He said that even the D itself probably wouldn't be enough but that over time the loss of her family would be the catalyst for change. I don't know if Steve might not have been supporting me in my decision just because he knew that my mind was made up about filing for D. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, Starman does those quotes sound familiar??

Here is the only question I would ask you. Do you want to be married to the woman that stands before you? If not, what therapy, what actions could change your mind. If there is nothing, get the D and don't look back. YOU EARNED YOUR D and so did your W.

Finally what do the kids think? I forget the ages, but was the life you were living with your W helping them??

Is the bar scene out of the picture? Or is she just between OM and this divorce is an end of things??

I am torn by the feeling that everyone deserves anther chance and that most people do learn something from their mistakes. And I the feeling that she has not done anything to change her outlook, and her feelings except run out of OM.

I would talk with her at length, and perhaps entertain delaying the D if YOU are undecided. But, really your desire for the marriage is all that counts at this point. Literally nothing else does. I don't think your children will be better off if you postpone the divorce only to have to go through this a year or two or three or... later.

So, my vote is a definite MAYBE. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But, why don't you call Steve? He seemed to call the shots pretty well didn't he?

God Bless,

JL

Hi Starman. Well, I don't know how sincere your wife is, but I will say I pretty much did the same thing. I was adament that our marriage was over, up until the last few weeks before our divorce was to be final. I didn't really offer tons of remourse at first either, but once hubby told me he would try again I told him I'd do whatever it took to get our life back...I meant it and I followed with appropriate actions. I handed over all passwords and agreed to certain conditions.

If your wife is genuinly sincere, she will gladly agree to appropriate conditions. If she still hesitates...she's still looking for that third option that doesn't exist.

A quick edit...when I say I did the same thing, I mean not wanting the divorce as it neared the end. I didn't have 5 A's. That may add further complication to your situation.

<small>[ October 03, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: hope4future ]</small>

Starman:

I don't have much of anything 2 add 2 what you've already heard here, but I wanted 2 "revive" myself for a moment and tell you that it's good 2 hear from you after all these months. I'm glad you're in a better place, and that you're still being careful about the decisions ahead of you.

All my best,
-2long

Starman, I do have a suggestion for you. I can't say whether you should give W another chance or not. That's something you decide based on your feelings. But!
Do this please. If you decide to give her another chance, ask your Atty. to put things on hold and keep it open so you do not have to start all over again with money! Canceling outright, then things don't work out and you have to pay all over again! I know a couple that happened to and it's quite expensive here.
The Atty would be the first one I'd talk to if you go with trying to recover. Secure that amount you've already paid as I know there is someway they can put hold on. And just reopen if you have to go through with it later.
LouLou

<small>[ October 05, 2003, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Bumped up for Stunned_dad_fast recovering

This is (partly) why we reached what you called an "instant doubt" judgement. It's not that we doubt rape we doubt HER as a person.

Pep

<small>[ October 05, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Rely on the facts before you, NOT on wishful thinking from your part to make a wise decision.

Starman. You don't have to make an agreement and have her move in again, just start dating her again. I would give it a chance by dating your WS again just like you did when you first met. See what happens.

Starman-

First off, I would like to say that it is good to hear from you again!

I think you have been getting great advice here. IF your W is willing to agree to certain conditions and IF she truely seems remourseful then stall your Dv. In my state we can stall a Dv for 2 years from the date the Dv was first petitioned. Also, something Harley suggested to me that I ignored was to date my FWW before letting her move back home. I chose to ignore that advice and I think it is hurting our recovery.

The is interesting. Well I'm no expert and I'm not living in your shoes but since you asked.

Put the divorce on hold but keep the terms in place. Don't tell your wife of any date you think as the final divorce date. Just put things on hold that way if you find yourself having had enough all you have to do is record the documents.

Regarding your WW if your willing work on your marriage but with caution. She keeps her place and lives alone. But set some real ground rules eg no boyfriends etc.

good luck, On the flip side there is no reason you can't file and complete the divorce if you need to and if there is something left in our relationship it can still be recovered. Divorced people do get remarried.

Hello to you sttsi and thanks to everyone for the help. I have had my wife here at the house for the last week because I was very concerned for her being at that apartment by herself. She has talked to a girlfriend of hers and she is going to move into the apartment with my W for about a month. Then they are going to move somewhere else.

I agree with you sttsi about the dating first. Just having her in the house this last week was very stressful for me and I didn't like it much. I talked with Steve H. about it and he said that if I wanted to work on this with her that she should be at the house. But I'm no where near ready for that to happen yet. It hasn't been terrible but I think it's because I haven't decided whether I even want to do this or not yet that has made it so uncomfortable.

I just found out from my lawyer that our D hearing isn't going to be until January. So I do have some time to see how things go before I have to make any decision like that. I can say that right now I just can't see me changing my mind about this. She would have to change sooooo much and I don't think she has it in her. Even if she did I think it's too late for us. I have lost so much of the love and all the respect I ever had for her. As time has gone by I have realized that I was ignoring so much that was wrong with this woman. She is not the person I thought she was and not anyone I would want to spend my life with at this point. I am willing to watch her behavior over the next few months though and see what happens. Who knows?

If she is willing to do anything to come back have her sign a big chunk of marital assets over to you and tell her she is out forever if she ever strays again.

FAM_MAN

starman- Having the WS come back into your life open that can of worms all over again, the can you spent months putting behind you. It feels like a scab has been ripped off and that gaping sore is open again.

Has your W changed? Does she understand what she has done and how hurtful it has been to you? Only time will tell. Her actions will show you the truth. If you are willing to give your M another try then some ground rules need to be set up in order to ensure that she is serious and to start to affair proof your M; oh, and also to protect you.

I respectfully disagree with Steve Harley and would go with what Bill Harley told me. Have W live alone someplace where she is safe and then the two of you start dating. You said your LB is so low that you don't love her anymore, I was in the same boat. I know that if you were to start dating her, she could put those love units back into your LB and try to get that balance into the positive category. As far as trust? I wish I had an answer to that. Bill Harley says it will take 2 years for trust and forgiveness to come back.

Your W has done some really hurtful things to you and your kids. Does she deserve another chance? Only you know that. Have you ever tried putting the MB concepts into your recovery and M before? If not, then why not one last attempt with MB in your M.

Direct her to the MB site so she can read the concepts, send her some of the questionaires. See if she agrees with the ideas.

Thanks again for all the awesome advice. I told my W that there were a couple of things from the start that she would have to do. When she first approached me I knew that she was seeing someone at the time. I told her that she would of course have to break that off. She said she did and I at least know that she hasn't been spending any time with him, but she's probably still talking with him, I don't know.

My wife has been seeing a counselor since the rape occurred and has been talking with her about our relationship and her desire to save it. She has gotten into some of the issues from her childhood that she thinks are part of the cause for the decisions she has made and has been talking with me about those.

I told her that I needed her to talk with Steve H. for me because I trusted his advice and knew working with him would be the best chance we had to put this back together. She balked at first, she was afraid he would be too biased towards me. I told her it didn't work that way, he was there to help us both and she agreed. She talked with him and told me that she was skeptical at first but was admittedly impressed afterward. I talked with Steve later that day and he said that she seemed open to what he had to say. He wanted her to fill out the EN questionairre and fax it to him which she has done.

I asked her to do these things while making it very clear that I wasn't even willing to try this at this point but that maybe her doing these things would help me get there. Steve wants to talk with her once more first and then wants to talk with us together after that.

So here I am slowly walking into this and not knowing if I want to or not. I read through sttsi General Question thread earlier and feel I could have wrote it myself. All the same doubts and fears are there. Even the current feelings I have for my W are the same. I have obviously married someone who has a lot of personal issues to resolve and I can't help but wondering if there isn't someone out there who would be so much easier to have a relationship with. It's selfish I know, but this is my chance to get out of this and be more careful who I choose the next time. Is this the wrong way to be thinking about this?