Hi All-

Just returned from a joint therapist session with X. More of the same finger pointing and blaming me for the demise of the relationship. More from X about how I stole his son from him and how he has to BEG me for time with DS.

I'm really frustrated. Apparently so is X.

It's hard when you have to sit there and listen to the blame game. It's especially difficult when you've acknowledged your part in things, have done what you can to address your issues, and have moved away from that type of mindset.

X has been trying to goad me into an argument because things didn't go the way that he wanted it to. Of course I was accused of denying him his rights. As usual though, he forgot to mention that I gave up some of my time with DS at X's request because he missed him.

There is never any acknowledgement for the time that I sacrifice at my job to ensure that Ds wil be at his karate. There is no appreciation for the time that I drive from my job to Ds's school and then to karate. There's only judgement and blame. That's okay though. I'm not reaqlly looking for recognition. I do this for DS.

I'm getting better at rolling his judgements off of me. When I do this, I receive emails questioning why I'm so mean to X. Also inquiry's as to what he's done wrong to have me treat him this way. I wish I understood what drives his thought process. It seems to be okay for him to call me names, throw my past in my face in a manner that justifies HIS bad choices. Yet, it isn't okay for me to avoid his presencee as a means to keep the conflict out of Ds's life.

What about his mean actions? It's okay for him to spit in my face while DS looks on, but it's not okay for me to avoid him?

The worse (or best) part of this depending on your perspective is that he denies that he had ANYTING to do with the demise of our R! To this day he quotes that I made the choice to leave, I made the choice to move on, I made the choice to steal his son. Gosh, since when did I have all the power over life? My answer to this was:

"I was 50% responsible for the demise of our R. I am 100% accountable for what I did that led me there. I then stated that he was granted a choice to rebuild, he choose an alternate route. In effect, that CHOICE contributes to where we are today."

He of course didn't want to talk about that. He is OVER all of this and has let it go. That is a quote out of his own mouth. Yet, he continues to finger point, lay blame, and find fault in everything that I do.

I thought it was pretty ironic how he talked about our custodial arrangement. "I have him one measly day a week, and every other weekend startign friday night, and ending mondaqy morning. Sure, I have the right to exercise an additional weekend....but I haven't done it yet (Since September 2) - because I realize that she has allo that rushing around to do and to take one of her weekends away reduces the amount of quality time she has with DS.

Okay - does ANYONE on this forum see the contradictions here? I'm keeping his son from him and he feels that he has to BEG for his time, YET he doesn't exercise his rights because he feels that I don't get enough QUALITY time with DS.

Someone PLEASE explain this to me? I'm confused.


Anyway - in talking with my IC he tells me that I NEED to get ANGRY at X. He feels that I am turning anger into sadness. That is preventing me from getting to that next step. He reminded me that X is a selfish B-stard. His words, not mine. He asked me to think of all of the things prior to my cheating that hurt me. It's hard to do this because then I feel like I'm in the blame game all over again. Ugh...so frustrated.


Anyway, I needed to unload. I will probably regret that later but maybe someone out there in cyber land has perspectives that I don't have.

Thanks-

God – with – kily

I don’t know your sitch but your H is spoiled and accustomed to getting his way by brow beating you. It’s obvious that his thinking is irrational. He fears that he has lost (or is loosing) control of the sitch.

Your therapist is correct to sat that you need to more aggressively counter his arguments during MC. Don’t let him walk on you. The sooner he understands that his behavior will not be tolerated the quicker he will make change. Sounds like this guy could use some Anger Management counseling to help him learn to express himself appropriately.

H might benefit from medication to ease his anxiety level. He might also be somewhat depressed since vents constantly. Talk to the MC about what I’ve suggested and see if she concurs. If so get him on meds quickly.

Beau

God - within - Kily

OOOPPPPSS Forgot to ask who us the WS and any deatils you care to share.

Beau

Whi is the WS - type0

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by God-within-kily:
<strong>Someone PLEASE explain this to me? I'm confused.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you think of yourself ? Do what is right, he is a selfish [censored]. He just want to to fail ... d@mn if you do it and d@mn if you don't. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Anyway, I needed to unload. I will probably regret that later but maybe someone out there in cyber land has perspectives that I don't have.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you have to appologize to unload ... we are here to share burdens & joys. I think your C try to move you from sad into different stages of greif. You are always resonate between them but getting stuck in any stages is not a good sign.

-rh-

Hi SonoWF-

I am the FWP. We weren't married but were in a very long term relationship.

Thanks for your words. It is hard to deal with this attitude and I am doing the things that I need to do to make myself stronge4r in these types of situations.

RH-
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you think of yourself ? Do what is right, he is a selfish [censored]. He just want to to fail ... d@mn if you do it and d@mn if you don't. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really like the person I am today. I hate that he and I are at war though. I realize that he is using my bad choices as a shield to hide behind. It seems easier to justify his own bad choices because of what I did to him. I've really tried to make amneds, but it's not my place to change his views. Only he can do this and he isn't ready to forgive. There's too much power in hating and anger.

I still feel very yucky when we get into counseling because of the blame game. This time, I simply threw awqay my weapons. I sat and acknowledged all of the ugly things he thinks and says about me. I told him that I acknopwledge and accpet it all. Then I asked him "Now, What do we do with it?"

I guess I'm just tired of the drama. If he wants to hate me and blame me he can. I'm done throwing darts in return. I don't need his respect or freindship. I couldn't have those things in the "R". I certainy will not get them out of the "R".

The reason I felt I might regret posting is that he does know about this site and has actually read my thread at times. I value all of you so much though, that I risk the fall out. You all give me sanity at times when I'm full of doubt about me.

Thanks-

He just kind of sat there with noting to say.

kily,

Many of us communicate via private email and provide support that way specially when SO or OP knows about this site. This is private to you, specially during critical time.

It is too bad tht Ultimate BBS doesn't have security feature to control who get access to your thread, until then just use email.

My exW still with OM and still angry since she is still not happy with her life now and still blame me for it ... I have to protect my self and refuse to be punching bag. I have NC in place. I set CC in very detail, when where and how. Big decisions, such as where to go to school, is communicated via court appointed conselor. The small minor ones I have no choice but to use the kids. Forgiving doesn't mean you have to be doormat ... so does reconsiliation. Draw your boundry and leave it right there until he is ready to deal with you in a proper manner.

Leave him sitting there ALONE and let him stare at himself.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by God-within-kily:
... This time, I simply threw awqay my weapons. I sat and acknowledged all of the ugly things he thinks and says about me. I told him that I acknopwledge and accpet it all. Then I asked him "Now, What do we do with it?"

I guess I'm just tired of the drama. If he wants to hate me and blame me he can. I'm done throwing darts in return ... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">there's a lot that's liberating in handing all that over, yes?

it really was an important part of my personal survival. my wife wanted to blame and be angry. so i let her and i stopped reciprocating. she was plenty angry for the both of us.

i, like you, owned my responsibility, but in giving her possession of all the anger -- i think -- accelerated her own acceptance of responsibility. she had no way to make me the villain.

maybe this will work for you, too. i hope.

in any case, i think you're a model fwp. you provide a valuable insight to so many -- waywards and betrayeds alike.

<small>[ November 17, 2003, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

God-within-kily:

Can I just call you "God" for short? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ...probably not a good idea! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

kily:

"I receive emails questioning why I'm so mean to X. Also inquiry's as to what he's done wrong to have me treat him this way. I wish I understood what drives his thought process."

My best guess would be that it's something like peanut butter that drives his thought processes, something brown with a high viscosity! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

But, wouldn't it be great if all BSs out here could have someone 2 perpe2ally blame for our problems? Oh wait. FWSs are people 2. Whatever people are. ...he isn't over you, regardless of what he says. He's managing 2 avoid THINKING about his role in all this by blaming you. It really is that simple.

"To this day he quotes that I made the choice to leave, I made the choice to move on, I made the choice to steal his son."

And he has made the choice NOT 2 learn anything from HIS past, but be miserable for the rest of his life. And he's the only one that can choose not 2 keep doing this. When he does, you'll know. But it isn't your responsibility 2 figure it out. It's completely unfigureoutable.

"Gosh, since when did I have all the power over life?"

Since you changed your username? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

"My answer to this was:
"I was 50% responsible for the demise of our R. I am 100% accountable for what I did that led me there. I then stated that he was granted a choice to rebuild, he choose an alternate route. In effect, that CHOICE contributes to where we are today."

Indeed. And just 2 show you how ridiculous his thinking is, he missed a golden oppor2nity 2 blame you yet again for more than you deserve - you are 150% responsible for the demise of your R, and he's only 50% responsible. You're THREE TIMES as responsible as he is! No wonder he's such a victim! Look, I'm being silly here, of course (but you probably wouldn't even recognize me if I weren't!). But you've hit the nail on the head. Each of you is responsible for your life choices. Neither is responsible for the others'. You may be responsible for 50%, give or take a few tens of percent, of the downfall of your R, but nevermind the A - it isn't the issue in your R. It certainly isn't NOW. It may have been a big ol' elephant at the time it was happening, but it still wasn't the issue, just the symptom. Your x had the oppor2nity 2 identify the issue, but he's still harping on the symptom. I'm very sorry for your DS, as he's going 2 grow up watching this meaningless blame-fest so long as your X hangs on2 the need 2 perpe2ate it throughout eternity.

Kily: I think we all see the contradictions in what he says. You're not crazy. You're not even GOING crazy (that's MY job!). But he won't stop until he realizes that he needs 2.

Like the joke about the guy hitting his foot with a hammer and screaming "OUCH!" Other guy comes up and asks "If that hurts so much, why do you keep doing it?" Hammer guy responds "Because it feels so good when I stop!" Your X hasn't stopped long enough 2 relish THAT feeling. Self-abuse is all he knows. It's what sustains him. How sad.

-2long

Don't give up.

Beau

K-

I think you are doing exactly what you should be doing. You are accepting your role in the situation, no more, no less. But you do not deserve to be his emotional punching bag. Until he is ready to accept responsibility for his role in things to are in a stalemate. Like others have said, set your boundaries as you don't need this abuse.

W and I are thinking about you, good luck.

All -

Thanks for the responses, I will comment on each when I have more time.

I have a small dilemma that has been transpiring over the last few days and I'm looking for more intelligent ways of dealing with the situation. It appears that what I've been doing isn't working and I need fresh ideas so that this cycle stops.

Ds has expressed some tough things over the last few days. Dad had him since friday and when he came home monday mornng he was angry and difficult to deal with.

After some conflict and down time, we talked. DS expressed that he doesn't want to live with eother parent. He said that he wants to live in jail or in heaven. Well, this hurt to hear and I encouraged him to continue.

Eventually, he opened up and stated that he was tired of going back and forth between us. He wants his mom and dad together and hates this situation. Completely understandable and I tried to be as understanding and supportive as possible.

Well, his father asked if I was in agreement with signing DS up for ice skating. I told him that I needed to think about it and after hearing Ds talk the other night, I told X that DS is hurting and that he is having a hard time with this sepparate houses thing.

I then told him that I didn't think that DS should be stressed right now.

I think that driving 30 minutes 1 way to an activity would be too much added into already driving that distance 2 times a week to go to karate.

The response I received from X was a two page letter that outlined my faults and failures from the time we had a relationship. In that letter, he expressed that his current "R" wasn't a choice he made but something I drove him too. He finger pointed at me and said that I destroyed the family single handedly.

He said that he could look DS in the eye and tell him that he did everything he could to save it. Then in the next sentence he said that he is bothered by my attitude that he had a choice and that the current situation is a culmination of both of our choices.

I wonder if he could look DS in the eye and tell him that he wanted me to abort him and that the only reason that DS is here is because I finally stood up to him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> How easily we forget the seeds that we plant.

Some points were definately valid, others weren't 100% accurate. I composed a response and then deleted it. In effect, he hasn't heard from me since.

Now- Ds came home this morning and stated that his father expressed that he felt very asd when DS spent a lot of time with me. He told DS that he would be talkig to me abut the problem.

I was initially upset by this, but after time, I realized that X is in a lot of pain. He keeps this pattern going of not getting his way, then the blaming letter, then the pulling DS into the middle.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I don't want to dance anymore. There were many things that happened that I could have thrown back at him, but for what reason.

So my question is: How can I effectively diffuse this blame cycle. It's obvious that X needs to be heard but at the same time, he isn't facing anything that he's responsible for.

Any words of wisdom?

kily:

"The response I received from X was a two page letter that outlined my faults and failures from the time we had a relationship. In that letter, he expressed that his current "R" wasn't a choice he made but something I drove him too. He finger pointed at me and said that I destroyed the family single handedly. "

Groan!!!

I think a response is in order. But don't give him anything like what he wants (a submissive kily, taking all blame). You're "DVd". Ol' 2long's going 2 recommend something unorthodox here, which may be the wrong thing 2 do. But, why not respond (not react) with a 2-page letter telling him how you feel about the si2ation. Don't parry his attack, ignore it in fact. EDUCATE HIM. He'll ignore your efforts anyway, but it won't be anything he isn't already doing, and it might give you the chance 2 tell him how you're leading your life (not even relationship-wise, just spiri2ally and philosophicall).

Who knows? If you respond 2 these attacks with nothing but thoughtful kindness (and guidance), maybe he'll wake up some day.

It's clear now 2 me that he can't let go of you. His GF is a "fix". I'm sorry for her (and him for living this way).

-ol' 2long