Ok here goes first post so bear with me. Sorry for the length. Wife of 11 years has been having an affair with a co-worker for about a year now. This man is also a friend of mine for 20+ years and is a proven "DOG". After some flat out accusations and snooping from me she has "Come Clean" with me that she was in fact "looking outside of the marriage for emotional support" and she does not feel that she loves me anymore and "does not know what she wants" When she told him that she had came clean to me he dumped her and told her that he doesn't love her and that he never loved her and in fact does not know what love is and is staying with his wife because of his kids. Even though he had told her that he loved her and was thinking about leaving his wife for her. She has seen him a couple of times but not spoken to him since then. This sent her into a depression that resulted in a 2 week intensive program for suicide prevention and lots of anti depressants. They no longer work in the same office and he has told her not to even speak to him. She feels (I think) that the only reason for his sudden change in attitude is that he is fearfull of loosing his children and he is fearfull of me. I believe that she has convinced herself that he loves her and would be with her say for the reasons I mentioned. I also believe that she still loves him and she has said to both friends and family "How could I love my husband if i did this to him" She has gone to her mothers house to sort things and maintains that she does not know what she wants to do yet. She has taken off her wedding ring and tells me that she has not made up her mind about us yet and that if I push her for an answer she will answer me that she doesnt want to work it out. But would rather have more time to think it over. Shes been out for 1 Month. I have taken off my ring out of some sense of pride. We have kids so we talk almost every day about them and I have had in depth conversations with her about her feelings toward him. She says she is just not happy w/o him and is not ready to talk about us to anyone yet. How long should I expect to wait, how should I be acting towards her and should I tell his wife of their affair <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .

Dear Devoted Dad:

I am so sorry to hear about your situation.

Have you done any reading in the basic concept section? You should do that right away.

Another thing you can do is buy or borrow "Surviving an Affair" by W. Harley or "Torn Asunder" by Dave Carder. These are excellent books that will help you to deal with what you are going through.

IMHO, I think you should put your ring back on. You are still married and should think and act like a married man.

Your wife is acting like a "normal" wayward wife (WW) in the "fog" as we say around here. She may look like your wife but doesn't act like your wife.

There will be plenty of people here to help you out. I saw that Mortarman just posted and he would be excellent at giving you advice since he went through a separation and his wife came back.

There are many great people on here who will help you, share their stories with you and hold your hand when you get down.

Keep posting and read!!!
DB

Ooppsss again - double post!

<small>[ November 05, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: dazed blonde ]</small>

Ooppsss!!!
Sorry about the "do I tell his wife" part.

You'll hear two camps on that one - and I'm on the side for telling her.

However, you must understand YOUR motives for telling and figure out the best way to tell.

Revenge is not the best motivation. Care and concern for her personal well being IS the best motivation. An important fact in HER life is being kept from HER and she has every right to know about it. What she does with this information and whether she chooses to believe it or not, is her business.

Look at it like this: you went and had some medical tests done and the doctor found out you had a serious disease and could die soon but didn't want to tell you about it. If you had known about your disease you could read up on it, find treatments or cures, or choose to live the last of your days in a different manner.

The same goes for the OMW. She has a disease in her M and no one has told her. She needs to be well informed so that she can make decisions about her life.

Now, who to tell her is another matter. You can do it in person or write her a letter. You can talk to the OM and tell him that HE should be the one to tell her and if he doesn't you will. You could also approach a friend of hers, if you know any, and let them tell her.

But, again, IMVHO, she deserves to know.
DB

Thanx for the quick reply. I respect your VHO and will give serious thought to putting my ring back on. I never really wanted to take it off but kind of feel stupid wearing it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> . I plan on having a woman friend of mine call the OMW (hope i get the acronyms right) and telling her that she needs to know something and she should call me if she wants to hear it. That way if she chooses not to its on her. Shell probably find out any way after I beat the crap out of her husband <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> . heheheh I ordered the "Surviving an affair" book moments ago. Again thanx

DD:
I sent out an SOS to Mortarman for you. Also, read the threads by Mortarman and Want my Wife Back - his are down just a bit on this page. You might have to do a "search" for Mortarman's threads.

There's a Plan B support thread here somewhere too. Plan B is kind of what you are in against your will.

DB

Devoted Dad: Good name, I like it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Every man should aspire to be one. Put your wedding band back on. With it off it tells her you have given up on M and makes it easy for her to leave. Second, tell your "friends" W, she deserves to know. Just remember to check your motives like DD said. Read everything you can on PlA and PlB, EN's and LB's. Finally, hang out here until some of the GWO's get to your thread. Don't get impatient, it takes awhile sometimes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . GWO's would be the Great Wise One's, ie...TMCM, redhat, orchid..etc....too many for me to get them all. They are all very familiar with the Harley's concepts and can help you better than most of us. Remember though, we are ALL amatuers here, and the advice is free. Getting a pro never hurts (as long as he/she is pro-marriage). Good luck and keep posting.

MTD

Devoted Dad,

DB has gotten you on a great start. I am sorry to hear you are in this, but you must understand two things. Number one...you and your wife are NOT unique. And number two, you are not alone...she is.

You are not unique because both of you are following right in the WS and BS scripts. Almost always, 90% of these scripts are followed.

You are not alone because unlike your wife, you have a support group here that KNOWS...and you will have a plan to get this all fixed. She has no plan at all.

I want to take on your initial post in order to get things in persepctive.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After some flat out accusations and snooping from me she has "Come Clean" with me that she was in fact "looking outside of the marriage for emotional support" and she does not feel that she loves me anymore and "does not know what she wants"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, so she is being truthful now. A very good start. She doesnt know what she is doing. The fog will do that. Keep your head on (we will show you how). She will have no rational reasoning processes for some time to come.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When she told him that she had came clean to me he dumped her and told her that he doesn't love her and that he never loved her and in fact does not know what love is and is staying with his wife because of his kids.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She will have to face it eventually...she was a sex toy for him. He may have acted like a friend, but he was getting something out of it. Now that the bloom is off the rose, he wants nothing to do with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even though he had told her that he loved her and was thinking about leaving his wife for her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Typical affair lies. Affairs are FULL of lies and deceit...especially between the WSs and OPs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has seen him a couple of times but not spoken to him since then. This sent her into a depression that resulted in a 2 week intensive program for suicide prevention and lots of anti depressants. They no longer work in the same office and he has told her not to even speak to him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is good. No contact (NC) has been initiated. Sure she didnt do it of her own volition...but who cares? The only way you even have a chance is after she gets thru NC and withdrawal. So, the OM is doing you a favor.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She feels (I think) that the only reason for his sudden change in attitude is that he is fearful of loosing his children and he is fearful of me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe she's right...maybe not. Doesnt matter...he dumped her. He did you a great favor. So, what she thinks right now is not important. Remember, thru this whole process, understand she is in an addiction. She cannot think rationally. So believe half of what you see, and about a quarter of what you hear. She may sound like she means it...but she doesnt know what she means.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe that she has convinced herself that he loves her and would be with her say for the reasons I mentioned.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So? Like I said, it doesnt matter what she thinks right now...she is in her addiction to him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also believe that she still loves him</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">True statement. She probably still does love him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and she has said to both friends and family "How could I love my husband if i did this to him"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This question will come up to her again. Leave it for now. She has to deal with her feelings for him first.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has gone to her mothers house to sort things and maintains that she does not know what she wants to do yet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good. A good place to be. And she is correct, she doesnt know. But now is the time that she needs counseling. I would send her a copy of Surviving an Affair while you are ordering your own. Also, if you can talk her into phone counseling on this site with Steve Harley or Jennifer Chalmers, I HIGHLY recommend it!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has taken off her wedding ring and tells me that she has not made up her mind about us yet and that if I push her for an answer she will answer me that she doesnt want to work it out.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All true.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But would rather have more time to think it over. Shes been out for 1 Month.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This will take some time. She didnt get into this mess overnight. You said the A was over a year. gonna take a lot to get that out of her system. Steady as she goes for you, as Just Learning would say.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have taken off my ring out of some sense of pride.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Put it back on. You are a married man...act like it. Your kids need you to be the strong one, the consistent one. YOU hold that family together, you hear? And, more importantly, your WIFE needs you to be consistent, to hold things together. When her head comes out of her buttocks, she will need to know that you held onto the family, the principles, the basis of your union. Do not give into what she is doing. One of you has to be the adult right now. Forget pride. I thought I was losing all pride when I went thru this. Now, I hear from so many around us that they are amazed at my strength. Stop being prideful...be strong & be right!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We have kids so we talk almost every day about them</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are they staying with you? Are you still in the family home? What state do you live in?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and I have had in depth conversations with her about her feelings toward him. She says she is just not happy w/o him and is not ready to talk about us to anyone yet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She isnt happy without him. She is an addict. believe this, my man. She is telling you the truth. But guess what? she is finding out what 97% of all people who get caught in affairs find out...it wont work out. But she has to go thru the process...you cannot get involved.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How long should I expect to wait,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who knows. The Harleys have some guidelines on here and in their book. But each situation is a little different. My wife was in the affair for 7 months while I was deployed with the Army. Then, when D-Day came after my return, she moved out 5 months later. The affair ended 5 months after that, we sought counseling for two months...and then she came home. All in all, it took about 18 months. But your mileage may vary.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">how should I be acting towards her</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Depends on what plan you are in. I would suggest a 6 week Plan A, followed immediately by a Plan B. I say Plan A right now because SUPPOSEDLY he has dumped her. So she is SUPPOSEDLY alone. Now is the time to show her the changes, and all the good things about you. No love busters. Read up on Plan A and get busy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and should I tell his wife of their affair.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">99.99% of the time I would say "tell the wife." But, your situation is making me thing differently right now. Why? Because SUPPOSEDLY, the affair is over. And right now, your wife is hungering for him to come back. What if you called his wife, and then she kicked him out on his sorry butt? Where do you think he will go? Right to your wife. His little butt will stay right where it is at if he is scared of you telling his wife, or scared of her leaving him and taking his kids. Keep that ammo. Dont fire the shot right now. You may think it is worse for the OM to get hit like that...but I think the sleepless nights worrying are far worse.

Besides, you can ALWAYS tell the OM's wife later. If your wife comes back, one ofthe conditions of that would be the NC letter to the OM...and her letting his wife know. If you tell his wife right now, your wife, who is in NC right now, will be pissed...and will seek him out.

Right now, Plan A for you. If the affair has ended like you said, then the idea right now is to show strength...to show love...and to show your wife the way home. Let that ride for a little while. It may take some time for her to get it thru the fog. She may even get back into the affair with the OM. And then you might have to go to Plan B.

But a successful Plan B has to have a successful Plan A before it.

So, read up on here. Read my threads over the last year and a half (they started in June 2002). Read others on here also. Read "Torn Assunder" by Carder also.

Get busy man. Your wife has made a mess. You will have to be the adult here. No love busters (read up on them). Get her into counseling, MB style. Get her the books from here so she understands what is going on.

Keep posting here so we can help you. You are not alone. And if you are a Christian, your first response should be to turn to Christ. Pray for your wife and your kids. Play for his guidance and strength. I will pray for your family.

In His arms.

Wow you really now how to hit home quickly MM. It looks like I stumbled onto a nice group of people here! OK i'm pulling my head from my backside and guess i'll go with the flow and put my ring back on. It never left my person anyway. The kids are doing pretty well for now. Son is 4 and just now starting to ask why mommy is sleeping at grammys. Stepdaughter is 17 (with me since she was 3) is staying a couple nites here then a couple nites with her and then to her dads in New Hampshire. He spends equal time between us and we have both agreed that we will not restrict the other in any way from seeing or talking to the kids. We have also promised each other that no matter what happens we will remain friends.

As far as my interaction with her I have told her that I will continue to pay for the kids needs and have given my word that I will continue to make her car payments for her. I don't call her to see if she is OK and try to limit our talking to the kids and other logistics. Should I be telling her I love her and wish to work things out or should I be indifferent when dealing with her? I read a little on Plan A but it appears to be based on a continuing affair. That is not the case here and she tells me that while she does feel she can't be happy w/o him she knows that they can never be together. Still not sure about telling the OMW or not. Still working on the acronyms! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

What I meant about Plan A was trying to fulfill her needs and not LBing. So, I love you's are appropriate, as long as not carried to excess.

It is good that you backed away, and are continuing to show her love and support. Hang onto that. When you go to Plan B (if you go), the rug will be pulled out from under her. For now, she needs to know you are there.

So, read up and develop your Plan A. There are some Plan A experts on here who will come along. I seem to be one of the gurus of Plan B. But, I do know right now you have to show her what can be. Get Surviving An Affair (SAA) for her also. She needs to get educated. She is lost and scared. She needs a map out of the fog. Give it to her.

In His arms.

Hello DD. I want to encourage you from experience that even though the affair may be over, you should read and practice as good a plan A right now as you can. Your WW is still very attached to the OM and how you handle things right now is very important.

It may not seem for a long time that what you are doing is making a difference, but it WILL if you do it the right way! I did this with my WW while her A was still going on and was constantly blown off by her. It didn't seem like all the humiliation and hurt I was going through was making any difference at all. But once her A ended and she got over the OM she literally came begging to me for another chance. And it was mostly because of the way I cared for her during my plan A.

I am glad to hear that you are putting your W ring back on. It is very important to show your WW that you are committed to your M with her and to show confidence that things will work out when she is ready to come back to you. Good luck!

Workin on the Plan A gameplan and am thinking about sending an Email or letter to her expressing my feelings. Not sure on content but will say the basic I want to work it out, still love you and suggest Pro help and leave the door open without pressuring her to make up her mind asap. She gets all anxious when we talk about us in person but when I sent her an email B4 to clear up a conversation we had she said it was "nice". Then I'll wing it from there I guess. Have to be carefull not to come on too strong!

Yes, you must be careful not to come on too strong. That's why I'd suggest waiting until maybe later next week.

How about you calling the Harley's yourself and getting their input? I hear they are wonderful.....


Good luck, keep posting,
DB

Devoted Dad, I think you've gotten some great advice here. I would only add that it's important to take care of yourself during this incredibly stressful time. By now I suspect you have a sense that you're going to be in this stress for a long while. You're right. I would suggest that you plan for a two-year stint of awfulness.

Which means that each day, you're going to need to: Sleep, eat, rest, and re-energize.

There are lots of ways to get that done, and it's perhaps silly to focus on it so heavily. Still, too many people end up not sleeping for five months, losing 50 pounds, and then wondering why they're unable to function on anything like a coherent level.

Plan for that part now.

- Make sure you've seen your doctor for a full checkup.
- If you're unable to control your emotions, ask him or her for an appropriate anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medication.
- If you're unable to sleep, ask for a sleeping aid.
- Make sure that you've got things in the house that you can eat even when you're nauseous. MetRx protein shakes made with milk and a frozen banana are easy on the stomach, tasty, and highly nutritious.
- Make sure that you have a daily routine for meditation, prayer, and/or contemplation. Use this time for the sole purpose of finding peace.
- Make sure that you get exercise.

If you are maintaining a house on your own for the first time, check out flylady.net. You've got a lot of work to do to keep you and your kids going. Get some help from a hilarious and uplifting pro.

For that matter, here's a laugh for everyone who's playing along from home:

http://www.flylady.net/pages/HolidayCruising5.asp

Please be prepared to laugh out loud, no matter HOW bad your day is.

Was planning on waiting a while on the email until she showed up at the door last night. She is taking my D(17) to dance at disney world this weekend and she needed to get the suitcases and some of her things. Not sure if it was the right thing but I gave her, as well as my D, some cash to take with her.

Can financial support be considered an EN that should be met whil in plan A?

She was telling me that she had a bad weekend and " Took 2 steps back" also said she was mad at herself for "falling for someone like him" and was trying to fiqure out how someone could say the things he said & make the promises he made to her then just dump her when he was done. I had no comment naturally.

We also talked a little about the our marriage. I sad to her that I stilled loved her and wanted to work it out and said I realized that she didnt love me but still felt that we should try to save our marriage. She kind of shocked me by saying that "Its not that we don't love each other but ..." then she said she couldn't talk about it yet. I helped her carry the stuff to the car gave her a hug and the first kiss in a month and sent her on her way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Not sure what the heck it all meant...