I'm looking for opinions, and information, pertaining to the oldest in each others family, being married.

Can two alpha dogs be compatible?

My wife says it can't be done, although i don't know anything about this, i have no clue either way.

Thank you.

I didn't realize I was an "alpha dog". My H is too. We are still married.....a few problems along the way but we are happily, wonderfully, recovering each other as best friends now.

Tell that to your wife!!!
DB

I think I need to tewll this to this marriage counselor as well.

She agreed with my stbxw. Adding something along the way it can't be done, makes things to difficult.

anyhow, thank you.

double... sorry

<small>[ November 06, 2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: Drucilla ]</small>

Hi Stephen,

I think personality TYPES have more to do with compatibility than birth order (although the Birth Order people are adamant, otherwise). I'm sure your MC's has studied Myers-Briggs Type Indicator. A couple of SJ's, or a SJ and an NT could be like oil & water, no matter the birth order.

Now exH, my current H & I are all 1st born. ExH was an SJ, with high need for order, stability and routine. I'm NT, with high need NOT to do something that is illogical JUST because it is 'the norm' or is expected. He fought me to the end, and I left him. If he was looking for a wallflower to go along with anything he said, he absolutely picked the wrong TYPE.

Current H is an SP, a type that has little NEED to control others. I can relax with him, he doesnt put me on the defensive. He's not a doormat, but he's not threatened by me, either. ExH admitted at the end that he was.

I see that now, that I've been reading alot on personality types. I think birth order is not as significant. Good luck - Dru

Stephan,

Since I know more about dogs than I do about people, I'll give you the answer from a dog/wolf point of view.

In a wolf pack, it takes two alphas to lead the pack. They work as a team to ensure the safety and well being of those they're responsible for. They are responsible, smart, dedicated, and protective. They will fight all comers to ensure stability. They bond very strongly.

However, I've observed another trait in dogs as well as in people. Often, there are "wannabe" alphas who are more interested in being in charge than in the welfare of others. This is selfish and could lead to a lot of bickering. They're more interested in promoting their own agenda than in working as a team.

So I guess it depends on if the people are true alphas or just wannabes. The two of you would have to look deeply into your motives to discover that.

Of course, my personal recommendation is to get two alphas neutered to reduce aggression, but I don't think that's an option here.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Dobie

Stephan,

What dogs got to do with love <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ?. Even if dogs can't be together ... we are human !. We have understanding & willing and WE CAN LIVE TOGETHER & HAPPY !.

Send both your stbxW & your conselor to the fog land. M is about work and commitment ... M is about equal partnership ... not one dominating the other in order to work !. M is not 50-50 ... M is 100-100 ... each giving their best regardless SO does or doesn't.

-rh-

redhat,

I have an appointment, alone w/o stbxw on Monday with this counselor.
I plan on printing some info from here, and than presenting it to her.

So far, i'm not impressed with her at all.

The first few things i said to her in my initial phone call was, "its never too late," and "we can never divorce 100% so it'd make sense to work things out, and recover our marriage." She agreed, but since then, its been pretty much the opposite.

Thats a fact, relationships require 100% to 100%!!!
As i'm making sure to give it my 100% before i to decide to give inot this thing called divorce.

Redhat, do you remember the PPO? Its still in affect.

Thanks all,,,
stephan


still STANDING in Michigan!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stephan:
<strong>Redhat, do you remember the PPO? Its still in affect.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I remember you well. I could not distinguish who are insane in this mess, you or your WW. However you need to do what you could live with for the rest of your life.

I would print the Harley's pages about surviving A ... . Give it to the conselor & your W and f@ck about the dog concept (pardon my french).

Care to update me on your situation ?.

-rh-

Redhat,

Sure i can update ya,, i still stand for the healing of my marriage. I'm not divorced yet, and she's not remarried yet. At times i'm convinced i must be the insane one. It sure would be easier to just walk away, but she is the mother of my children.

Our daughter, who was diagnosed with the brain tumor three years ago, became quite sick in Sept. SO W was here often, and back and forth to the hospitals with us.

A few weeks after this, W agreed to talk to a MC. As long as I sat everything up, which i did.

I was in the process of having this bogus PPO terminated. I eventually phoned W informing her she was about to be served, and asked her to disregard this. Days later she phoned me back, saying she would be nice and drop it, and asked when would i be nice. She still wants me to agree to joint custody. She no lomger lives in this school district. This PPO has been nothing but broke, yet i'm the only one who "could" pay the price. Yet, at the same time i'm very confused,,

During our last session, the MC commented how i seem to become defensive rather easy, so i informed her of a few things i've been accused of. I began discussing when i started being accused of flirting,,, i informed my W when she started this, eventually i asked those i was involved with, as well as others outside of the general area, if i was leaving this impression. (at this time i was a manager where i worked) not one person was left with this impression i was flirting with them, and nobody seen me as a flirt. When W started this, i accepted this because it came from her as my wife, if she "felt" that way,,, i wasn't going to argue with her. Both ladies, W and MC, expressed how wrong I was for doing that. Well, i stood my ground. Being in the position i was in, that would have jeapordized my position, as in fired. I also added that i never mentioned anything about my W saying, or thinking that. Then they both had a different attitude.

I know my W has been here to MB, so i only hope for the best, for her, and more importantly, for our childrens well being.

For now, i "feel" that all i can say, talking to the MC is the first step, and hopefully in the right direction. Regardless where our marriage may end up. I know its careful time!?,,,

I have an appointment,,

As i'm left with some serious concerns,,,
the fact that she's the mother to my children, actually has more meaning than staying married.
Does this make sense??

I promised on our wedding date, so therefor,
yeppers, I'm still STANDING! in Michigan
www.rejoiceministries.org

She choose to divorce, i choose to STAND.

<small>[ November 09, 2003, 02:12 AM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

Stephan,

Thanks for the update. You disappeared from plan A/B to post at other booard. I only stay put in several boards.

I am glad you are stronger and doing what is right for you to heal yourself w/ or w/o your WW. Yes, Dv is sin and selfish and God hates it. However sometime we can't do nothing about it but do the best we can.

I would not bargain with her about the kids ... if she want to come home it has to be for the right reason. Wanting a better M w/ you and you kids. She might just want to hang on whatever she could. She knew she did wrong but until she recognize it and doing something about it ... there is no MC or person could do it but herself.

It is very hard to stand ground and take those beating. I had been there. Our MC was SH !, after 3-4 sessions she didn't get what she wanted (to teach me) she dropped out from it and filed.

Is OM out of the pictures already ?. Is your Dv final ? you know that if the decree has been set, it just a matter of time before you receive your "offical" letter of the judgement. However God still want us to reconsile even after Dv as long as eiter party aren't remaried to someone else. I saw Dv care video about this issue, the pastor said that we have the right to Dv but we have the obligation as a Christian to be God's like. The obligation has to be put first before our right !. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . It would be test of faith.

You are doing good, hang in there.

-rh-

stronger? I hope so, but quite often i don't feel like it. Especially when either of the two children start expresing their feelings/thoughts.
And even thru these silly stupid things through-out a day that for some reason makes me think abiout her/us. Can you understand what i mean?

Using the children,, i will a;ways refuse to allow them to be used!
When the FOC granted me full custody, W filed to protest, but then she canceled the court date. Eventually i was told how much i was hated, especially for taking her children away from her.
We spoke of this PPO one day, as i was informed how i broke/break it.Yes, i agree i have and i do. Yet, so has she but she can't see that. See comes into "our" my home (whatever) and will hang out. Times i've felt like either a criminal or something in my own home!? She will call/email, yet she says she doesn't break it!? To be honest, i could really care less if she has, or will. One thing that leaves me feeling confused, "if" she wanted the children so bad, she had several chances to have me arrested, for communicating with her. She refuses/refused extra time with children, often she tells me to have them call her,, when daughter was quite sick, i called W shared what 5 YD was saying/crying. W said, have her call me. I may have been wrong, but i didn't have D call her, finally W came around. It may have been cuz of the hospital needs,, but??

I'm still informed how wrong "I'am" for using the children for my personal needs. When D was sick, i was "told" i should feel bad, and i should feel guilty! ?? Quilty for taking them away from her.

W has been in the area several times, not once does she even stop to visit them, and to date, she still will not even ca,, them. I've made it clear that i will not even answer the phone,,,
IMO, things don't quite add up??

Divorce, i'm not sure whats even going on,,i've asked her several times, all i get is "I don't feel this is the time or place,,," I've calle dthe courts and there is nothing pending on the case?? Its now been 8 months. Not that i'm looking forward to this.

Recently while we were emailing, i shared some of what i have gave to her/us/marriage. This to was all twisted to how/what she needed and wanted it to be, the next thing i knew, i was now saying how terrible of a wife/mother she was. Its really so confusing, this happens with everything, and all the time!

In the last session with this wonderful MC, W said how she was just like (name) and this is a fact! This (name) is required to take some kind of meds on a daily basis, for whatever their diagnosis are. I have an appointment with MC alone, in hopes that we can go further with this. MC agreed to an alone session, only *if* i told my W, at a later time. ????

I'm really not sure eiother way about OM(s) The guy that was like the escape guy, he's out. When i finally asked W about this, she stated all she done was to be his dog sitter?? And that nothing more ever happened. She added that he was a drunk, and she almost served a PPO on him.
I do know that he was running around telling everybody he loved (name)! Which i asked W about, her only comment was that he was sick. Thats the same thing i've been accused of,,,being sick! plus alot! more!

Whenh her children told my oldest how tthey had seen W hug/kiss this OM #2, then our 5 YD started telling me she to haad seen this. One day W, asked daughter about this, W told d she was lieing, I also asked, W's reply was , "I need a guy in my life, like i need a hole in my head." I asked the second time, "WHy would I? Besides, i have a dog and a computer." Two weeks later W advised me she told this ON#2 to stay away. OM#2 is the father to her first son. Our 5 YD days later asked me why her mommy did that to her,, meaning lied, and accused her of lieing.

I don't know either way about any OM. As i "feel" there's little truth coming from this lady, the lady i used to know as my W. Now she's somebody else!?

Either this lady is very smart at playing these game, afterall, or "something isn't right."
There are other details/issues that i won't discuss,, but something isn't right.

Still to this day, each and everything is/has been all, and only my fault. The world knows better, don't they? Recently i was reading about this sort of thing,,, but i can't find this site again!

I know i "allow" myself to what I do,,,
(meaning) before our last MC visit, i came to the conclusion i was going to finally speak up and out! and than walk out of the office. Two days before the ap[pointment W was here. She had poured on her sweet little soft innocent self, i allowed myself to be "suckered" right back in!
It was as though she had suspected something, anyhow, i changed my mind!?

I don't understand how i'm so hated, but yet at the same time i can be treated/acted as though i'm a friend, or even just a person, a person that does have emotions.

After the MC's visit, for an hour we were in the parking lot, talking about her future plans/goals. I was asked if/how i could handle certain things, IF we were to remain married,,,
What will/has happened, within two weeks she will say how things were never said!!??

I have my moments of "feeling" stronger, but overall, i maybe i learned how to put up a front. As in a hardened heart!?

For now i still need to
STAND for the healing of my marriage!

God tells us that its His hearts desire that all marriages shall reconcile, "that none shall parish!" That is His word,,

Let me send some 2x4 to you ... you are reacting to WS and this is not good. You sometime put yourself into the situation ... what do you expect ? Insanity is doing the samething over and over but expecting different result.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stephan:
<strong> stronger? I hope so, but quite often i don't feel like it. Especially when either of the two children start expresing their feelings/thoughts.
And even thru these silly stupid things through-out a day that for some reason makes me think abiout her/us. Can you understand what i mean?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I know. But you have to be able to detach your self and be the head of the household. It is good for your kids to open up ... show them and share with them the situation. They need to know that their parent love them ... except that mom is not capable to give it right now and bring back the good time that they have with mom.

You don't need to answer to no one but to HIM. I was alone too ... but when the A is exposed, no one on her side. She taked trash about me but I know who I am ... I could see it every morning in the mirror and I am at peace with him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>W has been in the area several times, not once does she even stop to visit them, and to date, she still will not even ca,, them. I've made it clear that i will not even answer the phone,,,
IMO, things don't quite add up??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thsi is 2x4 ... you either hide behind PPO or ignore it together ... not using it when it is convinient to you. Since you ignored PPO, you should take her call. How she could drop by if you won't talk to her ???.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Divorce, i'm not sure whats even going on,,i've asked her several times, all i get is "I don't feel this is the time or place,,," I've calle dthe courts and there is nothing pending on the case?? Its now been 8 months. Not that i'm looking forward to this.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my county, I could walk up to the court house'record dept., look it up my self. I could get anyone's Dv records ... it is public record.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Recently while we were emailing, i shared some of what i have gave to her/us/marriage. This to was all twisted to how/what she needed and wanted it to be, the next thing i knew, i was now saying how terrible of a wife/mother she was. Its really so confusing, this happens with everything, and all the time!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is 1,000,000 miles away and apart from all of this. You should not enagage her and go to plan B from the get go. This is the insane part, you know you are talking to her fog and you try to make sense out of it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>In the last session with this wonderful MC, W said how she was just like (name) and this is a fact! This (name) is required to take some kind of meds on a daily basis, for whatever their diagnosis are. I have an appointment with MC alone, in hopes that we can go further with this. MC agreed to an alone session, only *if* i told my W, at a later time. ????</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you should tell your W about the meeting. However MC can't tell what you told MC.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I'm really not sure eiother way about OM(s) The guy that was like the escape guy, he's out. When i finally asked W about this, she stated all she done was to be his dog sitter?? And that nothing more ever happened. She added that he was a drunk, and she almost served a PPO on him.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't beleive what WS told you and beleive on half what you see with your own 2 eyes. The truth will come out, it is a matter of time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Our 5 YD days later asked me why her mommy did that to her,, meaning lied, and accused her of lieing.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is hard but we, men, is the head of household we have to treat our own like Christ would. Never bad mouth her mom and don't down play it either ... help her to accept thing the way she is and know that you would not do that to her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>It was as though she had suspected something, anyhow, i changed my mind!? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have to plan B from th get go ... but we are here to support you on whatever road you think is best for you. Remember, we just like a consultant ... have no interest on you but your well being and you are the one that have to live in it.

I don't understand how i'm so hated, but yet at the same time i can be treated/acted as though i'm a friend, or even just a person, a person that does have emotions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>For now i still need to
STAND for the healing of my marriage!

God tells us that its His hearts desire that all marriages shall reconcile, "that none shall parish!" That is His word,, </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, unless she or you is remarried to someone else. Dv is the end of M but for christian is not.

I still beleive that you should plan B ... you are not talking to her, the woman that you loved and married, but to her selfishness. You are not weak but you loved her too much ... you need to protect yourself from her.

-rh-

You're correct, I do need the 2 x 4's, and a lot of them!

Every time that i'd stop contacting her, she'd realize this, and would ask,, than i'd allow myself to jump right back in.

I think i may not have been very clear,,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've made it clear that i will not even answer the phone</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WHat i meant was i would have one of our children answer,, and not myself.
With the PPO, i will agree i actually ignored only the comm8unication aspect of things. I don't think there's been a day where i've hid behind it ??

When i phoned W informing her of the first MC appointment, eventually she said "its over, i'm done." I simply said ok, i'll waste none of your time, I'll call her back and cancel. W then said no, I'll go after all i promised. so,,

Regarding the children, for awhile i would discuss issues to and with W, every time i'd actually hear how i should do this, or that. That i should only listen to them, now i really don't discuss anything, or share much, with her. When we're about to hang up, she'll say, "you can have the kids call me."

With the counselor situation,, she has already told W some things i've said,,?? I was actually some what set back, as i didn't expect that.
I've always been open to W, therefor it really didn't matter the MC did this,,, but had i known, i probably would not have said anything to MC.

In your opinion, should these MC sessions stop then? and go, and "stay" in plan B?
What i really wanted to do last week, start the MC session with me stating some facts to MC and W, and then simply getting up, and walking out, and away.

Thank you,

<small>[ November 09, 2003, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stephan:
<strong> In your opinion, should these MC sessions stop then? and go, and "stay" in plan B?
What i really wanted to do last week, start the MC session with me stating some facts to MC and W, and then simply getting up, and walking out, and away.

Thank you, </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, if you want plan A .. do it w/ your guts. If you do plan B you do it w/ your head. Since you put yourself in this situation, I would not dismiss the MC yet. It is very good to talk to your MC alone. Let her hear all of your side and then ask her to talk to your WW alone too. Then see her and ask her "what is her plan for your M ? & What could she do for your M ?.".

IMVHO. You are walking into the lion's dens ... you are walking into your WW's trap. She played you and she want to say that she tries her best <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ... you know she is 1,000,000 miles away. Pray to the Lord to give you wisdom and courage and ask HIM to use the MC too. I want to tell you to do plan B but plan B is futile right now. I know you have faith, you should ask HIM. (Jeremiah 17:7)

You should not walk away ... you have to see your WW, let her LB'ed to death for you to get away from her. Otherwise you will never have closure. I know this is not MB material and TMCM could 2x4 me. You are only human and give it all and close this chapter either way. Your kids need you and you need to help yourself. (Psalm 23).

Put your faith in HIM. Get info about your Dv from the court house. Find out about your MC if she is pro marriage. Be smart and play along. You should be righteous but should not be hard headed.

Keep updating us. -rh-

<small>[ November 12, 2003, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>