I know this question has been asked over and over again here, but in your brief but humble opinion, psychologically speaking if possible, why do you think people cheat, even when their marriage is pretty darn good?

I know the standard MB answer is b/c one's needs aren't all being met well enough by their spouse. But, do you think it's possible for people to pretty much have all their needs met at home, but still cheat for some other reason?

I am asking because I am still unsure why I cheated on my H. I have my guesses, but in the end I am still at a loss. It's like some other person took over my body and made foolish decisions for me, decisions that I will always regret.

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Jen check this out:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Since one of these causes is usually unfulfilled emotional needs, the betrayed spouse should express a willingness to meet those needs after the affair has ended. Another common cause is a wayward spouse's failure to take the betrayed spouse's feelings into account. The betrayed spouse's inconsiderate behavior sometimes leads the wayward spouse to believe that he or she has the right to return thoughtlessness with thoughtlessness by having an affair. Willingness of the betrayed spouse to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward resolving the issue of thoughtlessness.

A third possible cause of an affair is a lifestyle where spouses spend much of their leisure time apart from each other, and form leisure-time friendships with those of the opposite sex. A plan to avoid being away from each other overnight and making each other favorite leisure-time companions goes a long way toward creating a passionate marriage that is essentially affair-proof. "</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It seems that the good Dr Harley is saying that there are more causes of an affair than just unmet EN's.

Yeah, true enough TMCM. I guess the part about social time spent apart contributed to both my A's...but I still wonder what allowed me to cross that line, what part of me was deficient.

Also, just in case anyone is curious, for my latest sad update, go here.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
I guess the part about social time spent apart contributed to both my A's...but I still wonder what allowed me to cross that line, what part of me was deficient.

Jen</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen, if I remember correctly (my 45 year old mind doesn't have much brain cells left <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) your A's started after your H's EA's with the OW. If this is so, then your self esteem sounds like it could have taken a nose dive and made you, like many BS's (like it or not you are one),extremely susceptible to the advances of the OM.

YEah, you could argue that.

The one thing I've realized before too, but doubt that I've posted here, is that all of my infidelity has happened right after my H has had serious health difficulty (cancer scare, gall bladder surgery), or after someone in our family has (his mom's breast cancer before my last affair). It's like I'm a selfish little child (I was sort of an only child b/c my brother was 11 years older, and left when I was 7), who if she can't have all the attention, she'll get it somewhere.

Jen

Jen, my H still can't figure out totally why he had his A either - he looks back now and can't even believe he did this! He keeps telling me that nothing I did or didn't do contritubed to the A, and that our marriage was wonderful and he's always loved me and never the OW. However, he has used the word "complacent" as something our marriage became. He says it wasn't boring, but was just going along really well, nothing major exciting, no major stumbling blocks, and then whammo! a firm butt was put in his face and he crossed the line. This was after 22 years of faithful marriage. So now guess what my job is?? I'm working on making sure he has my full, undivided attention. During the 1-1/2 yrs he was have the A, I was working harder than ever in my business, didn't have tons of time together, tired sometimes for sex,..you know the drill. I was still a good wife, but obviously not attentive enough. I don't blame myself for his A, but I can now see where my deficits were that may have contributed to it. He feels his A were driven by "excitement".."something different" the need for the "ego to be fulfilled". He says it was all very selfish of him, and he's now very ashamed and embarrassed about it. So now we work and work and work.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong> I know this question has been asked over and over again here, but in your brief but humble opinion, psychologically speaking if possible, why do you think people cheat, even when their marriage is pretty darn good?

I know the standard MB answer is b/c one's needs aren't all being met well enough by their spouse. But, do you think it's possible for people to pretty much have all their needs met at home, but still cheat for some other reason?

I am asking because I am still unsure why I cheated on my H. I have my guesses, but in the end I am still at a loss. It's like some other person took over my body and made foolish decisions for me, decisions that I will always regret.

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear Jen B:

I think this is an ABSOLUTELY VITAL POST!! Thanks for starting it.

Let me begin by stating the obvious. Dr. H & many others have shown the clear connection between the lack of meeting of EN + LB = A equation.

What is almost always left out is this.

Living in a fallen world, we humans have a very sinful nature from birth. You see it from the earliest days of childhood. It is clearly self-centered. It idolizes our own pleasure at the expense of anyone else!

So I believe that, as Dr. Harley espouses, everyone is capable of having an A. Particularly since we have this sinful nature problem, we are easy targets for God's #1 sworn enemy -- the fallen angel Lucifer.

Think of it as each of us walking around with a great big bulleye painted on our backs. The devil just waits and waits like a stalking hunter waiting to pick us off at the most opportune moment. Moments he arranges! Circumstances he sets up! He clearly delights in the misery and pain of affairs and divorce.

Certainly since the 60s, he has ramped up this attack on modern society. Folks look everywhere for the "WHYS"! The answer is really quite simple. We are fallen people in need of a power outside ourselves to withstand these assaults from the enemy of God.

So, why do people cheat? Because we are liars and cheaters from the beginning! Because without surrender to an outside Divine Power, we are helpless to overcome this awful self-centerdness that KILLS those we swore to love and protect!

Think of it! Stop! Listen to the pain pouring out on this forum 24/7/365!! It is heart-breaking! It is hideous!! It is evil personified!!!!

We choke in tears at the sight of a Muslim terrorist strapping a bomb to themself and taking out another busload of the unsuspecting innocent.

But we hardly flinch at something FAR WORSE!! The sight of one sworn to love and protect for life strapping on their "favorite sexy outfit" to pleasure themself with an illicit lover, all the while gutting the life out of their betrayed life partner. Wounding forever. Chopping the innocent trusting heart into a million pieces that leave the victim spouse shuddering in a fetal position quivering as their very life dies within them. Ask me how I know this....

Men and women who said they would love and cherish till death do us part -- are now worse than murderers! They have become torturers who slowly, methodically, selfishly ambush the deepest, the most tender & most vulnerable parts of the one they once loved! It is unthinkable...

Falling into an Affair is like becoming emotional cannibals! We eat and devour the very heart out of our dear unsuspecting spouses -- who, though themselves flawed and imperfect -- clearly don't deserve to be eaten alive from the inside out by the gut-wrenching pain of betrayed love.

Yes, Jen as you so aptly said, "it is like somebody else took over my body"...I suggest to you that this epedimic of human betrayal and affairs is nothing short of a modern day demonstration of demon possession in sophisticated form.

The answer? Not psycho-babble. Not more flawed man-made fixes. People need the Lord Jesus Christ desperately in their lives. Now! There is no time to lose. Only He can rebuke the Enemy of Lust & Self-centerdness. Only He can offer the cleansing forgiveness + power to overcome this terrible tendency towards self-centered behavior that is destroying the very fabric of American society.

Everything else? It's just a band-aid. We can screw up our resolve not to succumb to an A. Problem is we are no match for those demons of lust and opportunity and LB's and non-met EN's!!!
Like Dr. H says, "we are all capable of having an A"! And now you know the reason why.

Here is what I've learned to cling to as I've laid dying in my fetal position of betrayal.

******** Help Me God **********************

Help me, God I’m scared
And I’m unprepared to face the night alone,
Hear me, hear my prayer,
My soul it aches and I’ve no where to go,
Help me God,

In this dark hour I know only the power that made the stars,
Can mend my heart
Oh I’ve tried on my own, but I’m not that strong,
You’re all I’ve got…You’re all I’ve got,
Help me God.

Sometimes, people leave,
And I can grieve cause life’s not always fair,
Help me, to hold on
Though I can’t see you, I believe You’re there,
I know You’re there…

In this dark hour I know only the power that made the stars,
Can mend my heart

Oh I’ve tried on my own, but I’m not that strong,
You’re all I’ve got…You’re all I’ve got,
Help me God.

Oh I’ve tried on my own, but I’m not that strong,
You’re all I’ve got…You’re all I’ve got,
Help me God.

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: High Flight ]</small>

jen, i believe there are a multitude of reasons why people cheat on their spouse. drinking liquor and hanging out in bars will open the door for an affair. lack of sexual fulfillment may be another. boredom and having too much time on one's hands may be another reason. not being totally committed to the marriage and a lack of maturity may be a couple of other reasons. some people are so silly they do it for revenge. others just don't give a damn. i'm sure there are many more reasons. these are only a few. in my opinion, married people should do what ever is necessary to avoid affairs. this is a sure fire way to put your marriage in jeopardy.

Jen,

While it has been several months since I visited MB I very much remember you. You were kind enough to share your thoughts with me when I was really struggling. Your words were very helpful. Thank you. I am sorry to learn that things are not going well.

One thing I have learned during the past year is that we all have some needs that only we ourselves can meet. While we are products of our environment to a degree, it is our choice to walk through some doors and not through others.

Jen, all I have to offer is that we are only human. You cannot change what has happened. The question is what will you do now?

Hang in there. Seek professional help.

Jen:

I honestly don't know what 2 say. I have had a tough time finding out what 2 say in the past 2ple of days because your sitch, which I thought I unders2d a little about since I've posted 2 you since you first came here, got a whole lot more complicated in the past few days.

♣You just revealed that you had a PA BEFORE the 2 ONSs that your H "discovered" last year by listening 2 you outside the door. And you only just realized that OS is sex? I am not villifying you by this post. I am confused becuase I didn't know this about you, and all the "help" I thought I was offering was directed at helping you recover from an A that your H could very easily have stopped if he had wanted 2. The OS PA puts a whole new light on your H's D-day. I have 2 wonder if he knew about the previous PA, and that somehow affected his behavior when the 2ONS A happened? Because it certainly never made sense 2 me before.

♣But then, you also told us that he wanted 2 watch you have sex with an OM. This partly explains why he didn't interrupt last year, but it makes me wonder why, if he wanted 2 watch, he didn't just come in and watch then. Also, if he wanted this, why is he speculating that his BF is feeling guilty for breaking up your M when that's what he wants?

♣This is all confusing. I still don't think that your H's statements of regret over your M breaking up are sufficient 2 stall a DV, though. I do think you've come a long way in your time here. You still have work 2 do, though. I hope that, if you do DV, that you keep seeking answers, particularly from a good IC. Your STBXH is your STBXH's "problem." Let him figure him out. He'll have 2 do that if he's DVd, and he'll certainly have 2 hurry up and do it if he wants 2 stay Md.

As 2 your 2uestion: Why do people cheat? I think missing, or perhaps in this case "misplaced" needs, are a huge factor. Speaking from personal experience, I've never cheated, at least not with an OP (because keeping anything secret from our spouse is a form of cheating, and I have done that), and so I do know how hard it might be 2 offer a sensible answer 2 that 2uestion. But I think that the 2uestion has 2 be answered by ourselves in reference 2 ourselves. I "cheated" by smoking pot with friends 15 years ago, not telling my W about it, because... ...well, it was s2pid, really. We were drinking at a party. Somebody lit up a joint, I gave it little thought, and I smoked it with them... No good explanation, and maybe there isn't one in answer 2 your 2uestion in your particular case.

The 2uestion(s) should instead, perhaps be: What are you going 2 do now? For the rest of your life? Who is Jen?

♥2long

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Jen,
If you are asking WS's why we cheated I can partially answer that question but I cannot give a complete answer b/c I'm trying to discover the complete answer.

Besides the physical attraction/conquest. There was an excitement that I hadn't felt or hadn't felt in a long time. I was/am a lonley person and I have a great need for companionship;a need for acceptance;a place where I could be totaly me and nt worry that I would be critisized for my thoughts,language or actions. I wasn't afraid to express myself or feelings. I felt totally free.

Both of us felt we had/have good marriages.
H

because they can. LouLou

Jen, I counseled with Steve Harley for several months and during our 1st conversation he said this.

#1 Reason for affairs is the WS failure to protect themselves from an affair. It's a weakness.

I like his answer for several reasons. One; I don't think anyone sets out to have an affair to intentionally hurt their spouse or themselves. Two; it gives the WS a clearer direction of what to do to prevent another affair from happening. SH refers to it as affair-proofing your marriage. Which is probably very good advice for all human beings.

Another poster referred to the "feelings he felt during the affair". It's those feelings that become addicting. The excitement, the risk etc. That was what my FWH found extremely intoxicating. So as part of affair-proofing our marriage, we work on the excitment & other intoxicating feelings.

The reasons people have affairs are many; but if the forward focus can be on preventing future affairs in new relationships in your life I think you'll feel a whole lot better. I sounds like you've gained some great personal insight into yourself during this process. Blessings, CSue

I know the standard MB answer is b/c one's needs aren't all being met well enough by their spouse
That's NOT the standard MB answer although it could be sorta misread that way.
Which is one reason people need to at least read "Surviving An Affair" and a few other books.
Lots of people come here, read a few posts and think the know everything they need to do to save their marriage. Or even if they should save their marriage.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts on this. My recent conversations with my H, and my own self-loathing have simply left me feeling really low about myself, and how I could let my H and myself down as I did by cheating on him.

Hiker, you sounded like you were describing my feelings when you said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Besides the physical attraction/conquest. There was an excitement that I hadn't felt or hadn't felt in a long time. I was/am a lonley person and I have a great need for companionship;a need for acceptance;a place where I could be totaly me and nt worry that I would be critisized for my thoughts,language or actions. I wasn't afraid to express myself or feelings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2long and all of you who've followed my posts since the beginning, I apologize for witholding the information about my PA 3 years ago, and misleading everyone about my character in the process. I buried it in my mind b/c I never told my H the whole truth about it, only a partial story (he thinks that I and the OM fooled around once and that was it), and so oddly enough I didn't reveal all to him or you folks.

jimtex, thanks for this, it really spoke to me too:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> One thing I have learned during the past year is that we all have some needs that only we ourselves can meet. While we are products of our environment to a degree, it is our choice to walk through some doors and not through others.

Jen, all I have to offer is that we are only human. You cannot change what has happened. The question is what will you do now? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen

Jen:

"I apologize for witholding the information about my PA 3 years ago, and misleading everyone about my character in the process."

No problem. This DOES explain why you've been so hard on yourself for all this time. Now that you've "come clean" about it, you can begin the healing. For you.

I still believe that these things DO happen 2 marriages as a wakeup call 2 one or both partners. It certainly is true in my case. And if I'm doing my homework right, I will continue 2 view this new knowledge I have of just WHO my W is and who I am as an OPPOR2NITY for personal growth, however this shakes down.

-2long

Here is another MB poster who offers some insight that I tend to agree with.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=025541

Although my W had the A, there have been times over the years when i have come close. Never jumped off the cliff, though. Each time was during a period of selfishness.

Thoughts?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong> Thanks to everyone for your thoughts on this. My recent conversations with my H, and my own self-loathing have simply left me feeling really low about myself, and how I could let my H and myself down as I did by cheating on him.

Jen, all I have to offer is that we are only human. You cannot change what has happened. The question is what will you do now? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen </strong>[/QUOTE]

Jen ~ as I said before, I respect you for addressing this. It is a "Core Issue". A couple more food for thoughts...

1. It is actually very important and correct for you to be in a position of extreme self-loathing right now. Your conscience is convicting you, and this can be a tremendous ally going forward to make certain this does not reoccur.

So don't be in the extreme hurry many are to shake off the remorse and conviction. It will have a more profound therapuetic effect on you than many hours of MC or internet surfing on MB.

2. Most answers given here, while I respect them as being a part of the puzzle of an affair-prone person acting out, fail to address the core issue of self-centeredness. The basic sin problem. Sure being in bars, enjoying the neurococtail of good feelings, the conquest, etc., etc., are all a SYMPTOM of what is going wrong. But what is at the CORE of what is going wrong with a WS is at the core of their being.

You can band-aid symptoms all you want. You may mask the disease. You won't cure the patient.

<small>[ November 06, 2003, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: High Flight ]</small>