mrsx. I hope that I haven't said anything to hurt or offend you. I haven't heard from you in awhile. It sounds like things are getting a little better. I hope so. I know that you have been through a lot and I just want to let you know that I still think and worry about you and I am pulling for you!!!

(((SG)))
Yes honey we are very much alike in our situations. It *is* eerie.
And I know what you mean about EVERYTHING reminding you of OM. Same here. Because we were so alike in almost every way, we shared so many of the same interests, hobbies, music, favorite places, times of day, code-words that only we knew, etc. etc. I can associate EVERYTHING with OM. Even at work I am reminded of him when people mention his name or when I walk past the office he used to occupy. Even the cologne he wears. If I smell someone wearing it, I go nuts. It's very sad. But my therapist told me that all those things that I love and used to share with OM, well I OWN those, they are my favorite things and I don't have to share them with him any longer.

I am in NO position to understand what the hell that means, but I am trying to analyze it and hopefully one day the pain will lessen to the point where yes, I may think of OM during any of those familiar situations, but hopefully the pain won't accompany the memories. I hope that I can get to the point where I say to myself, "what was I thinking?" My therapist says I will and I guess I can only hope.

Incidentally, I had a GREAT day today. I was feeling sorry for myself this morning and really missing OM. I was thinking OMG how the heck am I gonna get thru the day? Well, 2 of my closest friends and my sister called me at work just to say hi and see how I am feeling. 3 friends of mine at work wanted to go to the mall, we went in my car at lunchtime and had so much fun. H called to say hello. And I thought to myself, you know, seriously, I am surrounded by people that love me! I am blessed for that. God showed me that even tho OM isn't here, there are so many people who really love me and genuinely care about me that are!
I allowed myself to appreciate that feeling and it felt great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
SG, hang in there with me!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lisa103:
<strong> mrsx. I hope that I haven't said anything to hurt or offend you. I haven't heard from you in awhile. It sounds like things are getting a little better. I hope so. I know that you have been through a lot and I just want to let you know that I still think and worry about you and I am pulling for you!!! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lisa, I love u honey, being on this rollercoaster, I sometimes neglect to communicate. Sorry.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

mrsx. I'm sorry for taking things so personally. I have to tell you this, I had been doing really good for the last week and a half, until today. As you know, I think everyone at the office knows about my A. We have a new girl that started work there about 2 months ago. She and I have hit off really well. She is very funny and our personalities just clicked. One of the brokers that she works for came over to my desk the other day while I was talking to her and made the comment that he and I go back a long way and we know all the "dirt" on each other. First of all, I have never confided in him about my A, so what he has heard has been strictly due to office gossip. He has always been kinda like a brother in some ways to me. We have worked together for about 15 of the 17 years that I have been there. I emailed him and basically told him that I didn't care for my "dirt" to be brought up again. Well, this girl and I went to lunch today and I asked her if he had told her anything about me. She would not answer. She wasn't going to lie so she let me figure it out for myself. Amazingly enough, the OM's name wasn't mentioned, just mine. I cannot tell you how bad that hurt me. He has made many suggestive remarks to me in the past that I thought was just in fun, now I know what he was doing. I guess that every man there thinks that I'm just a slut and wants a piece of the action. mrsx, I need to find another job so badly, it seems like I take one step forward and 2 back. I have the jaw disorder "TMJ" which I have had two surgeries for in the past and still have a lot of pain. One day something came up about my jaws hurting and this broker made the comment, "so, Lisa, what have you been doing with your mouth"? I can't stand the disrepect. My heart breaks for what I have done to my reputation and I can never rebuild it as long as men like that think that they have the right to say things like that to me. I'm sorry for rambling on about myself so much, it's just been a really bad, emotional day. A set back to say the least. I did want to tell you that I read your e-mail and we were notified recently that all of our "outside emails" are now being monitored due to security reasons. Please email me at lillissie13aol account from now on, ok? That way I won't have to worry about what they are monitoring.

Mrsx- The cologne is what's the worse trigger for me. And also, like you said, we had code words that only we understood, etc. I miss talking to him on my cell phone on my way home or listening to his voice messages throughout the day. See, I have to stop dwelling on all that stuff and it's very difficult to do that.
I have made such a huge mess for myself and it's up to me to fix it.
I'm so glad that you had a good day yesterday and realized that so many people do love you. I hope that it helped fill part of that void that you're feeling. It's nice when you have family and friends who are supportive and want to help you. I wish I had someone to confide in. Actually, we're planning on telling a friend sometime coming up here soon so that I have someone to talk to if H is unavailable.

Lisa- I read your post and I just wanted to say that what those men are doing is very degrading and you shouldn't have to put up with it. OM was just as much a "slut" as you were (If that's what they're insinuating about you) and it's interesting that they're not harassing him the same way as they are you. Do whatever you can to get the heck out of there. You deserve so much better that what they're offering you and they're obviously not appreciating you for who you are.
I hope that it gets better for you. But, in the future if someone makes a comment like that to you, you should just turn to them and say "if you have something to say then please say it directly because whatever it is that you're implying is really unprofessional and I would appreciate it if the comments would stop."
Just hold your chin up and your head high because unlike OM, you're actually taking steps to make yourself better. You're a good person Lisa, don't let them tell you any different.

(((LISA))) (((SG)))

I am at work and don't have time really but I wanted to give you both hugs.
Lisa I am so sorry for the way you are being disrespected at work. I'll email you tonight.
SG, that was great advice to Lisa, btw! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks everyone for being here for me. Right now the physical aspect of withdrawl is improving, at least I am not having panic attacks anymore. Unfortunately I still have OM on my mind a lot and wonder if he is thinking about me since I ended contact. I guess I am obsessing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
H & I are getting along a little bit better every day, I swear. I can't believe what a difference NC makes. One good thing that keeps me feeling a little good about myself is that I confessed the A to my H. I am glad I came clean. Thanks to all who "forced" me to do it.....Now we can work on our M honestly. OM told me he will take this to the grave, and he won't tell her whether or not he stays in the M. Makes me feel like his M is not based on honesty and respect. And I wonder how they will be able to rebuild when the A is always going to be kept a dark secret that only he keeps? I know it's not my business but again, it makes me realize that I am more in control of my situation than I think. I really do think that in the end, honesty will prevail.
Now if I could just get over the darned withdrawl from that OM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ February 25, 2004, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: mrsx ]</small>

mrsx:

I hope you see that in telling your H you are definitely a bigger person than OM is. OM was not worthy of you!

Sadly, you also hit on something that I think ought to be brought to the attention of other WWs. You mentioned how "everyone" at work knew about your A, and how hard it was for you. Imagine how hard THAT is for your H! I'll bet a dollar he knows or suspects that your A is known by everyone. I'll bet another dollar that he is feeling in some measure that everyone laughs at him behind his back because of this.
"Poor sap, couldn't keep the old lady happy in the sack."
"Guy must be hung like a hampster."
"What a schmuck!"

This goes, in my opinion, very much to the core of why BH seem to have such a problem with reconciliation and forgiveness. I know it was an issue for me. It was bad enough to know that your W went into the arms of another man; it is another to know or think that the world knows it, too, and judges you (the BH) accordingly.

Again, congratulations on being a better person than your OM.

Uphill, thanks for the encouragement. It was Lisa though who mentioned about everyone at work knowing.
Although OM & I worked together neither one of us told anyone at work about the A. I am sure that some ppl in our department suspected something but I can't say for sure if anyone actually "KNOWS". I hope not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Again thanks for the encouraging words!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Uphill:
<strong> mrsx:

I hope you see that in telling your H you are definitely a bigger person than OM is. OM was not worthy of you!

Sadly, you also hit on something that I think ought to be brought to the attention of other WWs. You mentioned how "everyone" at work knew about your A, and how hard it was for you. Imagine how hard THAT is for your H! I'll bet a dollar he knows or suspects that your A is known by everyone. I'll bet another dollar that he is feeling in some measure that everyone laughs at him behind his back because of this.
"Poor sap, couldn't keep the old lady happy in the sack."
"Guy must be hung like a hampster."
"What a schmuck!"

This goes, in my opinion, very much to the core of why BH seem to have such a problem with reconciliation and forgiveness. I know it was an issue for me. It was bad enough to know that your W went into the arms of another man; it is another to know or think that the world knows it, too, and judges you (the BH) accordingly.

Again, congratulations on being a better person than your OM. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

mrsx:

Sorry for that - thanks for clearing that up.

Still, it is a point I think all WW ought to remember. The depth of the humiliation many of us BH feel is hard to put into words, yet it is definitely there. Many times I felt like a sap for wanting to reconcile; I felt as if I was being taken advantage of. I definitely felt like a meal ticket, and that my value to my W was both limited and conditional.

But, moreover it made (makes?) me doubt myself constantly. It affected me at work, further compounding the absense of manliness I have struggled with since D-Day. In the end, the only way I could redeem myself was to leave WW. I had to take a stand and try to reclaim some dignity. I still love my W, but I can't say as a wife.

I am just saying this to share with you and other WW what I as a BH am feeling. We don't always say or show our wives what we are feeling, and sometimes that is consciously by choice.

Uphill,

Thanks for helping me to understand the BH side a little better. My H doesn't really articulate how he feels, when I ask him he says sad, depressed, disappointed, hurt. I don't push him to be more specific but I think it would help if he were to elaborate a bit. I have no clue what he really feels inside about me and the A.

It's not a huge topic of discussion in our home as H would rather just get on with our lives and I think he basically is watching for signs of contact, how I interact with him, where I go after work and on the weekends and how much I am putting into our M. He is definitely watching me with a very close eye, but at the same time, he is sweet, loving and affectionate. So it's hard for me to determine what is going on with him, and again, I can't possibly imagine as it has never happened to me. I do wonder if he is in a type of denial or just trying to push away the really intense feelings. He is not an emotional guy, he is a thinker. Explains why when he cried his eyes out last month that was when I started getting serious about NC w/OM. In 11 years I have never seen him sad, never mind cry! That was a real shock to MY system and it hurt me to see him that way and scared the HECK out of me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Now I am taking the MB day by day and the NC w/OM day by day. This isn't fun for me, I can't imagine what it must be like for him...

Mrs X,
I was a little bit like your H. Had a hard time articulating what I was feeling.

My W & I read "Not Just Friends" by Glass together. I'm sure Surviving an Affair by Harley would work also. I'd read a passage and tell her to read it,,"that's what I'm feeling." It may help to try it on your H, too.

my best,

cwmac

mrsx:

Sometimes, as BH, we often choose not to reveal how we are feeling to our WW.

To further expand on this:
That my W had an A was both humiliating and painful. I thought I had opened up to her; granted as a man my communication style is different than a woman's, but I was as honest and open as I could be. Part of that, for a man, means being "strong and silent" as opposed to "whiny", so I did keep a lot of things to myself in our M. But, I thought I had opened my heart to her more than any other person in this world.

So, I chose not to reveal too much to her after D-day because I did not want to put myself in for another heart-stomping. A large part of it was because I was terrified that she would discard me like a used pair of shoes once I'd outlived my usefulness. She did it once before, what was to stop her from doing it again?

But part of it was to appear strong. Again, I didn't want to appear whiny and needy - especially when I needed her than she seemed to need me. Talk about a position of weakness! So, holding back was not only a way of protecting myself from further pain and rejection, it was also a way of showing I am strong, and that if rejected I will survive.

It is also unbecoming for a man to be whiny and needy. It is unmanly to be in a position where you need the other person so much more than they need you. It is unmanly to be so reliant on someone else. It is unmanly to be hurt. Men are supposed to be tough, self reliant, and with resolve. Thus, accepting back a WW and opening up to her are, on some level, counter to being a man.

So, when your H holds back from you, please keep in mind what may be going through his head. You have no idea of how humiliating what you did was. You have no idea of how humiliating it can be to take your H back. Maybe, like me, he is feeling that it is a tremendous imbalance in need. He needs you more than you seem to need him and holding back is a way of making the playing field seem more level.

Because, if it were acknowledged that he does indeed need you more, it gives you all the power. You are in a position to do this again, or leave him altogether.

I am not saying this IS what is going on in his mind, mind you. I am only saying that I felt those things, I have seen other BH feel them, and it is possible that your H is feeling them. He may be doing better processing this intellectually than I did, but it may well be a struggle he wages internally and the fact that he is would be just another thing he wouldn't want to share with you. Either because he is committed to resolving it on his own, he desperately wants to have it resolved, or he is afraid that it would simply add to that unattractive "not manly" image.

You know, what I would have wanted most from my W after D-Day? Reaffirmation that I was a man. Recognition of my good parts. I had many weaknesses, but I was not and am not a bad, evil man. Recognition of my standing by her during the times she missed OM and wanted to go after him. Thanks for my patience when she could not come to me intimately because she was still pining for OM.

Acknowledgement that I was choosing to take her back.
Gratitude for giving her that chance.

WOW. Thanks so much Uphill. Everything you said makes so much sense. I don't even know how to begin to reply but I will say that I will try harder to prove to H that I do believe he is worth it. I will do my best to acknowledge his good points and also show that I do appreciate that he still loves me and wants me.

I think I am doing a pretty good job of this now, as I do make sure I give him tons of attention, affection, etc. and also don't ignore him like I was when I was so deep in the A or disregard him because I was catering to OM.

I will prove to him that he is definitely in every way, shape and form a better man than OM, that he is miles above OM as far as being a real man and a decent human being. Just the fact that OM will not admit A to his W shows the difference in character. I also want to prove to him that I can and will from this point on that I can be a better wife and human being than I have displayed in the past year.

Again, thanks for taking the time to show me things from a different perspective. It does help me see H more as a human being with feelings, which for some reason I couldn't do for a long time.

mrsx, I am glad for you in your resolve. My W didn't make that commitment to me. Either she couldn't or didn't know how, but I had to leave because of it.

I still love my W. I hope that we can maintain some sort of relationship, but I saw that her feelings for me were not that of a wife for an H. I had no intention of living with someone who sees me as a roommate. I have no intention of living with someone who cannot accept what they did to me or try to make amends. It was time to go.

Best of luck. I hope you and your H both find some growth from this mess.

mrsx

"I will prove to him that he is definitely in every way, shape and form a better man than OM, that he is miles above OM as far as being a real man and a decent human being. Just the fact that OM will not admit A to his W shows the difference in character. I also want to prove to him that I can and will from this point on that I can be a better wife and human being than I have displayed in the past year."

The process that you have gone though to finally be at a point where your H is the most important person in your life has been remarkable. I want to applaude your efforts to stay with the marrige and work on reconciliation. You H also deserves credit for having a willing heart.
I think you are out of fog. Spending time with H and doing things together is just grat.

I am so happy for you

Beau

Hi All,

Still here, still in NC with Mr.Y. Today I am feeling TONS of anger towards him. I mean ANGER!!! I just want to beat the crap outta him. I don't know why I feel this way, just thinking about things I went thru in the past year and so many things that he said or did that are just P***ing me off beyond belief! and I guess also mad at myself for falling for him and allowing myself to be manipulated and mad at myself for having the A to begin with.

UGH lots of anger today... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

URRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH.

MrsX, do you know how good it is that you feel that anger? Next step, acceptance and moving on.

I have been having "talks" with JL about my non remorse on my other thread - I can't wait to feel anger and guilt and remorse! I'm trying to cut back my anti-d's so I get the full force of this and maybe face reality. I'm still dewy eyed about the b****std. Getting better though - I don't think about him nearly as often and when I do I think what a SUCKER I've been.

Jenny

Oh the remorse thing! YES. I am certainly feeling it now. Have been for a few weeks but now it's getting to the point that I am absolutely disgusted with myself and I HATE OM. I guess in a way it's good that I am at this point, but it doesn't feel good at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's horrible, and the worst part is, there are lingering thoughts of OM lurking in my crazy brain. Still wondering if he is thinking of me, as if it really matters????

I feel like he ripped out a huge part of my heart and stomped on it. I am sure my H feels the same about me and with good reason. But I feel like just ripping OM's friggin head off now!

I hate myself for what I have done to my H and I am just so DISGUSTED! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Will I ever be able to "accept" what I have done?
I don't know if I will.

Thanks for the support KiwiJ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and the best to you as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KiwiJ:
<strong> MrsX, do you know how good it is that you feel that anger? Next step, acceptance and moving on.

I have been having "talks" with JL about my non remorse on my other thread - I can't wait to feel anger and guilt and remorse! I'm trying to cut back my anti-d's so I get the full force of this and maybe face reality. I'm still dewy eyed about the b****std. Getting better though - I don't think about him nearly as often and when I do I think what a SUCKER I've been.

Jenny </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">