I normally post in the Recovery board, but lately I have realized that I am certainly not recovering. I would like to hear what those over in this forum have to say….

I have been “here” before – in the land of despair, hopelessness, and pain. It is no different this time. I wonder if it will EVER be different.

18 months post D-Day, my WH told me that he still does not love me. I was devastated, but picked myself up and decided that it was time to move on with my life. It has been a wild rollercoaster, and I have thrown up so many times that I just need to get off, you know.

This is not a marriage. I have done everything I know possible to make it work – I have been going to IC for over a year, been on anti-dep meds, worked on myself, changed my attitudes and behaviors, changed my looks. I thought things were getting better, but I was mistaken. Apparently, WH was just settling into being comfortable with the way things “are”.

I am so lonely. WH has not slept a single night in the same bedroom with me in almost 2 years by now. He refuses to tell me he loves me – says he doesn’t want to give me the wrong impression. However, he has no problem with me doing his laundry, cooking his meals, and paying his bills. Is this marriage?

I decided a few weeks ago that it was time for a separation. WH told me over the weekend that he thinks that is the right thing – that he does not see our relationship going anywhere in the future. However, when I asked him to move out by the end of the month, he refused. He is adamant that he will not leave. He actually told me that he has put so much work into the yard that he should not have to leave. He told me that he never had a yard like this growing up and that I should understand that he is not going to give that up. He told me that I can find another house where I can be happy, but that he cannot get another yard like the one we have. It has gotten very ugly. Again, I am devastated that he would fight so hard for the yard, and never give a thought to fighting for me.

This morning, WH told me that he does not want to separate. His reason – that he wants to see our kids every day. OK – I understand that – I feel the same way. But, when I tried to talk about the fact that we are doing a disservice to the boys by providing such a shabby example of a loving marriage, he scoffed. He said that there could be a lot worse……. True. But, what kind of mother am I going to be if I continue to deteriorate inside over the years?

I brought up the fact that it is just not normal that he sleeps in the room with the kids instead of with me. His answer….. well, he didn’t really know what the future would hold. That he thinks eventually the boys will outgrown him and he will probably have to start sleeping with me again – that hit me like another knife in the heart.

The one thing that sticks out to me in all this is that WH has never mentioned that he has feelings for me – that he wants me in his life. He finds all sorts of reasons that he doesn’t want to separate or divorce, but none of them have anything to do with me. I am only 34 years old…… I want love in my life…… I want happiness. Why is this all I get?
I have come to terms with the fact that we need to separate – for my sake. But, I it still hurts. And, now I have to deal with the fact that he refuses to leave our home. What are my choices now? Force him out through legal channels, or move out peacefully myself. Which would be less traumatic for the kids?

Any advice? I am withering away quickly inside……

Another question........ WH and I are supposed to go to a family event with his mother, sister, etc. this weekend. His mother has asked me to take some photos for he for Christmas at the event since she will have all her grandchildren there. (I have a small photography business as a hobby.)

I don't feel like I can go to the party under these circumstances and play "happy family". His mother knows nothing about our marital struggles and will get her feelings very hurt if we do not show up.....(WH says he is not going to to and take our kids.)

My mother-in-law and I are very close. I want to call and tell her what is going on so she will understand why I am not coming. Is that OK?

Finally, I hesitate to say this….. but I feel like just taking the kids and moving is a cop out….. I don’t deserve to have to lose my home and uproot my kids. But, I am so tired and worn out…. The “cop out” seems the easiest way to go to me right now. I don’t have the energy for a huge LB that comes with a legal battle. Is that weak of me?

I can be happy somewhere else, I have no doubt about that. In fact, a chance to start over clean sounds even appealing to me on some levels…… my kids – that is another matter. I non-chalantly asked my 7 year old thins morning if he would ever like to move to a better house and he immediately got upset, saying that he did not want to move away from his friends. So, I feel like if I don’t fight to keep them in their home, that I am giving up on them. Does that make sense?

WTW:

Is it going to be financially possible for you to keep your house by yourself? Have you thought of that yet? It might be that moving to a different house is going to come about no matter what. I know I couldn't have kept our house if we were to split.

If you do talk to your MIL, please do so gently. This is her baby she is hearing bad stuff about.

Is your H still having his A? Sorry, I don't know that detail about your sitch.

DB.

Actually, I am the primary money-maker in our house, so I am probably in a better position to keep the house financially than WH is.

The part that really gets me is that, according to my attorney (I had a consultation several months ago), there is a chance that I may have to pay WH spousal support since I make more money than he does and I am more marketable since I have more eduction. (I went to night school and got my MBA). Then, the clincher, since WH is a teacher (a choice we made together to allow the kids more time at home) he has a good arguement for joint custody because he spends more time with them than usual.

Finally, WH's A has been over for about a year. I have been in IC for over a year, but WH refuses to go. He admits that he has done nothing toward marital recovery, but is not motivated to start. He claims he just "does not know what he wants."

I definitely am not the one for advice in this area as I never went through legal stuff with my FWH.

I do know that "they" advocate telling everyone to bring the A to the light of day but that doesn't really apply to you either.

If you don't feel comfortable going to the family gathering maybe you should just tell your MIL that you are going through tough marital times but not really give any further details about the A since as you said "it doesn't have anything to do with OW anymore".

This might give your H a taste of the Plan B or separated life, too.

Good luck to you,
DB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by willingtowait:
He admits that he has done nothing toward marital recovery, but is not motivated to start. He claims he just "does not know what he wants."

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's not motivated because he's perfectly comfortable with the status quo. He knows what he wants ... he's choosing it ... but he'll never admit to this ... fact: he is where he is because that's his cloice.

Now for you ... what is your cloice? There is no "perfect" choice ... but you will choose anyway. There will be something sacrificed either way ....

I suggest you get personal counseling .... have you considered some MB counseling sessions?

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks, Pepperband.

I have a wonderful, marriage recovery counselor than I have been seeing on an individual basis for over a year now. I have an appt with him later this week...... that just seems so far away right now, though.

My decision to pursue separation has not come lightly. It is the result of many hours of discussion with my IC. I just wish WH would agree to the logistics..... I asked him to move out at the end of October..... he is refusing. Why does he keep trying to suck the last bit of life out of me? Why must I be the one to lose everything? HE had the A! HE refuses to work on recovering our marriage!!!!! IT IS JUST NOT FAIR!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by willingtowait:
IT IS JUST NOT FAIR!!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's true. Will it get "more fair" if you wait and wait and wait?

Pep

In the meantime,

QUIT BEING HIS MAID, COOK, ETC.

Give him a MAJOR wake up call.

I know it's hard but he doesn't care about he's treating you. DO NOT DO HIS WASH or clean up after him -- he's a big boy who has said he doesn't want to be M so let him see what that is like. You don't have to make it an issue in front of the kids, just don't do it. If he asks you to, say you do not have the time. After all, you said he's the teacher so he could have more time, well, he probably DOES have more time than you.

AND TO TELL YOU TO MOVE IS JUST PLAIN SELFISH! The KIDS would be happier to stay in their home -- the H is putting his needs above theirs -- SELFISH!

I know this sounds harsh and I'm not telling you to separate or divorce but you are not happy. H has made it clear that he likes it the way it is.

Rock HIS boat -- he's been rocking yours....

I agree with SoDisappointed. You don't want to move for very good reasons, he refuses to move just because he can. Well, fine, so be it, but that doesn't mean you have to allow him to walk on you anymore.

He wants life on his own? He doesn't want to make decisions with regard to your marriage? He wants to enjoy the glory of being married to a woman who loves him, but in turn never repay the intimacy? Hah! Not in this lifetime.

Yes, ROCK HIS BOAT. Quit doing things for him. Talk to him in a social manner when necessary. Be civil around your boys. Let him make his own meals, clean his own dishes, do his own laundry, etc. You shouldn't be doing any of this for him. If he asks about it, then let him know that you refuse to live like you are not husband and wife and continue to act to be on your part. If he wants to take the time to mull over his life and maybe start counseling and see what lies in store for the future, you are happy to work with him, but as long as he wants to treat you and your relationship like it's just there, then you will do the same from now on.

I'm sorry you are going through this. He's just being a very selfish individual. Take back the control, you will feel a lot better. All my best.

Willing,

I read this thread and had a few thoughts for you to consider.

First as a guy, I often think that the courts often just grant custody to women because they are women, not because it is best for the children. Men are generally screwed no matter what the W did including having an affair. I tell you this because you need to know my bias' when considering what I have to say.

1. I think you need to talk to your attorney again, or get another one.

2. I think you have "earned" your divorce, but your H has not.

3. I think you may have to stop and really think, "is paying spousal support a real show stopper with regard to divorce?" Men do this all of the time. If as you say you have done everything and he just doesn't want to play, then is spousal support going to keep you from happiness? (see your lawyer and discuss this carefully) There is no free lunch with divorce as I am sure you know, so assess what your freedom and happiness is worth here.

4. The likelihood of you getting sole custody in many states is very small, so you will share parenting with your H. You must face that.

5. After talking to your lawyer, consider moving out with or without the kids. This can only be done AFTER legal separation papers are filed and it should be done in such a way as to make your claims for custody as strong as if you stayed. I offer this idea to you, because sometimes it takes drastic changes to get someone off of the fence. I know this is small comfort to you, but most men in your situation find themselves out of the house without their children, and sometimes it leads to changes in the W. In this case the roles are reversed. I realize it is NOT a pleasant alternative but one you should consider.

Finally, you might want to sit down with a lawyer, tax person or financial person and really figure some things out. For example you might be willing to trade the equity in your house to H for him NOT touching your retirement plan and no spousal support. If he wants the house so much, you are in a strong bargining position, because otherwise the divorce will require the house to be liquidated. Do the numbers here, and see if there is a situation that protects you, but is fair.

What I am really suggesting is the following. Make a decision about the survivability of your marriage, frankly it sounds as if it is done unless H gets off of his A$$. Make sure you can protect your rights to custody, if you leave the house, with or without the kids. See if your state routinely grants 50/50 custody, if so, then leaving might make the most sense.

My bet is that your H won't really enjoy taking care of a 2 year old, and the 5 year old, so you surely get plenty of time with them.

I realize you feel as a woman, that somehow men don't get as bothered about losing daily access to their children, but it is not true, so there won't be winners here, even if your H thinks so.

I wish I could offer you some really good advice to get him off of deadcenter, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but I cannot. I think you are going to be forced to make some hard decisions and I think his actions suggest that he wants you to be the "bad" guy. Frankly, I would sit your MIL down, and explain to here the marriage situation and I would do it soon. I would explain it to any other inlaws/outlaws that you feel appropriate, but only after you have your plan ready to go.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

JL -
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I really appreciate the practical advice. I have considered the possibility of tradinging 401K for home equity, etc. But, I have also tended to focus on the negative aspects of separation instead of looking at it as the price of future happiness. I have been cruching numbers today, and, frankly, it does not seem possible that WH can retain the house and all the expenses that go with it on his own. But, that is not my problem, right? If he is so adamant that he wants it, and I can work out a fair deal, then he will have to deal with the ramifications of his choices on his own.

I have an appt with my IC later this week. I am hesitant to make an appt with the attorney - it just doesn't feel right. I suspect that I am just afraid of the reality that comes with moving toward divorce. What I really want is to separate for awhile and have WH realize what he is doing, agree to get help, and work toward marital recovery. Getting an attorney involved seems counter-productive to that goal.

But, on the other hand, if WH is not going to participate in this marriage, then I need to wake up, accept it, and start protecting myself and my children from future fallout.

UUUGGGHHHH!!!!!

Actually, getting an attorney involved is the best way to protect your interests and that of your children. You can talk to an attorney, get the layout of your options, and then go forward with a legal separation. This will ensure your rights are protected by the law with regards to your children and all. Talking to an attorney does not mean you have to move toward a divorce at this point. Talking to an attorney only says you are making sure to do things right so you don't get screwed. Like I said, you can then move to a legal separation and worry about divorce at a much later date if it's needed.

I wish you all the best, and hope that you can find some way to wake your WH up.

Gosh..... just when I start feeling like I am getting it together - making plans for myself - feeling better about moving ahead with changes in my life.....

This morning, my husband and I were discussing our plans for this evening. I asked if he would mind if we took 30 minutes or so to try and discuss some of the things that we need to do before next month (separation). He said sure and we went on with the usual morning routine.

However, when he was leaving, he did not tell me good-bye. I made some kind of a joke about it and he turned an snapped at me - something like "what do you expect after something like that?" I was caught off guard and merely replied "What? I thought this was what you wanted!"

Second thoughts? I am not really having any right now. I am just starting to get excited about being on my own and finally being in control of my own life after 2 years of chaos. But, right on cue, my husband throws the guilt card at me. Why should I be the one feeling guilty? I have tried for a year and a half to get this marriage on the road to recovery!!!!

He appears to believe that I am the one making the choices here - he keeps referring to the fact that I am trying to control him. That is so far from true. I am merely trying to do something within the boundaries that he has set with his own choices (or lack of) that will allow me some peace in my life.

Am I wrong to keep pushing for separation? I would put it off in a second if he would agree to go to counseling and to the dr. regarding anti-deps. But, if he will not do those things, I don't see the point in staying. Nothing will change, will it?

Thank goodness I have an apt with my counselor tomorrow....!!!!

What would you ladies and gentlemen reccomend to a friend in my situation?

Thanks, WTW

Last evening, WH told me that he did not want to “talk about things” – that he trusted me not to divide things up unfairly and would sign whatever I wanted him to. WHAT???? The condensed version of the evening is basically that his emotions were all over the place – from being sad one minute to very defensive another, and angry another. He would never tell me what he “wanted” – he just told me that if separation is what I wanted that was fine. But he also said that he is not doing it “for show…..” and that if we separate we will divorce. I told him that is not what I want, and that I still think we can work things out if he will just try, but he didn’t have anything to say to that.

I asked him again to go to counseling, and he again said no. He said he does not need it.

The most striking part of it for me was when he was standing in the living room telling me that he couldn’t believe that I would think he is depressed. He went on to tell me that he is the happiest person in the world, etc……. all the while, he had tears welling up in his eyes.

I had been planning to cook dinner for all of us last night since it was one of the few this week that we were all home. But, after all this, my husband said that he really just did not want to be around me. He took the kids and went out to eat. He was still aloof when they got home.

This morning, he came into my bed and acted like he wanted to have sex. I got up.

What in the world is going on here?