I feel screwed.

A month ago, I confrontd my WS about her affair. Overall, we're working on it and I remain hopeful for the future.

Naturally, I go through some moments of depression and think the worst....what if we don't work it out and split up?

As the sole breadwinner, I will get hosed. So, I get stabbed in the back by my cheating wife and then taken to the cleaners. This sucks and indicates to me why it's likely for women to file more often then men.

FWIW - We've been married 10 years, have 2 kids, and although my wife hasn't worked in 9 years, she:

-has a masters degree and is 37
-had an established career up until about 9 years ago.
-has a budding photography business that one might argue could be far more successful financially if she wanted it to.

Anyway, can anybody shed some light or advice?

Comanche

Comanche unless you want your fears to become a self fulfilled prophecy I humbly suggest that you stop this kind of thinking and instead concentrate on creating an emotionally safe environment where your W will feel free to confide in you her innermost thoughts and feelings without the fear of being punished or you reacting like a wounded animal. Yes you are the injured party here and you have every right to be extremely upset about her betrayal, but if you truly want to save and rebuild your marriage then you are going to have to put aside you resentment and do the work that is needed to achieve this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> Comanche unless you want your fears to become a self fulfilled prophecy I humbly suggest that you stop this kind of thinking and instead concentrate on creating an emotionally safe environment where your W will feel free to confide in you her innermost thoughts and feelings without the fear of being punished or you reacting like a wounded animal. Yes you are the injured party here and you have every right to be extremely upset about her betrayal, but if you truly want to save and rebuild your marriage then you are going to have to put aside you resentment and do the work that is needed to achieve this. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to disagree with TMCM. You should not be taken to the cleaners because your W had an A.

On the advice of my best friend (who is also my lawyer) after D-day I immediately took actions to protect myself financially. I won't discuss exactly what I did, but suffice to say, I am fairly well protected.

Now, he did not recommend I divorce her, or kick her out. In fact, just the opposite. He recommended I work on the marriage and try to save it. But, since I was not the one who strayed, we both agreed that I should not be unduly penalized financially if things do not make it.
Michael

Comanche,

I disagree w/ TMCM too. I understand w/ his reasoning but cosider this. My WW had EA and I confront her. We try to work it out for 3 years ... I even FORGOT about the incident until I found out it is the same OM again. By the time she filed I had .5M more than if I walked out that time, she had quit her job soon after and I have to split them up plus she wants to take me to the cleaner ... see my signature. She quit her jobs and let it lapse enough (3 years) b4 she stirred up the Dv. She wants everything and we have to go to the trial now ... at least $5K more just for each laywer.

If you do see a lawyer to protect yourself ... you have to tell her. If you are not comfortable then there is something wrong in your recovery. In either case, you have to give your 100% in working this out.

You have to be honest with your feeling ... it is not your job to make you to trust and feeling comfortable, she had A! ... it is her job. The same thing apply to you, you have to make her feel safe in rebuilding the M. Let MC & her to work out how ... if your MC sided w/ your WW you better find a new one since down the road you will looking for a lawyer.

-rh-

<small>[ November 09, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

TMCM - I hear you. And I have been working on creating that safe environment. If someone were to have been monitoring the events and discussions over the past month, I'd bet they'd say we've come a long way so far in our efforts to deal with the dance that got us here and to rebuild. 9 months of counseling prior to D-day provided plenty of insight as to what we both were doing wrong. Yet, for better or worse, D-day provided me a better vision for which to deal with it. I feel it and believe in it.

But I'm also still dealing with the shock of it all. The bouts of depression and wild mood swings. It came out in our last session that, although I'm obviously angry, I hadn't done a thing to display it, communicate it or release it. And this was affecting her as she supposedly feels a need to know I am mad and not just the "nice guy." And of course, I can let her walk all over me only so much. So, I'm thinking about that. How does one do that without being destructive?

The question I posed comes from the depths of my far left. The place I hate to go but find myself at occasionally. Not often, just occasionally. Couple that with my recent discovery that my WS hasn't TRULY severed all ties with OM and is lieing to my face about it, and the "what ifs" play out all sorts of scenarios in my mind. Yes, reality is much easier to deal with than that which is imagined, but at what point do I stop thinking about confronting her about these lies and just give her the time and space to deal with her withdrawal without being a doormat?

This is what I like about these forums. I can take a 90% positive outlook based on sound reasoning and what I believe I want and manage my life accordingly. Yet, I can still come here to help deal with that other 10% in a constructive manner.

As for the origianl question, I realize now I wasn't looking for real answers - there aren't any - as much as I was looking to vent. Thanks for listening.

Comanche

Comanche by not confronting her (not the same as losing it with love busters) with the truth about her continued contact with the OM, you are engaging in the same love buster that she is engaging in which is dishonesty. Calmly, respectfully and quietly inform her that while you can't stop her from doing what she wants, that by her maintaining contact with the OM she is still being emotionally intimate with him and thus sabotaging all efforts to regain that intimacy with you. Then leave her alone to digest your comments.

I'm not advocating that you don't try protect yourself financially in case your marriage is headed for divorce, but it is very hard to do so if you live in a no-fault State (unless Michael could be persuaded to inform us how he was able to do it). But if you beleive that it will help you, then by all means do go and consult with an aggresive divorce attorney to find out what things you can do now, to minimize the financial impact a divorce will have on you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> (unless Michael could be persuaded to inform us how he was able to do it). But if you beleive that it will help you, then by all means do go and consult with an aggresive divorce attorney to find out what things you can do now, to minimize the financial impact a divorce will have on you. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I won't say much, other than to say most of it has to do with how the ownership of my business is structured. You would be surprised what a good attorney can do, all perfectly legal.
Michael

Comanche, not to highjack your thread, but I am dying of curiosity about something. Why did you choose the name Comanche? I live in old Comanche territory and have some family connections with them.

Comanche,

Check out the separation and D options in your State. Secure a good lawyer (you don't have to hire them yet, they have to prove they are qualified to see that your family's interest is protected against the WS and OM). Act like you think they (WS & OM) are out to take you to the cleaners. Don't settle for less protection and options than that. This way if the WS does less you are already covered and have the ability to negogiate down (not the WS nego. up).

Secure a good financial advisor if your assets warrant such. Get an MC who understands and knows how to handle these stupid A issues. Finding one familar with Dr Harley's principles is a good place to start. I believe there is another site on MB about guidelines in securing a good MC/IC (Check out the MB Discussion forums lists).

Get yourself mentally to be able to take the D walk if necessary. That way you are removing the hurdles the WS may throw your way.

Realize that WS' often bluff with threats and you need to know you don't have to be sucked into their chaos. If the WS has to move out to reduce the pain being inflicted on your family, then allow that to happen. It may mean pushing the Ws and OM together. They are doing that anyway so that fear needs to be kept in balance. Sometimes giving the OM all the WS' needs is a good thing. Especially if the OM is NOT capable.

Keep reading. These guys/gals here have a lot of experience and advice to offer but in the end, the decision w/b ours. Hope JL steps in w/ his 2 cents.

take care,
L.

You MUST tell her that you know she is lying. Recovery does not start until withdrawal is over. Every time they contact each other, withdrawal starts again, if it is not a continuation of the actual affair. Harley does not even counsel any couple if the affairees are still in contact. Until contact is permanently ended, your recovery has not started. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It came out in our last session that, although I'm obviously angry, I hadn't done a thing to display it, communicate it or release it. And this was affecting her as she supposedly feels a need to know I am mad and not just the "nice guy." ... How does one do that without being destructive? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a life-long conflict avoider who stuffed his anger in part because I did not know how to handle it constructively, I think I can tell you this. Your anger will be your guide to what is important to you. However, you have to dig beneath the anger and look at the fear, the pain, the embarassment, or the frustration that is causing it. When you are angry with your wife, you say: "It hurts me when you do xxx" or "I am frustrated because I feel I can't xxx" or "I am afraid that xxx will happen" or "I am afraid because I believe xxx" or "When you do xxx it makes me feel like I am not good enough for you, and I am afraid I never can be." etc. Fear will likely be a big theme.

Read up on Harley's descriptions of Love Busters and avoid them assiduously.

Click on the link in my signature line, too. There are many tools there that will help you. I don't imagine you are sleeping much right now anyway...so you might as well use the time to educate yourself about the battle you are in

<small>[ November 09, 2003, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Comanche -

I'm going to be the voice in the other direction, here. Take a hard look at the risks, here. On the one side, you're risking losing your marriage by creating an increased level of conflict. Trust me, this ALWAYS happens when you bring in a laywer, no matter what your intentions are at the time. Once you start a lawyer "protecting" you, then they do just that. Your lawyer will protect your money at the expense of your marriage.

On the other side, you're risking losing your money by choosing to focus on your marriage. You may well lose more money if things go badly than you would otherwise.

Look at this very thoughtfully. How much is your marriage worth to you? Are you willing to lose every dollar gambling that your marriage can be saved? Are you willing to lose your marriage gambling that your money can be saved?

I don't know the answer to these questions. I didn't, thank goodness, have to think them through in my own situation. I did have to think about whether my daughter or my marriage was more important to me. In the end, my daughter is more important, and I don't regret that choice for an instant even though it may well mean that I lost my marriage.

So. Think about it really hard before you call that lawyer. And if you do see one, make it VERY VERY clear that you'll fire that lawyer's butt if he or she says the word divorce before you've been through a good Plan A and a good Plan B.

Commanche could it be you really want something else?

Perhaps you really want an insurance marker in case things don't work out?

Okay here are some lower level protection.

Insist on a post nuptual....yep there are post nups just like pre nups.

1) It must be reasonable and in line with whatever advantage you feel you have right now because she strayed.
2) To truly recover it also must have a reasonable time limit within it should lapse. 1 to 2 years max.

Want to turn up the heat then depending on your state you can file for legal seperation.

1) Gets very detailed as much as a divorce including custody issues BUT its not final leaves the door open for reconcilation....also powerful Plan B if it comes to that.

2) Risky for a number of reasons. She may think she wants a divorce and your actions may provoke her to do so. A seperation can be converted by either party into a divorce...laws vary by state. So you may have actually put in place the divorce she might want. Plus you cannot move back in with her or vice versa EVER while seperated or the seperation is voided.

Commanche how long has the affair been going on?
How long have you known?

If you have just found out don't rush to a lawyer. Panic divorces upon discovery are some of the most regretted but unreversable mistakes you could make....her too for that matter.

Most states allow a one year period to use adultery in a divorce filing including no fault divorce states like mine (Georgia).