It's been several weeks since I posted here....
several weeks that have seen me take a major fall in my attempts to recover my marriage. Four weeks ago I was a BS full in Plan A and it was just starting to work. Today I'm a WS that just got caught in an online EA. I still wasn't having my needs addressed and one night I was feeling very lonely and couldn't sleep. I cruised the internet and found someone to chat with. I thought it was safe since she was in Indonesia. What happened over the next several weeks was that I built this fantasy up. We wrote emails every day and chatted in the wee hours in the morning. I thought I felt a connection. She said I was handsome and funny. She said she would like to be with me. We never really talked about sex, only feelings and the 'connection'. I never told her I was married. I just told her enough to keep the praise coming. One of my top EN's is admiration and she was filling it nicely. We steped it up a couple of times and talked on the phone briefly and I showed her me thru the webcam. Nothing ever sexual. Only emotional. I fell for it till last saturday night. At 4:30am my wife came in and caught me chatting with her. She shut down completely and got very angry at me (deserved). She ignored me for the next 3 days and last night told me she was done. Over. Not going to try anymore and wanted me gone. She never cried, never shed a tear. She told me she had put spy software on my computer and read every email and all my chats accessed my voicemail and text messages.

No, I'm not very good at this affair stuff.

I really didn't realize it was an affair till sunday. Talk about the fog. I was deep in it. I wrote a N/C letter and sent it to my wife to approve. She said forget it, she doesn't care. She's seeing a lawyer on friday and wants me out this weekend.

I started N/C on Tuesday, but I doubt it will make a difference to her. She adamant it's over. She says there's too much mistrust on both our parts and that we're just tearing us apart. Still won't MC or IC. I started AntiD's (Lexapro) 3 weeks ago....funny about the same time all this started. My head feels like it's on backwards, but at least I'm now able to function at work a bit better.

Wife's mother called me today and wants a meeting tonight. I called wife and she told me she called her this morning to tell her it was over. She'd never do that unless it really was. Even with the AntiD's I feel about rock bottom, I guess without them I'd be thinking about killing myself. In fact I think the thought crossed my mind once or twice last night as I laid on the couch and cried myself into oblivion.


So I guess thats it for me. I think the Plan works if you stick to it. I just wasn't strong enough. The SAA and HNHN books are awesome, I just wish I could have stayed the course. I'm sorry to all those out there that supported me for failing. TMCM your an awesome guy, thanks for everything. I just I'll be posting over on the Divorcing board now but probably won't be welcome cause I'm now a WS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Your WW shut down on you over an online EA in Indonesia????? Hmmmmm.....that is kinda extreme isnt it. You two do need some help fast, there has to be alot more to this than meet the eye. Most people just dont shut down that quickly over an EA, its usually a long term PA when that happens. JMHO!

My wife regarded the EA/fantasy as a slight to her. She says because I never mentioned anything good about her in the emails to OW that I really feel that way about her and that I don't think she contributed anything to the M. She says she's not going to compete for my attention or affection. I told her there was no competion, that the A was over and I would never contact her again. W just said she'll pass. I even offered her all my passwords at home and at work.

I did lie to her about the EA at first until she showed me her proof. I lied about the phone calls and the webcam till she showed me the proof. Now she thinks I lie about everything even the fact that I want our M to work.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by HarryS:
I never told her I was married(

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm confused .... your W is upset you never mentioned anything good about her to your online OW .... how could you, when you were pretending you were not married?

Which is it?

Did you mention your wife in an unflattering way, or did you pretend you had no wife?

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife regarded the EA/fantasy as a slight to her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And what was her having sex with another man wasn't a slight?

Geesh she needs a MB 2 X 4 swat to the head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I guess I have to say "wow". I thought I was going to get flamed for my crossing the line. In a way I guess I was expecting the worst like I got from her.

Pepper: No, I eluded to the being already divorced from her. I gave brief history of our relationship (1 paragraph) in an email. My W thought I should have sung her praises in that paragraph, or at leat thats what she said. I did refer to how I thought about her when we first met, "a skinny little asian girl", but W already knew I didn't like her when we first met.

SDFR: She doesn't subscribe to the MB principles, I have yet been unable to get her to read anything.

I do feel guilty. I'm remorsful for what I've done. I've tried talking to her about it, but all I get is a deaf ear. I even went and bought her a gift and wrapped it. She refuses to even look at it. I've told her mother about what I've done prior to the meeting tonight. She thinks my W is just looking for a way out of the M without it being her fault. She's very understanding about me and supports me and our staying married.

BUT I don't think she or the rest of her family will convince her to work on it. She's very resolute. I don't have much hope that anything tonight will change what she seems to have her mind set on.

hmmm, sounds to me your WW is using your emotional affair as her escape plan to get out of the marriage and not to have any blame put upon herself for her affair! JMO

I agree completely with trying2_4give.

While your internet romance was wrong and inappropriate, your WW's response to it shows that she sees this as the perfect opportunity to dump the marriage, and put all the blame on you. I wonder when she tells everyone about your "affair" will she also fess up about her own?

Oscar

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by HarryS:

"a skinny little asian girl", </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do YOU think this is an unflattering thing for a husband to say about his wife to another woman? Or, do you think there is something flattering about this?

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by HarryS:
I even went and bought her a gift and wrapped it. She refuses to even look at it.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You even bought her a gift.....? Are you serious? A gift?

What has this gift got to do with anything?

Pep

Okay Harry here is the thirty lashes with a wet noodle you so richly deserve.

Two wrongs don't make a right...yawn.

Seriously the betrayer complains the loudest about being betrayed?

She needs the attitude adjustment.

Your actions are wrong but they are in part driven by the fact you are extremely harmed by her actions. And its your sense of self worth that is most seriously damaged.

Again while wrong its quite common for a betrayed spouse to try rebuild their sense of self worth and sometimes that includes getting attention and affirmation from the opposite sex.

Harry:

My FWW still has nightmares about the job she was working at when RM consulted for her. This morning, she ruminated about how her former super will probably always blame others (including her) for things going wrong at work, even though my W hasn't been there in about 2 or 3 months now.

I had an epiphany, and said "Some people will probably choose 2 blame others for their troubles for the rest of their lives. They have no idea how liberating it is 2 take responsibility for your own actions."

This applies here. Whether you 2 decide 2 reconcile or DV, you are not excused from doing the hard, self-examination work. Neither of you. You can't blame the other and toss your troubles in the "they did it" trash can. It ain't that easy... ...unless neither one of you has a conscience, or personal integrity. And in either case, you can't get her 2 do anything. You can only realize this yourself and hope, at best, that she will realize it for herself.

Take care,
-2long

HI Harry. Your situation brings back some memories for me. After I left my H actually asked me to set him up a chat account so he could try to find someone else...heck, he asked me if I'd HELP him find someone else. He figured if I didn't want him anymore...he'd better get to work finding someone else. Not the greatest thing he could have done...but in the light of everything...he wasn't all wrong either.

He talked with one gal over chat, another over email...one called him for a while. I caught him in a chat room flirting with a woman once and flew in to a rage. Keep in mind...I was in an A with his BEST FRIEND!!! As far as he knew I left him to marry this guy...yet I was OUTRAGED!! And he apologized to me...and he felt guilty.

Stupid??? Yea...pretty messed up.

Down the road a little more he got hooked up with someone else. Now this was after we were already filed for Dv and had NUMEROUS false recoveries and had been seperated for many months. Yet when I found out I was sick and hurt and raging yet again.

For me...it got me to pull my head out. At that point, needless to say, I had NO right to point fingers anymore. We had both screwed up soo much and done so much damage to our M.

Yet, it was the wakeup call for us. I called H and talked to him...when he stood up for himself I AGREED with him. I ADMITTED my stupidity and hard headedness. And this time around...our reconciliation was good. And I can tell you we are as rock solid as they get....there won't be another time around for us. We've got it nailed.

So don't kick yourself over making a mistake...just don't do it again...and don't bow to your wifes baloney either...because she isn't being productive in this situation either. Now you can better understand how she got herself in to her situation...and she knows what it's like to feel betrayed.

Harry the next time your W tells you that the marriage is over, please consider conveying to her the following in a calm and soothing voice:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Honey, I want our marriage to work. But you’re right, it’s not working. I’ll help you move out."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That’s it! Why would you say this to her? Because resisting, begging, and pleading to get your wife to change her mind only challenges her more strongly to get her way. These words will give her the impression that you are not going to fight anymore about anything. In effect, you are calling her bluff. Once you agree to a divorce, all the tough work of what is involved in the divorce will land straight on her shoulders. She will be facing the prospect of possibly living alone, and of going through the legal matters of a divorce. Also, by using these words, you will be clearly indicating that you are taking responsibility for your part in what went wrong with the marriage. Instead of having an argument with her, simply telling her "You are right" can have a wonderful healing effect.

Remember Harry that it ain't over until all the i's and t's have been signed and as far as I know that has yet to happen.

I wholeheartedly agree!!

Let's just get a DV is often a threat...or at the very least a desperate attempt at a decision. We think it will alleviate the pain faster because now the decision is made.

Call her bluff.

Pepper: No. I don't think it was a nice thing to say and yes I know it probably hurt her very much. BUT....Thats was never written with the intent of her seeing it AND the EA was not about her. It was all about me. It was about ME selfishly getting my needs met. It was about keeping the spigot of compliments and love feelings open and flowing. When I wrote it I was not thinking about her, nor was I thinking about her when I wrote anything to the OW. As far as the gift thing goes......it was more a peace offering than a way to make up for the EA. It was ment as a opening to conversation. It was in no means ment as a pay off.

TMCM: Glad to see you here..... Words of wisdom. I took you up on that last night in fact.

SDFR: Too much affirmation. With you in my corner I'd feel justified in doing anything! What I did was wrong under any circumstance. I feel guilty and I should. Thanks for the support. I need that.

Hope4F: You know one thing in all the reading I've done on this site it has undeniably given me one thing. The knowledge that there are plenty of people out there in FAR worse shape than I and have done far worse things that we have. In the fog and under the infulence of an A we do soom really absurd stuff. Thanks for your story....


At her parents house they grilled me on all the details of my EA and I was completely open and honest. I explained why it happened and what I intend to do to prevent it happening again. They appealed to my W to reconsider her decision to Dv and she stayed resolute. They even played the guilt card and it didn't work. After all was said and done I looked over at her and said, "Honey, I love you with all my heart. I want our marriage to work, but I can't make you change your mind. It's not working and I can't do it alone. If you still want me to move out this weekend I will go." She said yes.
I left shortly after that and went home. W came home and told me she still loved me, but this is for the best. I stayed dry-eyed (thank you lexapro) and she asked if I had anything to eat. I said no, not in the past few days and she made me some soup and sat with me while I ate it. Around midnight she came in and held my hand for a few minutes and then went to bed.

So today I go fork over another deposit for an apartment and move out this weekend (if available).

This time should be easier with the AntiD's keeping me a bit more stable. She plans to be with her family all weekend so she says she'll not stop me this time.

Wish me luck...Bluff calling eh? What choice do I have?

Harry I wished that you had not added more words to the little script I gave you and you left TWO of the most important and key parts of said script which are 'You are right' and 'I'll help you move out'.

Why are you the one who gets to leave? Wasn't she after all the one that had the original full blown EA/PA and would not give up contact with the OM? True you did have a short EA but still if she wants to divorce you then it should be she that should get to move out. Sorry but I suspect that she is using your EA as an excuse to continue having contact with the OM. I would seriouly reconsider you moving out, just to make things easier on her.

TMCM: We have talked about the house in the past. My W has a much better salary than I do and can afford to keep the house. Alone I would not be able to make the payments and living expenses. We have discussed disposal of our assets and she agreed that she would buy me out of the house. I think the reality of living in that big house alone that we built together AND having to do all the upkeep on it will be more of a fog lifter than moving out to a nice low maintenance apt where she doesn't have to worry about upkeep. She's never paid the bills so that will also be a reality call. I do all the yard work and she'll have to pick that up too. There are much more responsibilities to home ownership than apartment living and responsibilities is what she's been dodging.

Moneywise I'll be sitting in high cotton by moving out. I will be able to pay all my monthly expenses and still have 70% disposal 'mad' money. Then if the Dv goes through she will pay me a lump sum buyout for equity in the home. I will be able to use this for a healthy downpayment on a place of my own. (a place with no bad memories).

Oh, btw.... I said that before I read your script. I didn't read it till after I got home last night. If the right opportunity arises in the next day or two I will use your condensed version with the change of me moving out.