I have to tell you that I really enjoy your posts. I have learned so much from them.

Anyway, I just read your post on Passionate Marriage about how the Harleys wouldn't do MC with a couple because they had seen that one person was still involved in an A.

I look back to November 6, 2001. My H had told me I was "psychotic" to be so upset about his admitting to lunch with this woman and how he had talked to our parish priest who recommended I get individual counseling.

My first appointment was November 6th. I brought my H in to give his perspective on November 19th. I have looked back, thinking if only we had gone to MC and not IC because I was so upset...

I have had a lot of guilt about that, about how I just couldn't handle his breaking our agreement not to see her and so I went to IC instead of suggesting MC. Now I see that he wanted me to get counseling, he wanted me to be the problem...
He didn't want IC for himself or MC because he didn't want to end the A.

Thank you bhaa for your kind words. It makes me happy to know that some of my rants have been helpful to you.

Yes sadly many of us BS's have had to deal with WS's that have been really good at manipulating our feelings to make us feel that is WE that are responsible for their choice to have an affair. They even go so far as to attend one or two counseling sessions to demonstrate that they are 'trying' to save the marriage when what they want to do is just give lip service to it without any intention to actually do so. Speaking of the word 'trying', let me share something from a newsletter from Penny Tupy (our resident MB coach Cerri):

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Stop Trying to Save Your Marriage (10-24)

Over the past couple of weeks I’ve had similar conversations with more than one person on the subject of trying to save a marriage. And each time I came away troubled with the concept in general. Trying to save your marriage? Trying? A terrible word that gives the person permission to fail. Trying implies that you’ll give it a go, but you’re not really all that committed to success and if it doesn’t work… well, you tried.

In one of the earlier Star Wars movies Luke Skywalker is deep in the wilds of the swamp planet Dagobah working with the Jedi Master Yoda. Yoda tell Luke to raise his crashed and sunken ship from the muck using only the Force. Luke looks doubtful at best and replies that he’ll, “try.” Yoda responds, “Do or do not. Never try.”

Ok, so I admit I was young and impressionable when Star Wars first hit the big screen, but those few words of wisdom spoken by Yoda have stayed with me over the years. As I began my career and as I became more and more interested in the field of human potential and development this was a theme I heard over and over again. I attended numerous seminars, workshops and training sessions on motivating for excellence. I subscribed to more than one publication that was devoted to effecting change in oneself or facilitating it in others. Everywhere I went, the message was the same. Do or do not. Never try.

The phrase, “self-talk,” has been big in pop psychology in the last twenty years. One of the things we know about the human condition is that the way we speak to ourselves and the words we use have a powerful influence on our behavior. It’s the concept behind the use of affirmations which became very popular in the early 80’s and continues to be used effectively to create change to this day.

So where am I going with all this and how does it relate to marriage? Here’s my thought. In order to create real and lasting change in marriage it requires not only work, but commitment. Success is measured by results. In daily life no one really gets a lot of credit for tying. If you tell your family that you tried to make dinner, but no food ever appears, they are not going to grant you any big points. If you tell your boss you tried to get to work on time but just couldn’t do it day in and day out, I would suspect you wouldn’t have a job for any length of time. Our relationship with our spouse is much the same.

The result – the success or failure of your marriage – depends on what you do, not on what you try. Make a commitment to do the fearless work of crafting a marriage that is open, honest, caring, courteous and respectful. Every moment affords you the chance to make choices which move you closer to that goal. Just Do It.

May the Force Be With You."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

We had MC again today. I'm happy with how it is going.

My H said I am too controlling, and I agree. I did everything I could to stop the A. Now I said what I will do is tell him how I feel and then the ball is in his court. The A is supposed to be over. Great. But then there are other matters. I will put them out for him.

I think we have a terrific MC.

Anyway, where did you get your quote from? I like it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"My H said I am too controlling, and I agree. I did everything I could to stop the A."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry bhaa but I could not stop laughing when your H told you that you were too controlling because practically all WS have said that about their BS. If I had a dollar for every time I heard that a WS said their BS is too controlling, I would be a very rich man. What they fail to see is it is THEY that were the controlling spouse because they opted to have an affair while still wanting to remain married, and used lies and deceipt to control their BS from knowing the truth about the affair and thus purposely denied them the choice of whether to remain married to them or divorce them. But the best thing to do is just smile at them and remember the old saying 'You can't argue with a sick mind'.

It was controlling of me to try to stop the A. I'm just not sure what I should have done. Maybe exposing the A means nothing if the heart isn't there anyway.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by broken heart and arm:
<strong> It was controlling of me to try to stop the A. I'm just not sure what I should have done. Maybe exposing the A means nothing if the heart isn't there anyway. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How did you try to stop the A that makes you say your were controlling?

I called the woman several times during the affair. Once, he threw me down after I had called, and I called her back to tell her that I was holding a 5 year old boy who was crying because he had just seen his father throw his mother to the floor. I threatened to call her another time and he broke my arm. I called the woman right after he broke my arm and told her he broke my arm. I made harassing phone calls to her home. Finally, I called Harley's radio show, he told me to call her husband, I called her husband and told him, among other things, that he had broken my arm, and the husband got out of his wife that she and my husband had been having an affair.

I'm sorry if my question brought painful memories to you. While it may be true that your calls to the OW might have bordered on harassment, the truth is that your H's abusive behavior was totally inexcusable <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . No man, who truly is a man, should treat a woman (especially his W) in such a despicable manner. Again I am very sorry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Oh no. I am trying to make sense of what happened now that the emotional eruption is over. I ended up with a Harassment Order from Sophia -- well-deserved -- and it was a turning point in recovery because I realized that the person who made marriage vows wtih me was Tom, not Sophia. Lots of Sophias out there...