I just spoke w/xH. We still keep in touch. We started dating at 15 and married at 20. We were married for 7 years before we had our 1st child. She was born w/a rare disease and passed away just shy of her 3 year b-day. We were divorced a year after that. Grieving was EXTREMELY DIFFICULT and quite frankly, that time of my life is blocked pretty much. I can't remember what was said, how it was said or anything. Just know that we both couldn't even speak, let alone to each other and we went our separate ways. Mine was on a path of self destruction. His was to seek another to take care of him and nurture him through this terrible time.

So we had been together 15 years, married 20. I'm not going to be so smug to say we had a perfect marriage, I don't think that exists, really. You always need to work on a marriage. But we had a good marriage and neither of us ever dreamt of having an A and neither of us did.

The single world was a big WAKE UP call to my X and I. We couldn't believe how sex was easily given and taken.

X married within 2 years of divorce. I was happy for him -- he seemed to find happiness and since we, at that time due to the research of the disease was not what it is today, would never be able to have a child together and now he would have the chance to have a child and the family we no longer had.

So X has been married for about 7 years. They have had their child. Wife is a stay-at-home mom, like I had always wanted to be. She does extracurricular stuff and stays active outside the home as well. X does the golf and hunting thing. They occasionally do things together. They have drifted apart. I have been trying to tell him about this site and that maybe what he thinks his wife is thinking and what his wife thinks he is thinking is totally off base and that they need to communicate. He says there is no SF and that she's happy with the way things are. She wants for nothing. So now he has grown out of love w/her but wants to stay M until child leaves home.

I have tried to tell him that the story is always the same and to please not look for SF elsewhere, blah, blah, blah.

Today, he jokingly said it was too late. I said you're not joking. He said he was. I said I know you, you are not. You wouldn't joke about something like that if it wasn't true. He admitted he wasn't. (Imagine my dismay -- he knows I just went through the infidelity trauma and am still trying to get over it!)

He said I didn't understand that this OW didn't want any more -- AGH!!!! I said, no, no, no, you have it all wrong -- you are so into the fog that I can't believe YOU would say such a thing. He said, no, really, she doesn't even call or ask for anything but I have been thinking in the back of my mind that it isn't right and I shouldn't be doing this.

I asked how old she is. He said 24. X is 40. I said, you realize that her views on sex and R's is totally different from the way we grew up right? He said he knew. I said, you realize that most girls don't think the way guys do right? He said he really thinks she doesn't want any more than that. I said, really? I said, I go to this web site every day and I read what all these people are going through all over the world and a LOT of the basis of the stories are the same. I said, she's willing to give it away right now but believe me, in the back of her head she is not going to compartmentalize it for long and start asking for more. She sees you as an older successful man and how much you could give her too -- it's going to happen. And you really don't know her. What if when you decide to break it off, she comes clean w/her feelings and says she wants more and to not break it off OR says she'll tell your W.

Anyway, blah, blah, blah, we've all been there and heard this before....

I'm just so sad. He was so PISSED when he found out my WS had the A so how can he not see the similarity in the situation? This man who I have known since I was 13 and we pretty much have always had the same views and all that, has crossed the line.....

I'm losing faith in marriage.... don't worry, I'll hang on and get over it BUT it saddens me so!

I asked him to please call me back next week so we could talk more about this. I soooo do not want him to ruin his R good or bad.... I said no SF at home is NO EXCUSE to go get it elsewhere. Talk to the W find out what she is really feeling. He said he didn't want to go to a lot of MC appts, etc. (fog talk). I said you don't have to... TALK TO HER!

I have still not regained the passion for my WS so I can see how people want passion back in their lives BUT when you have a commitment and a child/ren WWWHHHYYYYY?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

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Hey So,

I am so so so so so so so sorry that now you are having to watch someone else you care about go through the same homewrecking experience as you are going through. I completely agree with you about him needing to talk to his W about it. In fact, I so wish that I had pushed harder to find out what was wrong with my H in our R.

So often, though, as WSs we take the "easy road." For whatever reason - weakness, selfishness, opportunity - the easy road just lures us in. And we get that momentary need(s) met. Later, when it all comes to light, we look back and see that maybe if we hadn't given up so easily - or taken that "easy" road - things could have worked out for the better. And we wouldn't have scarred our spouses so deeply.

I know what your ExH is about to face. I am facing it now. And I thank God every day that I have a H who has decided he wants to try. I am lucky. There is no doubt. I hope he is just as lucky. Because now that he's crossed the line, he's carrying that elephant. He's just so fogged right now that he doesn't feel it. He will. And it will either eat at him and their M slowly.....or it will come to light, and he will realize that the momentary "high" was not worth the pain he has caused.

Do you plan to do anything with the information? You said you knew his W, right? I feel for you because I wouldn't really know what to do. Especially having been through the situation myself.....

Prayers are with you - and also for your M....

Thanks LIT. I usually don't get on the computer on the weekends but I wanted to see if anyone responded. It's been in the back of my head ALL WEEKEND! It's so sad!

I asked him to call me next week. I hope he does. I'm going to try to get him to meet me face-to-face because I think if he could see my face and the pain it's causing me (his ex-wife) that maybe, just maybe, he'll get an inkling of the pain he is causing his family.

I'm going to mention his son and how does he think his son would feel -- this son he thinks he is trying to protect -- to find out his father took the easy way out instead of being the rock that he wants his son to believe he is.

Not to mention the OW is 24 and even though an adult and responsible for her actions as well, I don't think she realizes the pain she is contributing to just for sex. When I read posts by OW, I know dang well this young woman is not in it just for sex. Ex-H is an old-time southern man (I can no longer say gentleman -- his lost that title w/me now) and I know she'll end up having more feelings than that for him.

Ex-H has a LOT to lose. He has his own business and has done well for himself. I know his W gave up a successful career to raise their son. I do not think she'll take this lying down. She did have a more "experienced" past than my ex-H and I (but I think almost everyone did - HA!) and she could possibly be having an A herself. She had asked just two years ago for my ex and I to annul our M because the church she attended would not let her take communion until we did. I complied. It was HARD because to me, that's acknowledging that we were NEVER married and then what about our precious daughter we had together and lost -- is she supposed to not be acknowledged as well? It was a very hard decision and one that I complied for the sake of their M.

It is a terrible "secret" to carry around and I don't see how anyone can without it eating at you -- you WS's have had to feel this. No wonder my WH became so depressed and ill during that time.

My ex-H said he does not want to find his love for his W again -- is this just the way WS's feel when they are getting their needs met elsewhere? Please tell me it is fog talk because I want them to be a family. Maybe he is on his self destructive path now and having his post traumatic stress disorder 10 years later? I have heard he is drinking now and he wasn't a drinker when we were together 15 years -- just occasionally. It's way more than that! I don't think his W cares. They are both in that state -- I'll keep posting here for ideas because I will not be able to let this go....

SoD,

I really, truly hope that when he speaks to you in person, he will see the hurt which it causes. And, yes, what he is saying is fog talk. It's almost a result of compartmentalization. When he's with her/talking about her/thinking about her, he is not thinking about his real life. He is inside that clear box where you can see the consequences, but they are far away - distant - and you can't feel them.

To me, it sounds like he holds a lot of resentment for his W right now....for whatever reason. You might try exploring that if you get a chance. Try not to make it seem like you are against him....maybe even ask him to actually think of the details of leaving his W. That was one of the things that kept bringing me out of the fog. I couldn't imagine dividing up the memories, and throwing them all away. Odd, because in one way I already had. And in another, my H already had also.....the thoughts of the WS are so very jumbled.

He doesn't really know what he wants. And you are right about OW. Odds are even if it was just for sex in the beginning, she will get somewhat emotionally attached to him. He may even get attached to her and not know it until it's too late. It's just such a dangerous situation. And now you are in the middle of it because of his carelessness.

But I do think that his telling you might have been a subconscious cry for help. In some respects, my A itself was a subconscious cry. Something is clearly wrong in his M. Odds are it has to do with more than just sex. He may just be denying it - or hiding it.

So, after all you have been through - with him, with your D, with having to annul your M for both of them, and now your H. You have persevered through so much. I admire you for your strength. I truly wish one of two things for you: Either your H "sees the light" and really changes for you - or you are able to leave and find the love that you deserve.

Try to help your ex-H, but also remember that very few things will help a WS emerge from their "foggy" world. It's like trying to stop a teen from using drugs. Unless hard core tactics are used, then they usually will just continue in the momentary "high." My guess is that either his W will have to find out, the guilt will have to eat him alive and he will confess, or the A will have to die out on its own. He seems pretty deep right now. But when he is able to look at the future and see that this A is not a future solution, hopefully he might be able to start his journey back home.....

And about carrying the guilt....WSs do feel it - but more in the beginning and the end. After the initial pains, we feel it badly. But you rationalize it with different reasons. And OP usually helps. Then as it begins to resurface each time, you get used to the feeling and then supress it (habituation) - you start to just not think about it any more. Finally, at the end, it begins to just be too much - and there is no amount of rationalizing or supression that will keep it down. And that's when we start to emerge.

It's a horrible thing, but it's a combination of defense mechanisms that the psyche does to prevent the hurt and pain. It stinks everytime I try to explain it because it just reminds me of what scum I used to be. And how hurtful, selfish, and ignorant I was. But that's pretty much how it worked....at least for me.

I hope your x can see the light. But when you talk to him, focus more on him. Since he is in "selfish" mode, those comments are going to hit him more. Like how is he going to feel if he continues and loses his W? How is he going to feel when he learns he might lose his son? How will it feel if OW leaves, and he has to face his problems in the M? Remind him that this is NOT a long term solution - he may feel good now, but what is he going to do about the problem....

Good luck, So. Keep us updated, and I hope you feel better....Enjoying the weather here lately!!!

I was going to call him this morning and say, "Hi! This is your conscience calling!" HA!!

I am going about it in a non-accusatory, non-holier than thou tone because I DO know how he is. He holds everything in and thus, resentment builds. I started trying to get him to talk to his wife a year ago and I guess he didn't listen.

The sad thing is that he says he really doesn't want her any more. I know a LOT of WS's say this so I'm going to act like this isn't true.

I really thought when he married her, he was going into a M too fast after all we had been through. I knew I couldn't have just 2 years after losing our D. There was no way I could have been there emotionally for someone. But, I guess, men have it different. He had women coming onto him all over the place wanting "to take care of him and make it all better." For me, the guys were like, "Oh my God! See ya!!" And, yeah, it was pretty much that obvious -- JERKS! My WS was the first guy who asked questions and seemed to really want to know all about it and even cried w/me -- that's what pulled me in w/him.

Thanks for giving me your views -- I know it's hard to face all of that but it does help me w/my approach. And, yes, I did see it as a "cry for help" because why else would he have first joked about it and then when I called him on it, admit it? He had no reason too.

I'm going to try to get him to meet for lunch Wednesday...

Hey So,

Good luck with your xH. Sounds like you know what to do. And, you are exactly right not to believe what he says about not wanting her. It's easy to say when he still has her!!!

I do think you are right - moving into a relationship so soon after tragedy can be more of a distraction than anything else. But it doesn't make it unsalvageable, and it doesn't mean he cannot be happy in it. One hard thing for me to learn is that I can't depend on someone else to make me happy. I have to depend on myself. Sometimes we lose track of that in M because we feel the other person should be making us happy.

I will still hold to my guns that his issues with his W go deeper than just sex. But he has to admit to those issues....which he probably won't do right now. But I admire you for going to meet with him, and try to help him to stop. That has got to take some strength on your part.

How are you, btw? I read your last post about your H, but didn't really have any advice. Sounds like he's just self centered, and not willing to put much into making it a happy M. I really don't understand people who feel that way. Why does anyone want to live in a miserable M? Why would they not want to actively work on things....the end result will be a huge payoff.....

Oh well, I hope things have at least gotten a little better for you. Good luck Wed!