I have been a member of MB for a little while and I find the writings and suggestions from others to be very helpful. Not to be making excuses, but I have not utilized this help nearly as much as I want to/should. Read the sig line to get some background info, if you want.

I made a mistake, a HUGE mistake. One that I will never be able to take back. I look back at what I did to my M and my W and daughter, and it makes me so mad and sick. I have a hrd time believing that I actually did those horrible things and said those rotten things. Sometimes I get so sad that my W is not happy that I wish myelf dead, so that she can find better, someone that will make her happy. I never would do anything like hurt myself because, if there is some small amount of love in her for me, then it would hurt her for me to be gone. I would not want to hurt her by doing that, plus I would not want to hurt our daughter or unborn son. The truth is sometimes I don't know how I should be.

*I am extremely remorseful for what I did, and that makes me sad and angry with myself.

*I want to be strong and positive about my future with my W, so then I try to be positive.

Anyways, the list goes on.

Could anyone tell me, should I allow my feelings of shame and embarassment and disgust for myself show on the surface? Or should I try to stay positive and strong and be happy with my W, and deal with my problems on the inside or through various resources?

My W always tells me that I have to "fix this marriage". I realize that I am the one that messed up, and I do try, but not in the right ways (I guess). Could someone please tell me what I am not doing, or what would be better to help my W through this (the mess I created)?

Also, there are alot of things that I want to do for my W, but I am afraid to. I am afraid that they may have some sort of parallel to something to do with the OW and that it will stir up the rage inside my W. I am scared to do anything that will upset her or hurt her anymore than I already have.

You see <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> , I was so stupid, but the truth is that she and our child(ren) mean everything to me. I would do anything to try to rebuild things with my W, knowing that she is happy with me. She always tells me that she has never really been happy with me and that she will never be happy with me.

I have been searching for the sources of my inadequecies as a H and man. I have learned a lot about myself, not from the A, but from the inner analysis. I know that I can be a great H and father, I just need a chance to show that to my W.

Anybody is more than welcome to contribute to my thread.
"forevertogether"- I have read some of your comments and respect your opinions and advice and most of all your help. I would like to also her from your H to find out what he has done to help you.

<small>[ October 03, 2003, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: wantmypookey ]</small>

Glad to see you back. I've followed your story from the beginning...there for awhile it looked like yours was one of the stories here with a happy ending.

I felt really bad to see your wife pop back in here full of pain and in her 3rd trimester of pregnancy.

One thing I'd like to say right off the bat...you do not have the right to just curl up and feel sorry for yourself when she is in pain...my H didn't do that to me...he knew he caused this pain and no matter what he was feeling he never turned it back on me!!!

Now...lecture over...I'm guessing that you read your wife's thread about wanting to be best friends again...it sounds like you read my advice and others to her...she also has a thread on the recovery board.

I would suggest you read all the threads that we recommended your wife read, she spent the time to read them all, please show her that you are willing to put in the same level of effort...that is very important to us BS's.

The formula to recovery is simple...the ingredients are all in those posts and on this board...the hard part is putting plan in place and doing the hard work to stick with it!

The rewards, though are tremendous.

Please do a couple of things for your wife in the very near future:

*Tell her everything you haven't told her..not matter the risk to you.
*When you're done take a polygraph to prove that you've told the truth.
*Let her ask you anything she wants...answer her with the truth in a calm manner.
*Handle lovingly and calmly any reaction she has to what you tell her...even if she tells you to leave or she leaves...believe me...I freaked out several times when my H came clean...but I handled it with his help. His biggest fear is that I couldn't take the whole truth, my biggest fear was that he'd never trust me enough to tell me the whole truth. He has now and taken a polygraph to prove it.
*Tell her you love her and will be the strong one for awhile..she is pregnant and exhausted..emotionally and physically...take over as the strong one
*Read all the post recommended in your wife's thread
*Find a way to pay for IC and MC...no matter what you have to do...you have issues, she has issues...you need help to deal with them. If your wife, daughter and unborn child are the most important things in your life...YOU WILL FIND A WAY TO PROVIDE THIS COUNSELING...NO EXCUSES...JUST DO IT!!!!

***Last but not least please reply to the things your wife put in her post...we'd be really interested in hearing your side.

I will ask my H to look at your post and reply. Let us know if you'd like to email or instant message him privately.

Good Luck!!!

forever- I would like to hear from your H. Like the post says, I need all the help I can get. I have read through my W's post. I understand what she is talking about, but I guess I don't ask the right questions. Sometimes I think that I am not aware of what is going on in her mind. I see the result of her emotions. I realize that our communication skills have not been the best in the past. I do try to be the strong one. It seems that, what I would consider to be minor issues, greatly upset her and make her really mad at me. i am ready willing and able to do anything that I can. I think that there is a lot of frustration and anger built up inside her, and she expresses these. I think that she does not think that I understand her point of view or what she is tell.

Gotta go quick, will continue later

WMP,

Good to hear from you and I think we can help.

Putting hormornal issues aside, the one thing a BS needs during recovery is reassuarance. Over and over util the BS says enough. Is that too much to ask?

If it is you may not be ready for recovery. See you are at a point where you know you want your W and child but are you willing to work on the recovery of it?

It is no longer what you want but what they need. Until my H realized that, recovery was just a dream. It took me a while to understand that point but it makes more sense to me when I view it that way.

You see once a BS tends to leave some scars. Not impossible to recover but the scars will be there. How big they are, are up to you.

Like the way vitamin E can reduce the traces of a scar. Reassurance, caring, comfort and eventually love are like the healing ointments that reduce the traces of the scar. Like the way you have to find the right ointment, apply it on a regular basis, that is how you need to work on your R.

R U up to it? It is not as hard as you think.

take care,
L.

Wantmypookey. My point of view here! As a BW I would want to see the remorse, regret and hear it plainly spoken. However, it would be for my healing, not for my H to seek me taking care of him or having sympathy for him!
There is a big difference between showing how badly you feel, voicing it and making amends anyway you can. ASK her what she wants from you and listen. Believe her!
That said, don't expect she should pamper you, or feel sorry for you! She's the one suffering the most horrible pain a wife can feel.
Seek your consolation from God and forgiveness from him and her! But don't do it in a self serving way.
I'd want my H to let it out because it would give me more assurance of his remorse. Not hiding it inside and trying to pretend he feels nothing because then we feel H's think it's no big deal!
Each person has his/her own way, opinion, and view point. ASK your wife and give her what she needs.
BTW, Congratulations on the forthcoming new member of the family. What a blessed man you are to be given this chance.
And consider dealing with your depression or feelings with a counselor also. Just don't keep secrest from Wife. LouLou

dear wantmypookie---im gonna be blunt, so please dont be offended.

you need to grow a set!! what the he// is the matter with you--your wife is giving you the guidlines of what she needs and you are still confused. my god you sound like my husband!

i wrote out a detailed list and am still waiting 2 yrs later.....and guess what....done waiting, he's lost me. is that what you want? i know avoiding is way easier, but the end result will be you losing your family. goo back and read some of my story...you will see the same with my husband. he did get his wish...me healing without him having to do anything....the result...i healed without him and realized i may not really need him.

do what she asks for and stop making excuses.

Hey WMP,

I'm not sure how much help I might be....or how long I can really try to help you and your W. You and your W's situation very closely parallels mine.....and I, too, often find myself where you are....not knowing what to do and what to say. Or how to "fix" things for my H.

I do want to say a couple of things, though, and ask a few questions, if you don't mind....

First, how far along have you gotten in the processing of the A? Do you accept that it was 100% your responsibility for having the A? That you and your W both led your M to be vulnerable to the A, but that in the end, when presented with the decision, that it was a personal flaw in yourself that allowed you to proceed to the A?

Next, have you identified all the contributing factors? What were your contributions to the degradation of the M? What were your W's? What was your internal flaw in making the decision to have the A?

Have you accepted that this happened? That the A has meant the death of your old M, and that there is no way but to build a new M? Are you willing to forgive all her past contributions to the degradation of the M and let her current actions prove her committment and love for you?

OK - I plan to ask your W those same questions. Now for the individual things I want to say to you. I, too, seem to have missed exactly what her outline is for you to redeem yourself. From re-reading her post, this is what I get....

*She needs full and complete honesty - This means HONESTY at all costs. If you are not being honest about the extent of your A, you need to do so now. I realize, especially from what she has posted, that you may very well lose your family if you were to confess that things went further physically than you said. As the WS, that is a consequence we have to face. We were the ones who screwed up. Our S's deserve to make their own decision based on truth . This honesty also needs to go for the entire A - not just the extent of the PA.

My H always said he would leave me (no doubt about it) if I ever cheated on him. Well, I had a full blown EA/PA for 4 months....It ended, and I could have probably not told my H about any of it. He was totally blindsided and had no idea. And odds are, he would never have found out about it. But I had to respect him more than I had in the past. That meant that I had to put my happiness and my life on the line to at least give him respect that I had not shown him by having the A. So I confessed. He has not left me yet. And for him, that's a huge battle. He feels very, very, very much like your W. But I have to give him that option - because it's the only true way I can show him that I am putting him first, and trying to show him the respect he deserves.

Now I also realize you may be in a lose-lose situation. She seems to believe that you are lying about the extent anyway - regardless of if you are telling the truth or not. So if you are telling the truth, and you are telling her the truth, then you have to give it to God, and be secure that you are doing the best you can with honesty - and that is all you can do.

*Flowers - she mentioned in her thread that you didn't even have the money for flowers. That may seem like a little thing she can do without right now, but it obviously is something she mentioned. Now.....go out and pick some darn flowers if you have to <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . Or go to the grocery store and find some really inexpensive flowers (sometimes they will run specials, astrazenica are pretty inexpensive and pretty). Save the $4 you would have spent on sodas, candy, WHATEVER - and get her some flowers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

*Time for her - she referenced you not taking time to fix the M during the summer. Take some time out of your schedule....doesn't matter how long necessarily, but make that time count. Take her out to a romantic dinner. If you can't afford to go out, cook her favorite dinner for her at home. Just do something you know she will like. Write her a note - buy her a card. Whatever will say "I love you" in a language she understands.....

*****Physical or verbal abuse - she referenced to you having had a degree of both in the past ....Be SURE you are not doing this now. If you need help with the definitions, or if you are unsure if you are being verbally or emotionally abusive, seek out help here. People here will be very apt to help you.

OK, now I'm going to go write your W.....I am wishing you both good luck.....you will be in my prayers.

Would I be a clod to ask who the W is on the other thread?

I am very interested in the other side of this story as it is so similar to mine.

Thanks!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wantmypookey:

I made a mistake, a HUGE mistake.

~~~~

OK .... mistake .... learning curve starts from there. Don't keep going backwards .... that does not help.

One that I will never be able to take back.

~~~~

That's why we should be careful with our lives. So, begin.

Sometimes I get so sad that my W is not happy that I wish myelf dead, so that she can find better, someone that will make her happy.

~~~~

Don't be an [censored]. Does this type of thinking help? It this all about you? Stuff these thoughts. These thoughts are dumb. And you are on your way to being a new man, a smarter man, right? Then stuff these thoughts .... because you are finished being an [censored].

The truth is sometimes I don't know how I should be.

~~~~

Here's a list to start your journey:
respectful
kind
honest
thoughtful
resourceful
playful
strong
open
trustworthy
loyal
courageous

....PICK ONE AND BEGIN THERE .... Make a goal of ~being~ that attribute for 24 hours. Try it on like a jacket. Wear that attribute for 24 hours. Then try on another. Then another. see which ones challenge you more than others ... and put that challenging one back on until you feel comfortable "being" that man.

*I am extremely remorseful for what I did, and that makes me sad and angry with myself.

~~~~

Does "sad and angry" have any use in your marriage? Is this part of your goal for recovery? to see how self-absorbed you can become? Can you be remourseful without becoming self-indulgent? try and come up with an idea here.

*I want to be strong and positive about my future with my W, so then I try to be positive.

~~~

I once made a list of what I wanted during my recovery ... and it started "I think I deserve ...... honesty in my marriage" .... I came back to the list an hour later and I changed it to read ... "I will not be in a dishonest marriage" ..... Wanting to be strong sounds like a little boy .... and you are a man .... so be strong. Be it. Live it.

Could anyone tell me, should I allow my feelings of shame and embarassment and disgust for myself show on the surface?

~~~~~

Will shame and embarrasment look good on you? Is disgust a turn on for your wife? Will seeing you like this make her feel loved and protected by her man? You can express disgust at what YOU DID .... and then BE strong .... don't wallow ..... then it's still all about you.

Or should I try to stay positive and strong and be happy with my W, and deal with my problems on the inside or through various resources?

~~~~~

Do you want to be an actor? Does your wife want you to be an actor? If not, then be real, no more hiding.

My W always tells me that I have to "fix this marriage". I realize that I am the one that messed up, and I do try, but not in the right ways (I guess). Could someone please tell me what I am not doing, or what would be better to help my W through this (the mess I created)?

~~~~

Your willingness is , so far, your biggest asset.

Hug her.
You cannot "fix" her hurt.
You have to sit with her when she feels it and "be there" like a strong man who will never let her down again.

What you are NOT doing .... you are still weak. Be strong.

Also, there are alot of things that I want to do for my W, but I am afraid to.

~~~~~

Does your fear help your marriage?

I am afraid that they may have some sort of parallel to something to do with the OW and that it will stir up the rage inside my W.

~~~~

If it does, don't run away. you earned the rage. Sit through it like a man of courage who is willing to be there whenever his wife needs him .... especially when it's ugly.

I am scared to do anything that will upset her or hurt her anymore than I already have.

~~~~

Scared is not useful to you or to her. She's going to be upset. Face it. deal with the consequences. Conflict avoidance is probably one of the major things that got you where you are today .... so no more avoiding conflict. You just do it.

You see <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> , I was so stupid, but the truth is that she and our child(ren) mean everything to me.

~~~~

Now they mean everything .... but not then .... and you have to be smart from here on out .... stupid isn't safe for your wife. No more wallowing. Done.

I would do anything to try to rebuild things with my W, knowing that she is happy with me.

~~~~

You are going to have to tolerate her being very unhappy for at least 6 months and then the happy gradually takes over. Her happiness is not your goal .... your character building is your goal. Will your character building make it safe for her to trust you in the future? Can she be "happy" if she doesn't feel safe or respected or loved and cherished?

Looking for her to be happy right now is dumb ... and you're done with dumb. So change your criteria for your success.

She always tells me that she has never really been happy with me and that she will never be happy with me.

~~~~

Sounds like a very clear message that it's time to be the steward of your family, no longer the little boy. Take care of her .... and see what happends. And do not expect anything in return for a good long time. Suck it up like a man. YOU are someones' DADDY .... so stop being childish.

I have been searching for the sources of my inadequecies as a H and man. I have learned a lot about myself, not from the A, but from the inner analysis. I know that I can be a great H and father, I just need a chance to show that to my W.

~~~~~

Like I said, your willingness is your ticket. Drop the gloom and be the man .... start today.

God bless.

Pep



<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ October 04, 2003, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

wantmy...

Know that it feels at times like walking on egg-shells when both spouses post here...

I think it can be a good thing...a great thing...but also difficult for the reader and the responder...

It is hard when addressing one not to step on the others toes...but it can be a great insightful window....

my posts are offered in kindness and respect to both of you...

First off ...if you are making a cry for assistance...then make it..and stick with it...
If you choose to seek assistance here..which I beleive is as good as any especially if you are not in any counselling...

you write the desire of wanting to utilize the tools here...now is the time to make good on that...

It is a begining and it is an action...

The question is how does your remorsefullness, sadness and anger serve you...

that is what you need to reflect on..and decide what actions you will put behind those feelings...

know that doing nothing...which may appeal to some as relequinshing some of the emotion is of itself a choice...and an action that reflects sometimes negatively...

shame, anger, remorse can be very energizing motivators to assist us in changing...
or they can be motivators that stagnate us...

You should know that it is usually not through huge demonstrative gestures that show we have changed..but by little consistant changes that build upon eachother...that show our selves to be changing...

The problem is that small changes don't feel as valued as great ones...and can be missed by our spouses and go un-noticed..so the one making the changes feels neglected and defeated....
.doesn't matter the small changes are the foundations of the big picture....they are for you as much as our family...

If you wait for a big moment or activity to prove you are different it will never come...and each day is wasted just wating for a moment of proof...

I know that I can be a great H and father, I just need a chance to show that to my W.

those chances come every day and every hour in which you make a choice to interact/react/risk with your family to step up to the plate and think
what would a loving man do right now.?..
what would a loving father do right now...?

for there are always choices...give in to your fatigue and negative emotions...
or do something different and positive...

I am scared to do anything that will upset her or hurt her anymore than I already have.

you will upset and hurt your wife....
so what!!!????
that's marriage
that's life...
attempting to find a route that avoids this creates a false environment and expectations that are doomed to fail...

have been searching for the sources of my inadequecies as a H and man. I have learned a lot about myself, not from the A, but from the inner analysis

time to quit thinking, self analyzing and move...
one of your wifes biggest fears is that you were attentive and talkative and interested in your OW...I don't know whether you were or weren't..but she is telling you what she needs...and you can decide to prove her right her wrong....

She always tells me that she has never really been happy with me and that she will never be happy with me.

You can not be totally responsible for someone elses happiness...that will never work...
no one can be...

and a damaging claim to a relationshi...
BUT in her words lies your choice...
except what she says as gospel..or prove her wrong....

while direct actions or lack of actions have an impact on her happiness...no one has enough power over anyone do this totally for them...

I hope you are sincere in your outcry...
I hope you don't retreat from here...

regardless of school and work and all the other stuff that is life...if this means enough to you..you will make the time...

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marriedandlonely:

<strong>Would I be a clod to ask who the W is on the other thread?

Thanks!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jazzeygirl

Thank you all for your posts and help.

I have been doing as much of you have suggested: to be a man and stand up to the rage, etc. It is not very enjoyable, seeing my wife like that. But I know that I put her through much worse.

I understand that most of you tell me to just stand up and be a man. I am not trying to sound like I am whining, but almost everything I say and do usually turns out wrong.

Probably not the best time to post, my mind is fried. I've been up all night and my brain is dead.

BTW-I would/will do everything I can to save this M. I know that my recovery and self improvement are important and so I keep doing.

I will write more later, once I am rested.

?????????

DON'T HIDE YOUR FEELINGS FROM YOUR WIFE. Your failure to share your feelings led to the A. You feel sorrow and remorse? Then you should show it your wife.

It is great that you feel contrite.

However, the A didn't occur in a vacuum. You and your W are going to have to work on the problems together.

You need MC. MC is covered by most health insurance policies. If you don't have the funds for MC, Catholic Charities runs a fantastic marriage counseling program where payments are based upon ability to pay.

Just to add my .02 worth.

What i would want from my FWH, what he could do to "fix" the M?

To tell me honestly why it happened and tell me details (as much as I want, but not when I don't ask).

To Reassure me over and over and over and over and over again that he's not going to leave or seek out another partner.

To woo me back. To fill my love back with so many love units...to court me again, and never stop.

AND MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL:

To be honest about how he would like to be treated by me. If he doesn't like the angry outbusrsts...tell me how it makes him feel when I do that. To stand up to me and tell me what he likes and doesn't like, instead of runnin gto someone else to make him feel better.

Wantmypookie,

I will start with saying I have not read the reat of the comments so if someone has already said something simmilar I'm sorry. You sound alot like my husband. Very soory and willing to do anything to make it up to me. But the thing is that he had had the A long befor he told me. I feel alot like he told me to get it off of his chest. I now have something to deal with that I didn't do anything to get. It took me along time to realise that I didn't do anything. Now you say that you are angry with yourself. You also questioned whether or not you sould show that. I say yes, because my husband doesn't. He said that he hurts as much as I do, but he now acts like nothing happened and I am still very much hurting. When we do talk about it, which is almost never he said that he still hurts, but he has to get over it to get on with our lives together. I feel like he did this and he should never get over it and the fact that he can hurts me all over again. So bottom line, I think that you should let her know that it still is hurting you and that your not all better. I feel like he did it I didn't and he doesn't have the right to feel better untill I do.

Thank you all for your comments and help. I just reread all the replies again and I nust say that based on suggestions, there is a split population out there regarding the question of showing my sorrow and remorse.

Here's what I have adapted from the help and soe insight of my own:

Some have said to openly express my feelings, hurt sadness, etc. I agree, I don't want to be all shut down with my W. The A weighs heavily on my mind and I don't want to focus on only that with my W, but we do talk about it each day (roughly). I have been opening up to my W as much as I know how, when possible. Example: I was at work today and I was having a hard time and I was talking with her and starting crying and she asked what was wrong, but couldn't talk about it while I was at my job. I told her that I would tell her later, which I kind of did.

I also realize that when I am around my wife, that though I may be feeling depressed or sad; she doesn't want to see it or hear it. I don't blame her, who would want to be around a sulking, feeling-sorry for myself.

I continually think about what I have done to my family and I keep hoping that we can remain a family. I mentally imagine what it was like for her back then, and it tears me up. I know that for her to actually go through it must have been 100 times worse than what I imagine. I get very emotional over little things.

I will continue later.

WantmyPookey

"stillheremakingit"-
How do you deal with the A, especially considering the fact that you seem optimistic about recovery (and it just ended a couple of months ago)????????

My A had ended in Dec 02 and I had sent N/C letter nin Jan.

I know my situation is slightly different (since OW tried to kill me w/ a car and we had court dealings), but my W is so haunted by the past, she brings up stuff from years ago, that I guess she has not fully had closure on.

Anyways, how do YOU do it, I hope it may help my W.

BTW all, I have been doing research into MC and found out that my insurance DOES cover it (awesome). I have been on the phone, making appts and stuff.

More to come later

bumped for more comments and suggestions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi, were you able to go in and read all the posts we recommended to your wife? What was your take after reading them...what type of recovery plan do you think you need to put in place?

Do you agree to all the MB principles? Are you willing to follow them, without exception? Are you willing to open up and tell your wife the whole truth? Are you willing to take a polygraph? Are you willing to try to break free of your depression?

That's great news about counseling. You really need to get both of you into IC and the two of you into MC. MC might be better after a few sessions with an IC. Shopping for an IC is very important, somewhere on this site there is a list of questions for a therapist. You want the type that will proactively counsel you and help you figure out what makes you tick...not the kind who just sits back and listens.

You really need to show your wife that you are going to be proactive in the recovery and consistent. If your wife, daughter and unborn baby are the most important things in your life..you'll let nothing get in the way of your recovery.

Remember, recovery is about more then just how to not have an A again, it's about figuring out why you had them, why you react to life the way you do...what makes you tick...how to handle life better. You also have to help your wife heal. You need to figure out what you need, listen to what she needs and put a plan in place to meet those needs.

All the ingredients are on this site or in the book His Needs/Her Needs.

You just have to DO IT!

Best Wishes!

Yes, I am willing to open up and tell her everything that I possibly can. I want to do everything I can to help her heal. I need to do some research on the exactness of the plans that I should/could follow. As for the C, my W and I are planning on going to IC for several visits and then go from there. I have talked to the C a couple of times and he seems very nice, I will be paying very close attention to his approach. I also found out that my W's C is very directive but in a good way. She is the type that I think will be very proactive and wants to try to help.

I am eager to go to C, both of us have separate appointments tomorrow.

I will do my research regarding the plans and update all tomorrow on how the appointments go.

I have been more comfortable being myself, and laughing with my family. I have noticed a difference in my W, too. She seems to be more accepting of me, and I think that deep down I am not such a bad person.

Time to play with the little one inside.

Gotta go.