</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong> What he doesn't seem to see is that I have grave doubts about his ability to be a husband. He has to "prove" himself, because I'm just not willing to go through this again. Though I love him deeply, I have had to reevaluate his worth and character.

Maybe part of him does realize this. But that all just traps him more in non-action. And of course me, too. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So this is now at a standoff?

L.

You betcha. It's probably been there for awhile.

....and it's gonna be ________?

??????????????

He knows that, out of the two of us, I am the more restless and nervous. He knows he can outwait me. But maybe not this time, because I honestly don't know what to do. I can't take him "as is." It's not fair to my D.

My stepson was over for dinner last night. It was amazing how easy it was to be together without his inhibiting presence and black moods. He will have to do a sell job with them to come back.

None of this is what he wants. None of this is even what he knows. He hopes to be wooed back. He wants to be wanted. Though I miss him, I have to admit the household is happier without him. He doesn't know any of this. He's been in the world of the A, and hasn't been interested. He hasn't asked a single emotional question since he left -- nor answered one. So you were worried about anger, Orchid -- not a chance. Just the Big Chill. Meanwhile, I'm spinning in circles because every time I stop, he does just enough to spin the wheel again. But he won't help clean up the mess. He wants me to do that.

What is the sound of one hand clapping?

<small>[ October 21, 2003, 12:35 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

AM...no offense, but as I read the past couple of pages of posts...I see a story unfolding from a few lines of communication and a couple of rumors.

You're getting angry with him for how he's trying to manipulate you...yet you only have an assumption that that is what's occurring.

Much much more has probably gone on, much much more is probably in the works, and it's extremely doubtful that even HE knows what's going on in his head right now.

You need to DETACH DETACH DETACH and quit assuming. Read the book "the four agreement" by Don Miguel Ruiz. I think it might be extremely pertinent right now...and it's a quick read and inexpensive.

Your situation will play out however it plays out eventually...but you don't have to go nuts in the meantime!!!

H4F, You are 3/4s right (and of course I'm not offended!). I am going by history. The patterns I'm describing are historical ones that I'm just beginning to recognize again. Patterns of trying to force other people's hands. Patterns of minimizing his own emotional risk and increasing that of others. It's always turned me into a pretzel. But your point is well taken that it doesn't have to do so now.

When M#2 ended, he did this huge information control thing so that no one knew what was going on. No one knew that he was getting divorced. He says many, many words, but there are three he cannot say: "She dumped me." I'm seeing that pattern again too.

Oh...the other three: "I am sorry."

And part of the modus operandi is to wind others up, get them nervous, reactive, etc., with his controlling mechanisms -- while he stays calm and imperturbable, no matter how insane his actions.

So he keeps looking good, and you look like the crazy one.

You can only be manipulated and worked in to a frenzy if you allow it.

You're smarter than that!!

Detach and let him continue to dig his tunnel.

Still no more to add?

Wait for him to run to you and ask for what he wants. You deserve this.

A.M. I understand how you feel because my husband likes to be vague and have me respond to the slightest encouragement without having to say or do what I really need. Annoying isn't it? We taught them to treat us this way and we CAN stop reinforcing that pattern. You deserve more so stay dark until he delivers. (Please remind me of the same thing if I come back here someday sounding like I might sell myself short, OK?) Just think of all the mess and hurt he was willing to create in order to have his affair. You deserve a COMMITTMENT he will put just as much effort into cleaning up his mess and making it clear he wants you before you respond. You gave him the Plan B Letter as the assurance you would be willing to reconcile when he did what he had to do. I guess you can give him another copy of the letter or ask him to refer back to it if you are worried he may need further reassurance or he'll give up? I sometimes feel the same fear you do, that my husband will only make a minimal effort and then give up if it doesn't pay off totally for him. But you know what? That would probably mean he's still just looking to divorce without having to take any responsibility fo rthe decision, still pretending our break-up and the affair were all my fault and he supposedly 'did all he could', blah-blah-blah.

My husband had affairs in the past and I always took him back without him having to prove himself to me. It never worked. I knew I sold myself short and he didn't even act as if he appreciated it, didn't make a committment to change or follow through on counseling, and fooled around again. There is no such thing as a little bit committed. If they're not ready to take the risk we shouldn't be either.

You also mention the kids and home life seem happier since you are in Plan B. My daughters would probably mutiny if I let my husband come back into our lives right now, without doing what he needs to do LOL I have to set a good example for them of how they should expect men to treat them.

As for the saving face part: My husband admits he's worried what to tell his coworkers and relatives if we reconcile (because he lied to rewrite marital history to blame me for everything grrrr). Everytime he said that I assured him that would be our problem to face together IF we reconciled. (BTW, I made no promise not to expose the truth if we divorced.) But I think you are talking more about saving face with you? Or do you mean he doesn't want to have to beg forgiveness or admit wrong-doing?

I noticed your last post in this thread was the 21st, so I don't know if you're still feeling this way... But the little prayer I will say for you right now will be that you will love yourself enough to not settle for anything than the best.