First the update: It was October of last year when I actually found proof of my FWW's A, and it was November when I confronted her about it.

So in the last year things have been REALLY REALLY bumpy but they are steadily improving. Our "official" recovery began in April with a NC letter being sent out and lots of lies to me about the A. Then in August, she admitted to me on her own, some of the lies that had been said and then went on to clarify those. The problem exists today that she says there have been no more lies but I do not believe her.

Just this week it happened again, I asked her some questions and I don't believe her answers. It isn't always about the A either. There have been multiply POJA breaks that she lies to me about until I confront her with evidence. Because of all the lies over the years, I don't trust her unless I have proof that what she is saying is really true. Everytime she lies or I believe she is lying, I go into a state of withdrawl and little communication with her. I understand that it takes time to form new habits (like POJA and telling the truth), but it is hard when I am sure that she is lying to me but I can't prove it.

Enough taling about the W. In September we attended the MB weekend but haven't started any of the excersises yet because I keep stalling. This week we started scheduling our 15 hours but so far we are 0-3 regarding actually doing what we had planned. I feel little love for my W and I know that will not change for the better unless we do the excersises. I wonder if sub-consicously I don't want our recovery after all and this is just my way of stalling things. Not sure, just a thought I have been mulling over the last few days.

Since we are hitting the 1 year anniversary of things I have been triggering a lot lately. Halloween was a real bummer of a day for both W and I. I am not looking forward to Thanksgiving and I am sure neither is she.

On a scale of 1-10, I would say our recovery is about a 6. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Now for the question. During the A, my W's parents knew about the A, supported it, lied to me to cover for W, lied to others about me to explain my absence during the holidays, lied about OM to explain his presence during the holidays, even let W and OM sleep together at her parents house.

So last April we explained to friends and family that were only going to be with those who support us as a married couple. Her Mom then sent out a very general apology letter to my family, W and myself regarding her role in the A. After W and I discussed things she went to her Mom and explained that an apology from both her parents in person was necessary before a relationship will exist between us. No apology has come and so we have been in NC with her parents since then. W wants to meet with them in person and explain to them the things they did to hurt me: lies to and about me, covering up and excouraging the A. I figure they know exactly what they did and they know how to make things right again if they so choose. We agreed that W would send them an email to remind them what they need to do.

So my question is this: Am I being to pig-headed? Should we meet with them or not? Should I move past this even though no apology has come from her Dad and only a weak general one from her Mom?

Thanks
STTSI and ImReady2Try

Wow, that's a tough one. I was fortunate enough to have in-laws who under NO circumstances would have supported my W's behaviour during her A's. In fact, once they found out, they told her not to come back until it was over and then offered me whatever help I needed including a place to stay <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . I don't see how a parent could support a childs' self destructive behaviour like that. I personally would probably beat one of my kids back into a state of fidelity <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . On the other hand, there is no telling what they were told during the A, and they were probably just trying to make thier daughter happy. I don't think you're being pig-headed, but you may be waiting for something that will never come, at least not with any real sincerity.

For your R, you're almost exactly where I was at a year ago. I've noticed quite a many BS's sabatoge thier own R. Myself included. It took a great deal of effort on Penny's part to set me straight. I even made the mistake of bringing up the D word with her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . Needless to say, she wasn't happy with that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> . I wouldn't beat yourself up to bad, but you have to avoid those DR's. Even if she is breaking the PORH, remember that 2 wrongs aren't gonna make it right. My W was kind of the same way, and the problem was she was just afraid to tell me the truth. She was worried that I had suffered and forgiven so much, she was just scared I would "run out of forgiveness" (in her own words). Try to reassure her that she is safe in telling you the truth, and you have to make sure it stays that way. My W still comes to me with little things from time to time, though now it's just when she remebers something she was too afraid to tell me b4. The important thing is now that she knows that 1) it is safe for her to be honest with me, meaning there won't be any AO's or DR's on my part and 2) I am strong enough to handle whatever it is she has to tell me, as long as it's the truth. My best of luck to you and the lovely Mrs. You really don't know what people mean about R being the hardest part until you get there, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

MTD

P.S. Have you spoken to Penny about this?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">STTSI:

"Enough talking about the W. In September we attended the MB weekend but haven't started any of the excersises yet because I keep stalling. This week we started scheduling our 15 hours but so far we are 0-3 regarding actually doing what we had planned. I feel little love for my W and I know that will not change for the better unless we do the excersises. I wonder if sub-consicously I don't want our recovery after all and this is just my way of stalling things. Not sure, just a thought I have been mulling over the last few days."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your paragraph reminded me of the joke where a good God fearing man goes to heaven and angrily asks God, 'Why didn't you help me win the lottery?' and God told him 'My son, you can't win the lottery if you don't want to buy a ticket'.

You know it's funny how people can find the time to do all sorts of things and yet never seem to find the time to do the things that matter the most in their lives. Please don't be one of those people and show committment and leadership in doing these exercises that may prove to be one of the most important things your and your W's lives. It wouldn't surprise me that once the two of you did these exercises, a lot of your emotional turmoil would be resolved once and for all.

Like the old Nike commercial use to say 'Just Do It'.

2MCM:

You're darn 2tin!

Sttsi: I say that because your thread reminded me of how I've been feeling lately. Without going in2 details, because I "promised" my W that I wouldn't talk about us on the boards, I've been feeling in kind of a funk lately. That funk is keeping me from doing things like you're struggling getting underway, and 2MCM is exactly right.

50 years from now, how do you suppose you will look back on your s2wardship of your M at this time when it needs careful nur2ring the most? 25 years from now, how will *I* look back at now? (because 50 years from now, I'm hoping 2 win a ribbon for becoming the best daisy-pusher in the bone orchard!)

Still, knowing how truly "simple" this is - getting over the stumbling blocks during recovery - it sure ain't easy 2 get the ball rolling.

-ol', ol' 2long

2MCM:

I always figger'd that I'd gladly pay for the lottery ticket, maybe even cut God in for 20% of the loot, if I could just win, just once... ...really big, please? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-2long

Hi STTSI,

I was thinking of you an Imready, wondering how you two are doing.

I don't have any thoughts for you guys except I wish you both the best.

Just wanted to say thanks to all of you who have responded and also thanks to all of you who have helped W and I so far.

W has asked me not to post about us unless she is around to proof it first. So that said, I will post back later with comments this afternoon.

On a side note, not really, W and I spent more than our planned time together yesterday and had a good time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hey sttsi. It's good to hear from you again, even though it's not the best of circumstances. That in-law situation is a tough one. I don't know what I would have done if my in-laws had acted that way. Mine were extremely supportive of me and helped me a lot along the way. I think that they might have done some similar things for my FWW if she had handled it the way yours did. But they would have let her know that she was wrong and they would not have lied to me about what my W was doing. You certainly didn't deserve that amount of disrespect from them. I hope it can all get fixed in a way that satisfies you. You deserve nothing less.

I wanted to thank you again for the help you have been to me, especially early on in my struggles. You have always been one to motivate me to continue in giving my FWW a chance to prove herself. I don't know how my situation will turn out but I wish you the best in your reconciliation with your W. I know you can do it if you both stay determined and don't let life's events slow down your recovery. Good Luck!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So my question is this: Am I being to pig-headed? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oink Oink! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yeah you are being pig headed. But if they don't respond this time after your wife explains how they have injured you then feel free NC.

One year mark can be a hell of a trigger. Its the flashback of discovering the most painful thing in your life.

Suddenly you relive that gut wrenching first shock all over again.

But turn it around.....without discovery the affair would more than likely continued. Without discovery divorce probably would have been looming on the horizon. Without discovery your wife would have never seen what a good man you are and what you really mean to her.

So dread Dday of discovery in one hand and embrace with the other.

MTD- I would have loved to have in-laws like that! There is one exception, I have a brother with wife - in-law who when they heard about the A, stood up to my W and her parents and said what they were doing was wrong. Otherwise her brothers all new and did nothing or said nothing, parents knew and helped it along. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MTD
<strong>I personally would probably beat one of my kids back into a state of fidelity . On the other hand, there is no telling what they were told during the A, and they were probably just trying to make thier daughter happy. I don't think you're being pig-headed, but you may be waiting for something that will never come, at least not with any real sincerity.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you here! W says that she told her parents the truth about what was going on. MIL was quoted as saying last year at Thanksgiving "Don't you think IR2T and OM would make a cute couple?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I know MIL was trying to make her daughter happy, but at the expense of others? What message have they taught their other children about marriage?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MTD
<strong>I've noticed quite a many BS's sabatoge thier own R. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have noticed myself doing that same thing...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MTD
<strong>Try to reassure her that she is safe in telling you the truth, and you have to make sure it stays that way.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I tell her that but she doesn't often believe it. Last night she came clean on some lies from before and everything was cool. I think the only time I get upset is when I know W is still lying to me.

TMCM- Yeah, yeah. Have you heard the one about the guy who dies from the flood... Anyway, I just made photocopies the 5 steps workbook so we can start on those excersises, right now W is organizing the copies. We plan to do them this weekend.

2long-
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 2long
<strong>Without going in2 details, because I "promised" my W that I wouldn't talk about us on the boards</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know what you mean. W is right next to me as I type... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for the understanding words. I keep asking myself why I am still here and my answer is because I am married. But I wonder if the A, the lies and the in-laws are just too much to get over this early in a marrige.

SwH- Thanks for your thoughts, W and I need plenty of help these days as we really seem to hot and cold but never luke warm.

starman-
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Starman
<strong>I think that they might have done some similar things for my FWW if she had handled it the way yours did. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not really sure what you mean here? W claims she told her parents the truth about her and OM. I have no reason to believe her except to ask why would she lie about something like this knowing how I would feel and knowing how it would hurt her R with her parents?

stunned-
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Stunned Dad
<strong>Oink Oink!

Yeah you are being pig headed. But if they don't respond this time after your wife explains how they have injured you then feel free NC.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for backing me/us up on this. W wanted to meet with them and look for an apology that way. I said they can go to he!!, since they know what it will take and have chosen not to do anything about making it right. So we negotiated and agreed that W would draft a letter that I would look at before sending it to her parents as a last attempt at a R with them.

I am OK with this compromise and I think W is too, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't being too stubborn.

Thanks for listening and thanks for your responses.

<small>[ November 14, 2003, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Still Trying To Save It ]</small>

I think I would recommend doing it differently.

What would happen if you went to them, and had a good heart to heart with them.

How would it sound if you two apoligized to them for not knowing how to deal with this, (because - well, what really is the best way?) and then tell them how heart wrenching it was for you when they supported the infidelity, and how you were so hurt that staying away seemed the only thing you could do. Tell them you want to have a good relationship with them, that it is still hard to cope with the feelings left from them suporting her in what she did. Ask them for help in being able to love and trust them again. Ask them how they think it could be worked out.

I tend to try and restore peace, find a way to forgive, make things work.

I know this is not your fault, but remember you will have years to live with what hapens with this. Isn't the biggest person the one that can forgive even before they are apoligized to?

I hope this makes some sense to you. I am not trying to be funny, or give you further pain. What would happen if you were to go to them and say something like this:
" I am sorry for holding a grudge against you. Please forgive me, for my feelings are not right. I want us to have a good relationship, I want to have peace in the family. What I have been doing won't bring that peace, so I come to you seeking to make things better. We want to find a way to create a happier, and better relationship between us, can you help us with that?"

Again, I know it is not your fault, but there has to be a start. If you remember Lady In Red, she changed to this approach in her marriage and it seems to have made all the difference in the world.

Remember your wife loves her parents. She will always love them, much as you will love your children who may stray. Sometimes tough love is the best way, but sometimes it is not. What do you really want to happen with this? Do you really want them to go to he$$? or do you want peace, and can you be the one to bring it to this family? Is this a question of how good can they be? or is it how good can you be? What will your W think of you if you can pull this off?

If they are truly wicked people who have it in for you, I would stay as far away from them as I could, but if they are human, and made a mistake because of some weakness, then perhaps you can be a strong example for them in how to make things right. If it doesn't work, you can always excuse yourselves and maintian distance.

SS

<small>[ November 14, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Let me try to clarify what I meant sttsi. I can picture a scenario where my FWW would have come to her parents and said that she was getting a D from me. If she then started bringing the OM with her when she went to see them, I could see them being polite and if not supportive at least not "rocking the boat". It would be an awkward position to put anyone in and although I know what I would do if it was one of my kids I can see someone with a personality like my MIL handling it like that.

There is no doubt that they handled it badly and you have every right to be angry about it. I was curious, what was your relationship with your in-laws like before this happened? I was just wondering about their motivation. If they had a problem with you before all this started and were actively helping your W because they didn't like YOU for some reason, that would be a lot harder to deal with than the idea that maybe they were just trying to help their D out the best way they knew how and simply didn't take your feelings into account as much as they should have.

I tend to agree with what SS said. I know how easy it is to tell you to be the bigger person in this case when I'm not the one that has to deal with the anger and the resentment. All I know is in my case, each time I have pushed my bad feelings aside and at least tried to take the high road (it's VERY hard sometimes), I have felt very good about my decisions in the long run. Hope this helps clear up my thoughts for you.

Still Seeking, I always like your approach to problems. It's ... soft. Not soft like jello. Soft like Tai Chi or Aikido. It accepts negative energy and turns it into positive energy.

STTSI, I understand very much your hurt and anger toward your in-laws. I have very similar emotions toward mine, particularly my MIL. So... if she were unable to apologize to me and make changes in her actions toward our marriage (in the hazy, unlikely future where WP and I reconcile), I, too, would end contact with her, because she would be a threat to my marriage.

So... keeping Still Seeking's flowing way here, it seems to me that your goal is to turn a detriment to your marriage into a support of your marriage. I don't know what the best way to approach that is, so I'll just quote my friend who's a mediator: "Ask for what you want."