In less Im in another form of denial, Ive actually have been doing pretty good not speaking with the WH (it has been 9 days since I called his W and 2 weeks with NC). HOWEVER, there is still a part of me that wants to confront him desperately-he deserves to atleast face me after all the lies, dont you think? Another part says he isnt worth the energy of dialing the phone!
Thoughts???

Just one thought Miss Lily:

DON'T DO IT, DON'T DO IT, DON'T DO IT!!!!

Oh, maybe that's 3 thoughts!!!!

Look, you've done great all week, right? Why blow it now??????

Have a hot fudge sundae instead - just as bad for you as OM but will get you into far less trouble!

(((((((Hugs)))))))
DB

MissLilly, you are going through another stage of withdrawl. If you give in to your pride...the need to confront him and prove him wrong and a pig...you will not only start withdrawl all over again...it will be 10X worse. You'll regret it to a degree I can't even explain. It's more painful each time. That's why people who don't remain faithfully in NC wind up right back in the mess they so desperately wanted to get out of. He was a jerk...you know this...and telling him serves no purpose. Write him a letter and DO NOT send it. That often helps people to get it out, get it said and move on.

Good luck! I'm rooting for you!!!

Okay Miss Lily:
The best revenge is living well.

Go live well - without him - and that will be the best possible revenge you can seek.

And in the meantime, believe me, he's squirming wondering when you are going to contact him. So let him squirm some!!!!

Again - DON'T DO IT!!
DB

MissLilly -

The thing about a pig is, if you wrestle him, you get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

Don't bother getting down in the mud with him. It won't actually help what you're going through.

My guess is that you're having these awful arguments with him in your head, yelling all the things that you want to say to make him realize how badly he's hurt you.

And you want that to make you feel better.

It makes perfectly good sense. The trouble is, it doesn't work!

No matter how much you want it to, doing it will only make YOU feel worse and start the cycle all over again.

I wrestled with this very thing for a long time. What finally helped me was to do several cleansing rituals within my cobbled-together religion of choice.

If you're religious, I'd suggest that you find out what the rituals for cleansing are within it. In effect, what you're trying to do is to exorcise the demons you're carrying around IN YOUR OWN HEAD.

Once you get those voices to quiet down, then the OM will no longer haunt you.

Weird words to use, I'm sure, and I don't mean them in any supernatural way in the slightest. These are REAL demons and a REAL haunting, of REAL experiences and hurts that you have.

They're all still going on in the confines of you, though, and that's where your focus needs to be if you want to get through them and towards something else.

Hi MissLilly

I agree with the others, don't call.

The only one that will hurt or feel pain will be you. There is nothing you can say or do that will make the MM feel or do anything.

The worst thing that could happen is that he pulls you under again. Aviod that trap.

If you need to talk, call a friend someone that really cares for you. Go out and have a nice time, do something fun. Really the best revenge you can ever have is having a good life.

I hope you have a great weekend.

ML
In a word:
no <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
2 words:
no way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
3 words:
aint't no way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
4 words:
aint' no way baby <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
H

Look at this as an opportunity. It is pride that drives the desire to call, to get back your dignity, to inflict compensatory pain on him etc. So your feelings are normal, but by resisting them you are "exercising" your puschological muscles, just like going to the gym and working out. You will get stronger at not letting pride drive your behaviour. If you truly want to seperate from him, to completely withdraw any 'connection" then you have to get to a place of indifference, where whatever he thinks or does (or you think or do re him) makes no difference to you....you do that by continuing to keep NC, and let time works it's magic. You justify the pain by realizing your psychological muscles are getting stronger each day you resist, and that in so doing you are "improving" your worth as a partner to a future mate.... so embrace the pain lilly, it is good for you, stay away.

I'm going to jump in here with another suggestion. Sometimes we do things for reasons other than what it seems. Your need to call him to tell him off might be a subconcious attempt to reestablish contact. On the surface you are justifying it by telling yourself that he deserves to get an earfull from you. This might not be the case, but I have found that we often do things for reasons other than those we have convinced ourselves of.

MissLilly,

Seeing as how everyone in this little triangle is so deserving, you had better call the BS once again and let her know of your desire to contact her H once again.

You should also be honest with her and tell her that such contact creates the potential of a renewed A.

If you really want to be honest and open about the A then invite the BS along for the ride. Allow her to witness your final contact with her H.

Or, just do as the others here suggested and maintain NC. You've already exposed the A and are in NC. Leave well enough alone.

ba109

The wish to be understood, and the wish to be right, is a powerful motivation in many of our actions. You wish him to acknowledge the pain he has caused you, you wish him to understand what he has done.

If he had the empathy and compassion you are ascribing to him, you wouldn't be where you are. This is a selfish, inconsiderate person. If his wife's pain hasn't made an impression on him after all these years -- why do you think you will? Sure you could cause some temporary acknowledgement of your pain -- but do you honestly think he will never do this again?

If anything should persuade him -- it should be his wife's pain, his kids' pain. You have intruded on their painful and humiliating situation -- the most considerate thing to them would be to withdraw from their lives. Think of them.

stay dark, no contact

It's really the only healthy way to get stronger.

I'm almost 8 months past dday and was placed in no-contact by my ww almost 5 months ago. We have talked 4 times and each time does bring a new down cycle. Though for me the last down time was very short lived as I think I'm getting much stronger.

On the other hand the OM wife who is a friend of mine has been having difficulty not separating from her WH and he's had difficulty separating from his wife and affair partner (my WW).

There continued breaks and recontact are keeping them in a constant downward spin. He's fence sitting knowing the affair won't last as he's told his wife and others but can't stop his need to have everything in hopes that one day he will find clearity to choose my WW or his wife.

He's going to lose both.


OM wife just can't decide between cutting him off for good in fear of losing him forever vs staying close by (feeling the pain) and hoping he will choose her. She just can't let go.

You see she may be thinking just like you on some leval. Knowing that she needs to let go because she feels better when she does. Staying and talking which makes her hurt or staying in an attempt to break the affair bond or vent her pain and anger. The problem with her and your situation is you want conflicting things.

You can't leave and talk at the same time. You can't think clearly while still fueling the storm.

Lilly,

Don't call!

find something else to do .. ever been to a driving range? REally fun to whack the balls, even if you've never taken a golf lesson.

And usually they have equipment there you can rent.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong> The wish to be understood, and the wish to be right, is a powerful motivation in many of our actions. You wish him to acknowledge the pain he has caused you, you wish him to understand what he has done.

If he had the empathy and compassion you are ascribing to him, you wouldn't be where you are. This is a selfish, inconsiderate person. If his wife's pain hasn't made an impression on him after all these years -- why do you think you will? Sure you could cause some temporary acknowledgement of your pain -- but do you honestly think he will never do this again?

If anything should persuade him -- it should be his wife's pain, his kids' pain. You have intruded on their painful and humiliating situation -- the most considerate thing to them would be to withdraw from their lives. Think of them. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey AM-
Awesome wisdom on this one....thanks!!

Misslilly

Another part says he isnt worth the energy of dialing the phone!

Miss Lilly, I couldn't have said it better myself. This is a very tough time for you right now. You're showing remarkable courage in resisting temptation. Kudos. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

MTD

Hi Lilly....I've spent the last evening and this morning reading your posts and replies. Like you, I am an xOW, that called the W, and found out I too was deceived; hense, misinterpreted the meaning our R, and most likely him. It has been a few months since Dday and NC. The XMM tried to call a few times, noted on my caller ID, not answered. One was an hour after the BW and I talked. I assume that one was his impulse in anger to connect with me, most likely to tell me off for making the call. It's not his anger I want to know of; it's his humble remorse, for the pain he has caused, from all his lies and deceit. For me to call him, isn't necessary to find out anything. I feel, if he has learned anything i.e. through IC, about the wrongness he has done, he would send me a note of sincere apology. Don't think I'll be holding my breath, for that one.

Our R spanned 9 years..(how I wish it was 6 mos.)... I do more reading at this board, than posting, to get insight into the thoughts/ feelings of the others in the triad of an A. To get some clearer vision of what the hell happened to me. How could I have wasted such a long chunk of my life, believing in a man that I fell deeply in love with. How could I not see through it all; I believed everything he said about the M being a mistake, and the reasons why; he always needed more time to resolve personal struggles, and issues, with himself so he could be stonger to confront the W and address issues in the M. He said, someday when he felt W and M were at a certain progress point, he would be open (honest) It would be then, him and I would know our direction. I think that's how one year turned into two, and into three, and into four, and so on; he never was honest with her, nor do I now believe he ever had any intention to be all along. This reality changed the whole premise of what our relativity was. Never had I an intent to be anyone's OW; the extra in a EMR. The man needed to be called on/held responsible, by me; and by his W, if she decides to, for his actions.

My calling the W, was to set a "wrong" right. Create an honest platform, from which each of us could move on from. My decision to call was made with integrity, not ego.

My love for him is evident as each day passes. I miss him terrible, even thou he has deep, personal issues needing resolution, if he is ever to be capable of knowing and valuing a true, deeply intimate, monogamous "relationship" with a woman. I don't want to believe he has been intentional a bad man; but rather would like to consider him having emotional problems, that he can get help with.

Don't call him!......let it go, and feel lucky you didn't lose more precious time with him. You did a good, and with a sense of honor and integrity. Read posts here, and other boards, (as TOW) to find resolution and peace....(certainly won't get it from him). It's surprising what you'll learn. Some of what you read may make you sad; but, it will also make you wiser. So sorry for what you're going through..(you're not alone).

Wow. What a story, Amore. At the risk of sounding cliched, thank you for sharing it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amore:
<strong> Hi Lilly....I've spent the last evening and this morning reading your posts and replies. Like you, I am an xOW, that called the W, and found out I too was deceived; hense, misinterpreted the meaning our R, and most likely him. It has been a few months since Dday and NC. The XMM tried to call a few times, noted on my caller ID, not answered. One was an hour after the BW and I talked. I assume that one was his impulse in anger to connect with me, most likely to tell me off for making the call. It's not his anger I want to know of; it's his humble remorse, for the pain he has caused, from all his lies and deceit. For me to call him, isn't necessary to find out anything. I feel, if he has learned anything i.e. through IC, about the wrongness he has done, he would send me a note of sincere apology. Don't think I'll be holding my breath, for that one.

Our R spanned 9 years..(how I wish it was 6 mos.)... I do more reading at this board, than posting, to get insight into the thoughts/ feelings of the others in the triad of an A. To get some clearer vision of what the hell happened to me. How could I have wasted such a long chunk of my life, believing in a man that I fell deeply in love with. How could I not see through it all; I believed everything he said about the M being a mistake, and the reasons why; he always needed more time to resolve personal struggles, and issues, with himself so he could be stonger to confront the W and address issues in the M. He said, someday when he felt W and M were at a certain progress point, he would be open (honest) It would be then, him and I would know our direction. I think that's how one year turned into two, and into three, and into four, and so on; he never was honest with her, nor do I now believe he ever had any intention to be all along. This reality changed the whole premise of what our relativity was. Never had I an intent to be anyone's OW; the extra in a EMR. The man needed to be called on/held responsible, by me; and by his W, if she decides to, for his actions.

My calling the W, was to set a "wrong" right. Create an honest platform, from which each of us could move on from. My decision to call was made with integrity, not ego.

My love for him is evident as each day passes. I miss him terrible, even thou he has deep, personal issues needing resolution, if he is ever to be capable of knowing and valuing a true, deeply intimate, monogamous "relationship" with a woman. I don't want to believe he has been intentional a bad man; but rather would like to consider him having emotional problems, that he can get help with.

Don't call him!......let it go, and feel lucky you didn't lose more precious time with him. You did a good, and with a sense of honor and integrity. Read posts here, and other boards, (as TOW) to find resolution and peace....(certainly won't get it from him). It's surprising what you'll learn. Some of what you read may make you sad; but, it will also make you wiser. So sorry for what you're going through..(you're not alone). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Amore-
Thank you for taking the time to read my posts and also for sharing yours. Your words ring true and I am also so sorry to hear of your "wasted time" with a MM-though now I do see it was not all wasted as Ive realized many valuable lessons from it all.
Thanks again-
Misslilly

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amore:
<strong> Hi Lilly....I've spent the last evening and this morning reading your posts and replies. Like you, I am an xOW, that called the W, and found out I too was deceived; hense, misinterpreted the meaning our R, and most likely him. It has been a few months since Dday and NC. The XMM tried to call a few times, noted on my caller ID, not answered. One was an hour after the BW and I talked. I assume that one was his impulse in anger to connect with me, most likely to tell me off for making the call. It's not his anger I want to know of; it's his humble remorse, for the pain he has caused, from all his lies and deceit. For me to call him, isn't necessary to find out anything. I feel, if he has learned anything i.e. through IC, about the wrongness he has done, he would send me a note of sincere apology. Don't think I'll be holding my breath, for that one.

Our R spanned 9 years..(how I wish it was 6 mos.)... I do more reading at this board, than posting, to get insight into the thoughts/ feelings of the others in the triad of an A. To get some clearer vision of what the hell happened to me. How could I have wasted such a long chunk of my life, believing in a man that I fell deeply in love with. How could I not see through it all; I believed everything he said about the M being a mistake, and the reasons why; he always needed more time to resolve personal struggles, and issues, with himself so he could be stonger to confront the W and address issues in the M. He said, someday when he felt W and M were at a certain progress point, he would be open (honest) It would be then, him and I would know our direction. I think that's how one year turned into two, and into three, and into four, and so on; he never was honest with her, nor do I now believe he ever had any intention to be all along. This reality changed the whole premise of what our relativity was. Never had I an intent to be anyone's OW; the extra in a EMR. The man needed to be called on/held responsible, by me; and by his W, if she decides to, for his actions.

My calling the W, was to set a "wrong" right. Create an honest platform, from which each of us could move on from. My decision to call was made with integrity, not ego.

My love for him is evident as each day passes. I miss him terrible, even thou he has deep, personal issues needing resolution, if he is ever to be capable of knowing and valuing a true, deeply intimate, monogamous "relationship" with a woman. I don't want to believe he has been intentional a bad man; but rather would like to consider him having emotional problems, that he can get help with.

Don't call him!......let it go, and feel lucky you didn't lose more precious time with him. You did a good, and with a sense of honor and integrity. Read posts here, and other boards, (as TOW) to find resolution and peace....(certainly won't get it from him). It's surprising what you'll learn. Some of what you read may make you sad; but, it will also make you wiser. So sorry for what you're going through..(you're not alone). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Amore-
Thank you for taking the time to read my posts and also for sharing yours. Your words ring true and I am also so sorry to hear of your "wasted time" with a MM-though now I do see it was not all wasted as Ive realized many valuable lessons from it all.
Thanks again-
Misslilly

MissLilly: Hope this finds you well. Was thinking about you today, and some things you mentioned in your posts. Hope you're not taking any more pills, for any reason. They can become a crutch; and be addictive.(end up being just something else you'll have to give up)...Again, I'll encourage you to not call....(you'll have your moments, more than once when you'll want to for one reason or another)

This isn't the first time I've gone through an ending with this man; it's just the first last time. (He always called me; or I, him, when we had one of those moments; for one reason or another).

In this grieving, I have felt such anger, and drove myself crazy wondering what the truths were. I'm not one of those people that want to be cushioned as much as possible from upset; if it means deceit. I've always wanted the truth, regardless of how much it hurt. I can deal with reality; I'm a survivor. How many times have I told him.....I need honesty. I can't get mad at honesty. (Maybe I would get upset/or be disappointed...so what!) It hurts so much now, to imagine anything/everything could have been false. Had I known, I wouldn't have stood by him all those years. Or gone back any of the times I did. (we were on and off for over 20 years)

A few nights ago, I dreampt he died. (That was a first). In the dream, I was falling apart, crying my heart out; exclaiming over and over again; "It can't be true; he can't die; we're going to be together; we haven't had "our" time; the time I waited and sacrificed so much for". I woke up; and just buried my head under my comforter; and cried and sobbed some more; feeling the deepest anguish; I'm crying now.....It hurts so much to imagine the truth isn't what we thought. Before him, I never doubted the person I was involved with. There hadn't been any man I loved/that loved me, that I couldn't trust. I never questioned "trust".....it was always there. Now, I can't imagine believing/trusting anyone again. How could I. I never knew how naive I could be; how blind. It's as if I can't trust myself, either (my own judgement; to believe in another). I'm afraid my life has changed drastically, since him....I'm not the woman I was; that's for sure.

It's good to talk to others. I was so much to myself, thinking my friends would look down on me, if they knew. This I was wrong about. The few I've confided in have proven to be very compassionate, loving, and supportive. In IC? hey, I tell him everything, as crazy as some of my thoughts and feelings may seem to be to me. Right now, he is the only one I do trust, to be honest with me. (friends are good in many ways, but they have sympathy, and are not professionally knowledgeable in the field I need right now)

Keep up the good work, in moving on Lilly...Think about next Summer, and the new life you're going to have, without him in your thoughts. Plan and save up to rent a summer cottage; or take a train to someplace you've never been. Sometimes in life there are no answers; and peace comes, when we stop looking for them. (There is nothing these men could say, that could sufficiently ease the pain and lasting effects they've caused others; and what they could say, most likely wouldn't be sincere.)