I discovered my wife was involved in an A last month after I caught her in a critical lie regarding her activities. I asked her right away about it, but she used another lie to cover it up. I went to the extreme of monitoring every communication medium she was using and I was shocked what I found. In each case she would only admit the truth when confronted with something that she couldn't deny.

Despite all of this, she will only admit to having a "close friendship" with a male and that she lied about her whereabouts a few times. The things I've read and heard suggest that much more has occured, including physical contact.

The OM involved has moved away, but they may still be in contact. Because of my "spying", she doesn't use any communication means at home to talk to him. I asked her directly to stop talking to him but she's resisting because of her insistance that it was only ever a friendship. I want to try Plan A on this, but it seems it's hard to even get that started. I don't want to keep drudging up what's happened, but what do you do when there is nothing but denial?

Most of the material on the MB site here makes a lot of sense, I understand the part that lacking EN's have played in this on both of our parts and I want to work on that.

Any input/questions would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

<small>[ November 04, 2003, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: Rippedin2 ]</small>

I thought I would add that some of the critical lies on this involved a supposed business trip that turned out to be a weekend with the "friend", they supposedly had separate hotel rooms. Another one involved a party with an overnight stay; she had said her best friend was with her when she wasn't. The party also seems to be a fabrication.

Her best friend would not give me any details on anything, but said that I "had a right to be concerned" about what was happening.

Hi Ripped

Have you read His Needs/Her Needs and Surviving an Affair. Both of you should read them. She is still in the Fog and if still in contact will continue to be so. Keep investigating.

Do Plan A, start meeting those EN's that you can. Do what you can. Also, set a date on how long Plan A will last. Read up and plan for Plan B. Hopefully you won't need it. Be consistant with your behaviour. Keep being honest and caring and showing her you love her.

Keep telling her that you love her. The A and the OM are a fantasy, your reality.

God Bless

Sorry your here my friend...
If she is refusing to give up the "friendship " odds are its more than friendship...
Right now she is denial of doing anything wrong, denial of being wrong, your the one who is wrong your the one trying to force her...So she is rebelling,..Its called fog and boy it can get to be so thick yu cant even cut it with a knife....Im sorry your here and wish you well..

Thank you for the replies.

I'm planning on getting some of those books, particularly the "Surving..." title. I can't see my wife reading them at this point as she can't even be honest with herself right now, but I'll do whatever it takes to prepare myself and get things in motion.

I can't see my wife reading them at this point as she can't even be honest with herself right now, but I'll do whatever it takes to prepare myself and get things in motion.

One of the worst things you can do is to try and "educate" your W. It will only serve to pi$$ her off. SAA (Surviving An Affair) is a great book, for you. She will see it as you trying to controll her. The best thing you can do in regards to her right now is read everything there is to read on this site. Particularly about Plan A and Plan B. Then impliment them. How many people know about the A?

MTD

Not many (that I know of anyways). Her best friend (who I spoke to), her father and that's about it. She was outraged that I spoke to both of them about it.

The education thing makes sense, but how do I even implement Plan A when she will not admit something has happened? I can't even get her to identify her EN's at this point. Very frustrating.

They are right. If this person was only a "friend' then it would not be such a big deal to break off the friendship. Considering you ARE her H.

Plus, the marriage vows say
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">forsaking all others, be true to him/her as long as you both shall live?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Ripped,

You can only work with what you have. If your wife will not talk about her needs then you can only do the best Plan A you can.

As for your wife admitting her affair think of it as not important at this point. You've confronted her with the facts and she know's you know.

My WW left in March this year on dday to pursue her affair. This was about 5 months after I caught her in a BIG lie. I also began finding stuff.

To this day I have recieved one I'm sorry that was on dday and of course the usual babble.

Ignore what your wife is saying, doing etc and use the tools on this site. You are likely in for many days of denial, re-inventing of marriage past, justification, etc.

hang in there

Thanks Goodguy,

I've come to believe that your approach will be my only choice on this, given her stuborness.

Since I don't want to push her away any further the best I can do is make sure I don't create any more Love Buster's and do the best with the EN's.

Still, it looks my LB$ is going be bankrupt for some time.

Perhaps a useful question to explore: why the stubborness? She might be afraid you will dump her if you knew the truth. She may be unwilling to face it herself.

(An irritating factor in WSs: they want to control your options, while keeping theirs open.)

Jen -

I read your replies and I think I understand not knowing why you are in the affair.

weakness sounded true, but a lot of it could be excitement.

i dont think anyone on this can honestly say that they are going to committ to "marriage", they maybe have to committ to a new self and a good relationship with someone for their lives. "mariage" just seems like shackles the way everyone talks about it.

Strikes me that marriage in our society doesnt make sense when we are meeting so many people and life is so fast. i dont know if i buy all this commit to marriage never see a man in a car or eat alone stuff. it seems absurd. i am eager for any advice of how to live a normal life and be faithful.

-anyone can also reply to my post - jeez

-jeez

See my post under "To all snoopers."

Ooops wrong thread.

Here is the correct one.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=003729;p=1#000006

Uhmmm, not sure about those last 3 replies...

...but in reply to A.M. Martin,

Part of her stuborness comes from her personality, however the other points you mentioned may also be a factor. An added element may be a reluctance to hurt me further... I was very upset early on in the game, even before I knew the complete extant of what had been going on. I'm against a brick wall that doesn't seem to want to crumble any time soon.

Affairs are born from dishonesty (without it, they can't exist) and one way to eliminate dishonesty is for you (and her) to open up to each other. But you must first create an emotionally safe environment where your W can tell you what her innermost thoughts and feelings are, no matter how unpleasant they are for you without the fear of being punished by you for doing so. But you won't achieve this if you are resorting to love busters (habits that destroy romantic love: angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, annoying habits, independent behavior and dishonesty) for they are the emotional toxic waste that will kill her love for you. Start by developing empathy for her, and validating her feelings (not the same as condoning the affair) so that she will start taking steps to share more and more of them with you, and will make it a lot easier for her to break contact with the OM for good.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks TMCM,

What you say makes a lot of sense, however in my case we've always been relatively calm with each other (our arguments have never been propped up with shouting, anger etc). My reaction to all of this has been deep sadness and pain, I haven't had any time to feel mad about it. Just the same, sadness can still cause the things you mentioned.

A large part of this problem has to do with my wife's personality. She never has been one to easily open up and talk about her feelings, and prodding her to do so is a major LB for her. The best I can do is take the rest of your advice and let her get it out on her own time.

Once again, thank you for your wisdom.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"My reaction to all of this has been deep sadness and pain, I haven't had any time to feel mad about it. Just the same, sadness can still cause the things you mentioned."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your expression of sadness MAY be the reason why she doesn't want to be open and honest about her affair. She realizes that you would be devastated if she were to tell you the whole truth. What you need to do is express to her composure, strength, calmness, and warmth so that she can see that you are NOT a delicate flower that is going to shrivel up and die if she tells you the WHOLE truth about her affair. Express to her that for you the dishonesty and lying about the affair is far, far more damaging to you than the affair itself. And end it by conveying to her that you are NOT going to pressure her furthermore on the issue of the affair, and leave her alone with her thoughts. Hopefully, your words will make her think of the wisdom behind them, and decide to finally come clean with the whole truth.

I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head there, and jives strongly with some advice I received from someone else. I tried to convey to her that the lies were what hurt the most in this whole thing, and in each case when some truth was revealed it made things easier to deal with. I can only give this process further time to work out.

I forgot to tell you that if you follow the advice I gave to you in my last post, you would also be helping her tremendously because there are few things worse than keeping a terrible secret to yourself. The corrosive nature of that guarded secret starts to negatively affect its keeper emotionally, mentally and physically. If she decides to come clean with the whole truth, I can almost guarantee you that she is going to feel much, much better, especially if she realizes that your love for her has not been diminished.