From your experiences or from reading, have you determined that people with addictive personality types are more likely to have difficulty in ending an A?

For example, if an individual is a smoker who finds it difficult or impossible to quit, a gambler, an overeater, or has any other addictive behavior patterns s/he is unable to control, will the same lack of control rule any attempts to end the A and go NC? Will such a person try over and over again to end contact, only to find they are back in the A?

And if successful in ending the A, does such a personality usually replace the addiction of the A with another addiction, and if so, is it possible to channel the replacement addiction into something mentally/emotionally/physically healthy -- i.e., exercise, sports?

I would be interested in your thoughts.

*S*

Sparkle, I haven't seen any research on this, but I tend to think there is something to it. Lately, I've been thinking about how my WAH tends to do things with a compulsive edge--he's a workaholic, goes whole hog into something and can't switch course easily, gets obsessed with a subject, etc. Hadn't thought of this as addictive until a friend who is is a recovering alcoholic mentioned it. He said it's not unusual for someone in recovery from an addiction to find a replacement addiction - an alcoholic who turns into a compulsive runner, for example.

I think that one of my WAH's barriers to returning to our relationship is his compulsive nature. Don't folks get addicted to something that (initially, anyway) feels good and acts as an escape? And isn't denial a component of that?

Sparkle

In my limited experience, I don’t think that it is mandatory that people have an addictive personality to have an affair. While a person with an addictive personality most certainly can have an affair their “thing” is their drug of choice. My dad did not have an addictive personality but had a series of affairs over many years. He once told me that he didn’t want to sleep with every woman; he just wanted to know “that he could.” He had major self-esteem problems.

Beau

Thanks for your responses.

Jazmom...interesting thoughts. I will add the compulsive behavior into my thought processes. I take it your WH is absent from your life/home?

SonofWF...I agree that one doesn't necessarily have to have that type personality in order to have an affair. On the other hand, for those that do have such personalities - do they struggle more with ending the affair than others? And do they constantly find some other "high" to fill it's void?

*S*

My own experience, both as a WS and as a BS, is that it's not necessasry to have an addictive personality to become embroiled in an affair. Neither of us has addictive personalities; I've participated in various controlled activities (gambling, alcohol, other substances) and have not become addicted to any of them. My WP doesn't touch alcohol or caffeine and is entirely disinterested in other activities that can be habit-forming.

My sense of my WP's behavior is that she experienced a sense of freedom and independence in her relationship with OM that she had never felt before. She was "breaking the rules" and finding out that there didn't appear to be consequences. She was doing what made her feel good instead of following society's strictures. For someone who spent 34 years being a good member of society who always did what was "right" and what she was "supposed" to do, I suspect that was tremendously liberating.

I know it was for me. And it took me years to learn the downsides of it, the emptiness of all that I was doing, the sadness of being unable to live my life in the open and above-board. I do not know whether WP will ever learn the downsides.

For me these days, life is a lot about contemplation and my own center, and learning that happiness is more about how I react and live than about the people around me and what they do.

And at the same time, my poor unenlightened self still takes a great deal more joy in a laughing baby than in a barfing cat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Fascinating topic and interesting posts by everyone. I am no expert, but based on a lot og reading and some personal soul searching, I will share a few thoughts.

Addictions of any type are simply a form of escape from reality and creating one's own sense of reality. I think it applies to everything. Many claim self esteem problems are a driving cause for addictions and I can agree with that in many respects.

I think it is more proper to apply the term addictive traits as it varies with person to person and addiction to addiction. Some people are hopelessly prone to addiction to most everything -- smoking, alcohol, drugs, gambling, affairs, etc. They either have little control or are desperately searching for comfort in any form possible.

I don't know if there is a parallel between a person being addicted to a particular practice (gambling, excessive exercise,etc.) or substance (tobacco, alcohol, drugs, etc.) and the propensity for having an affair. However, the addictive trait exists.

Personally, I found that when I felt the best about myself and felt I was "in control" of my life, the addictive traits were eliminated. I was eating healthy, exercising and enjoying a wonderful relationship with my spouse and feeling very positive about my career.

Certainly mental health is a critical key, in my opinion. It's a fragile and delicate balance for everyone -- some more so than others obviously.

OK. Let me try this again, 'cause I think we kind of have a chicken and egg thing going on here.

Rather than looking at whether those with addictive personalities are more prone to having an affair...

Let's assume for one moment that the addictive personality is in an affair...

Now, does that individual, by nature of his/her addictive tendencies, have a more difficult time than a non-addictive personality in ending the affair? Based on your experience or that of others?

*S*

If the WS and OP are addicted to drugs, alcohol or sex and are sharing the addiction as part of the affair , then they may be unwilling to give up the affair. I think their "drug of choice" is driving the relationship at that point.

In my experience, if you can get the WS off their "drug of choice" , than the affair is much easier to manage.

As long as the WS is "using" their thinking is unreliable.

Beau

Sparkle:

I don't mean to over-simplify the issue, but in answering your question, I would say yes. It's a process of

1) the person recognizing the addiction and damage it is doing to their life;

2) the willingness to change and meet a goal that is more desirable than the short-term gains or relief offered by the addiction itself;

3) taking positive steps, however small, break the addiction and change their lifestyle.

The small steps lead to success and build confidence. That's critical. I guess no one can really judge other than the person involved.

Okay, I'll play.

I have known for a long time that I have an addictive personality.

All the work that I had done battling (and prevailing over) addictions certainly came in handy in ending the affair. That, and prayer.

I honestly don't know that there are any useful correlatives. We're all weak to some degree--what degree of weakness constitutes an addictive personality and/or a predisposition to adultery?

....and prayer. Very important.

Prayer is the most important because it requires humility. And humility is absolutely essential in recovering from any kind of addiction.

That's why the 12-step programs require that:
1) you admit you are powerless
2) that you acknowledge a higher power

The act of seeking pleasure of any kind (in drugs, sex, other people) is inherently arrogant and self-deceiving.

In humility, you can self-confront.

<small>[ November 16, 2003, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: terminator ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by *Sparkle*:
<strong> Jazmom...interesting thoughts. I will add the compulsive behavior into my thought processes. I take it your WH is absent from your life/home? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, he's gone physically and emotionally. That is, he's apparently gone emotionally; I'm still wallowing.

To clarify, I don't think those qualities in him actually led to the A but they do contribute to his inability and unwillingness to step back and think clearly. I think of the A as a way he chose to relieve stress and not deal with the real issues of his life. In the past, he used work, now he uses the OW. It's like he's dancing as fast as he can to avoid stepping in his own mess, ya know. Dance and deny, so to speak!

Thanks, guys. Some interesting food for thought. I don't know who is speaking from theory and who from personal knowledge of an acquaintance and who from personal experience of their own, but good thoughts anyhow.

SonofWF
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my experience, if you can get the WS off their "drug of choice" , than the affair is much easier to manage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And if the "drug of choise" is the affair itself? How then does one get the individual off the drug?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As long as the WS is "using" their thinking is unreliable. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep...fogtalk...fogthink.

Foolish Bird

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">taking positive steps, however small, break the addiction and change their lifestyle.

The small steps lead to success and build confidence. That's critical. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you be more specific? What types of small steps are you talking about and how do they break the addiction? Everything I have read says small steps are ineffective, that breaking the addiction requires more of a cold-turkey stopping approach.

terminator


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We're all weak to some degree--what degree of weakness constitutes an addictive personality and/or a predisposition to adultery? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent question...anyone care to comment?

jazmom

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think those qualities in him actually led to the A but they do contribute to his inability and unwillingness to step back and think clearly. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is exactly the issue here. Those traits that contribute to the addictive personality may keep them in the affairs longer, have more relapses, false recoveries, etc.

*S*

Sparkle,
My FWH has an addictive personality and was involved in an affair that I thought would never end. In counselling, the counsellor remarked to me more than once that my h has a very addictive personality.(He's very into whatever he's into- he's a workaholic but occasionally replaces that with his current "addiction",whether that's another person or activity)So, in answer to your question, YES, I believe addictive personalities do have a tougher time letting go of affairs. By the way, it did finally end. It just took a lot of time, relapses and heartache to get there.

<small>[ November 17, 2003, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>

My 2 cents.

Our MC says H is a "thrill-seeker". Always looking for the next rush or thing that will make him feel good. If he doesn't go to IC to find out why, he will always replace an old addiction with a new one (alcohol, affairs, lottery tickets, etc.)

H's IC says H has an addictive personality. I assume both C's mean about the same thing.

Now that H is in AA and not drinking, I can see that he suffers from very low self-esteem, which makes me agree with SOWF's earier post about major self-esteem problems.


I also agree with FB's post:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it is more proper to apply the term addictive traits as it varies with person to person and addiction to addiction. Some people are hopelessly prone to addiction to most everything -- smoking, alcohol, drugs, gambling, affairs, etc. They either have little control or are desperately searching for comfort in any form possible. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, this will really make it confusing. For both A's of my H, he immediately went NC within hours of me finding out about them. And, he never appeared to go through withdrawal or acted like it was hard for him to go NC.

It didn't seem hard for H to end one, but he's been having A's for over 20 years. He had two in his first M (one for 10 years) and now two in our M. It seems hard for H to stay out of an A as opposed to ending an A.

sss

<small>[ November 17, 2003, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

S

ACA's (adult children of Alcoholics/dysfunctional famlies) have with in them some of these characteristics
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">constantly seek approval and affirmation</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">so if they are getting that from an A it would be hard to end the A.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They are extreamly loyal even when the loyalty is undeserved</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tend to lock themselves in a course of action w/o giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or consequences</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
taken from Janet Woititz Adult Children of Alcoholics, Health Communications, Inc

These among other characteristics were/are very helpful for me since I am an ACA. In understanding the whys of my A. They also helped my W to have a better perspective of me.
H

<small>[ November 17, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>

Interesting discussion.

I'd never thought of H as addictive, but I think I got that impression from the fact that he hates taking pills, etc., in case 'he gets to need them and can't do without'. I wonder now if, in fact, he's trying to avoid addictive tendencies. I know that in the past he's been a smoker, a heavy drinker, and I now know that he was hooked (pardon the pun) on prostitutes for years.

He's always been compulsive about activities - work, hobbies - and when he's in his obsessed state, it's almost impossible to get his attention. This has caused us huge pain. I express a need calmly, then more loudly, then with some force, and finally with anger. The cycle can take weeks, even months. It's at this point that I get his attention, and to him it looks as if I've leapt straight into anger. He's beginning to recognise and acknowledge how hard it is to get through to him. But I'm still not sure how to deal with this.

OW also claimed to have been addicted to substances and activities in the past. An affair with two addictive personalities muct be like a black hole...

Assuming that the addictiveness comes from a need to self-medicate, how does the addictive person deal with it? AA, etc. deal with specific addictions, not a general tendency to lean on something for relief.

TA

I didn't read all the responses but I will just give a straight answer to your question that I think your asking .

FWS ,, yes has an addictive personality .

Yes it took very long to go N/C .


Now do I think you are on to something , yes I have thought about this many of times while reading hear . This is a very good topic.

If I got the main idea of what your really saying .

3,

Wow...looked at your timeline. Yes, it did take him a long time!

Yes, I agree. That is why I started this thread. It just seems to me that it is something we need to be aware of, and that perhaps if you are in Plan B and your WS is the addictive type, you might just need to brace yourself for the long haul...if you can, that is. Otherwise, face the fact that you will arrive at a place when you cannot any longer wait and you will start to think about a new life without your marriage.

*S*