I feel so... dumb writing this but perhaps there is something therapeutic in admitting that I've been struggling I miss appointments, forget to do things, lose things and it makes it difficult to sleep. I am on anti-D's, we are seeing a MFC. Sometimes I think that I am talking too much about the past. I feel that if I just stop all this these meetings and this board that she,OW, will just become a distant memory. I am not going to call her but I have to change what I am doing. The depression is just unbearable. Sorry this is such a downer.
H

<small>[ December 04, 2003, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>

Hi Hiker,

Just want to encourage you to hang in there. It will get easier. You must believe that there are brighter days ahead. Please don't give up. Continue to do right, and someday you will look back and be so glad you did. God bless you!

How long have you been on anti-D's? Sounds like you're still very depressed. I'm taking Paxil CR, and it works great. My H is now living with OW and I can hardly remember his name. Also read a book called "Torn Asunder" by Dave Carder that talks about "the message of the affair". It's pretty good and says that you need to understand the message of the A to fully reconcile and not have problems again. Good luck, I wish every WS was trying as hard as you. Hang in there.

Hiker,

You're doing everything right. All I can say is to pray harder. You only need a way to soothe yourself while time passes; that is the only thing that cures. Believe me.

Transform the urges to contact her into a one-way message: pray for her well-being, separate from you.

That's all I can say right now except that I admire you very, very much for your efforts, for which I am certain there will be rewards. I know it's hard and that's why I write to you.

Hiker,

gosh, I'm so sorry for you right now.
You are giving your best and you have every reason to feel prowd about yourself, Hiker. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You might want to try the following: When you feel that a "down" is coming up, "grab" your wife (if she is around) and hug her, hold her and let yourself be held by her too.
You might want to explain this to your wife abit so that she understands what this is about.
(Otherwise, she might think you're NUTS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I hope you understand what I am trying to explain to you.

This is something that has helped me throughout our complete "recovery".
Even though I'm the BS, I think this too will also help you as WS.

I told my WS that when I was starting to feel "Pain" coming up, I didn't want to talk or discuss. I really just needed to be held and hugged. I needed to feel "pampered" and "taken cared of".
I needed "warmth" and "understanding without words".

At first my WS didn't understand what I meant but within time, he too really enjoyed this. It drew us back together again and made us feel connected.
I'm now aware that at the beginning of our recoery, my WS too was going through "Withdrawel" and he too was "missing" OW.

At that time, I wasn't aware of this but the "holding & hugging" helped both of us. It seemed to have a therapedic affect on the both of us.

Hiker, you're going to make it, no matter how hard it is.
Live every day the best you can and try to concentrate on now. Life is absolutely too precious just to dwell on the past.

I know, sometimes it's just so hard to do and yet it's possible.

Take care and hug your wife!!!!

bb <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Transform the urges to contact her into a one-way message: pray for her well-being, separate from you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never underestimate the power of prayer, Hiker. When it seems that everything is going awful, God will always be there!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You might want to try the following: When you feel that a "down" is coming up, "grab" your wife (if she is around) and hug her, hold her and let yourself be held by her too.
You might want to explain this to your wife abit so that she understands what this is about.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When my WH and I are into recovery, this is what I hope he does when he wants to contact OW. I have told him that all he has to do it hug me, call me. He could write me a letter or email, pick up the phone and send me flowers, anything that demonstrates that he loves me. You could be creative. This would keep your brain occupied with thinking of something wonderful to do for your wife.

Hang in there, Hiker! The path to a wonderful, fulfilling marriage is yours if you want it bad enough ... there may just be some rocks you have to climb over along the way.

Hiker -

Just remember that contacting OW will not only take you back to square one as far as your withdrawal goes, but it can also take you back to the original feelings of guilt, shock, etc, that you felt on DDay with your W. Not a comfortable place to be.

In other words, chances are that contacting her will make you feel WORSE instead of better.

God bless you as you go through this. Know that people are praying for you, thinking about you, and have once been where you are (some are still there and holding on as well). You are not alone. Hang in there.

Sometimes I try to compare this struggle with when I started running for exercise at a local school. I was huffing and puffing and as this fellow passed me he said "stay with it it doesn't get any easier but it won't get any harder".

The AD that I take is Lexipro. I am going to give it a little longer and then reevaluate. Dr has said that no pill will get me through what I am going through.

I do try to remain as "close" as I can to my wife. Hugs, holding hands, kisses etc. I don't say too much when I am down like this because It brings her down knowing that I still struggle over these feelings .

I do have things to help distract me I am just in a rut right now.
H

<small>[ December 04, 2003, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>

I understand what each of you is telling me. I have done most of these things and I will continue to do them. I do not know why this is so difficult to surmount.

I don't want to slip...I know that I will not feel good about me if I do fall back and any contact by me to her will turn out bad. I cannot chance it for my own sake and for my wife's sake

BB It's too late W already thinks I am nuts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Hell she knows it.

I guess if I were an alcoholic I would be struggeling with taking a drink. OW is my "drink" Right now I need for you to be my "sponsers"

H

<small>[ December 04, 2003, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>

HIKER,

I too am sorry for where you feel you are..but I really believe that it is you alone that keeps you where you are because it has become familiar and a way to identify yourself...

I believe that you need to look at what you are gaining hanging on to the OW as if it just ended when the truth is you are far from a fresh ending..

(correct me if I am wrong...but I don't think I am.)

What is the mantle you wear and gain from being a victim to the powers of this OW...and what gifts and joys and life lay right in front of you that you are too blind to see since you spend your whole time looking back..

If I was sitting next to you in a loss of relationship group I would sneak in a two by four and thwack you on the head with it... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
with frustration and love ofcourse..

I think you do need to stop the loss of relationship group and decide that life is precious and short...and that your wife deserves better if you are not going to commit to anything but grieving over the past...and the decent thing to do would be to set her free...

Your actions verge on cruelness in my opinion...and though you may not mean them to be..
you are the only one who can change them....
and change them you can..
because it is you who decides to live each day the same as you have been...
no one else....

You grasp tightly to you all that has past...and you are missing out on each day...
and no one to blame but you...
sorry to be a bummer..

we move on by picking ourselves up and doing..
thought patterns though not necessarily controllable are given the amount of priority by us through choice....
So the only reason why you think so much about the OW is because you feed and entertain these thoughts as if they hold great magicalypower over you..but the truth is the thoughts occur so frequently because you allow them...

but I believe life is too grand to be wasted on what is not...for whatever reason it is not...


ARK

Hiker, you said ...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am on anti-D's, we are seeing a MFC, I am in a loss of relationship group. Sometimes I think that I am talking too much about the past. I feel that if I just stop all this these meetings and this board that she,OW, will just become a distant memory. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I read this the first time, I knew something about it bothered me. It wasn't until I read ^^ark's^^...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think you do need to stop the loss of relationship group and decide that life is precious and short...and that your wife deserves better if you are not going to commit to anything but grieving over the past...and the decent thing to do would be to set her free...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...that I think I figured it out.

It seems to me, IMVHO, that if you are in a loss of relationship group you are talking about and thinking about the OW while preparing to go to meeting, kissing your W goodbye, driving there, walking in, having the meeting, walking out, driving home and getting into bed with your W.

Maybe in a round-about-way this is almost like "contact." A loss of relationship group doesn't seem like the place you should be. If I would have to name the types of people that would be there I would say people that have lost family or friends due to death, a "falling out" with immediate family members, or a failed marriage. I could be wrong, though. That has been known to happen once or twice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

What do other people think??

Hiker

Your feelings about OW are exactly what an alcoholic feels for booze. It’s a love hate relationship. The only to way to stop drinking is to stop. You must stop obsessing over OW. You’re driving yourself nuts!

In AA there is a saying…”fake it till you can make it.” It means that you act the way you should live until it becomes natural.

Stop going over the same ground day after day. Just stop! Stop thinking about the A, stop talking about it constantly, and stop writing about it daily. Do something that captures your complete attention.

Exercise always works for me. I find that the more I exercise the less I think about what bothers me. Some days I can run 3 miles and be OK. Another day I have to run 10 miles to be OK. Some days I punch a heavy bag for an hour. I do what ever it takes to put me in control of my thoughts and emotions.

Exercise every day for a couple of weeks and see if you don’t feel better.

I am pulling for you.

Beau

Hiker,

what's up?? How are you????

bb

Hello

I think that each of you have expressed some valuable things to me. But I must say I most appreciate Ark's thoughts on the matter.

To Sonof let me say that I am a very active person and exercise is a great diversion for me. I exercise 4 or 5 times per week and most days I leave the gym dripping, my wife says "yuk" when I get home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . I know that if I do not exercise that I am opening myself to even greater depression.

When I have a question I do look forward to hearing from you especially BlondB, Terminator, Stung and even Ark with the 2x4's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I feel your caring spirits and have a genuine desire to help someone in need. Words of encouragement from Believer,Leah and Rose are always just that. I will do my best to follow your advice. Ark said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">we move on by picking ourselves up and doing..
thought patterns though not necessarily controllable are given the amount of priority by us through choice....
So the only reason why you think so much about the OW is because you feed and entertain these thoughts as if they hold great magicalypower over you..but the truth is the thoughts occur so frequently because you allow them...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It does seem that what I need to do is to just drop the subject and that my head will clear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . What drove me to the "Loss of Relationship" group was a chance sighting of OW on the freeway...how sick is that? It was like the whole process started over again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . Again another reason I thought the "group" was good for me. Right now the counselor is trying to help me to understand why the A happened and why I have this "need" or I felt this unfulfilment in my life. It seems to me if I can get to the underlying issue(s) that I can prevent this from ever happening again; that I will be able to devote all of my energy to my W where it belongs. Sometimes I feel like a "barnacle" and attach myself to whomever expresses any kind of caring thought for me.

Besides the "outdoors", cycling, climbing I am a musician. My wife had a "worship" music recital this last weekend and we did play together for the performance, it was a blessing. I take great pleasure in just being with my family and grandson (16 months...born on myyy birthday... how cool is that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ) So I do have so much to be thankful, especially that I have not lost it all because of this dumb A.

Just living life sometimes has become such a chore since it seems that I have so many barriers to overcome <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . I want to knock some of them down or at least know how to address them when confronted so that I can be "whole again". Maybe the answer as StungBAB said is in prayer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never underestimate the power of prayer, Hiker. When it seems that everything is going awful, God will always be there!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Much of what I've felt revolves around abandonment and rejection and I am trying to rekindle my faith in Him. I've allowed people to squeeze the hope out of me.

I know this is long but I want each of you to have a picture of what I am thinking and the process that I feel is necessary in order to recover from this disaster. I welcome your thoughts and even your 2x4's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
H

<small>[ December 04, 2003, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>

Well, Hiker,

you sound as if you are heading "upwards" again.

We all have our "ups and downs.

I went through a very serious "depressive time" about 1 years after d-d.
When I look back I see how terrible it was and yet I think it was a very important time in my life.

I don't know if I had to go throught "depression" but at least when I look back, I can see how "great" I'm doing now compaired to then. Well, if that's something positive, I'll take that!

Maybe we have to experience depression in order to be able to "crawl out" of a real terrible and traumatic experience and become stronger. Who knows?

Anyways, you sound much stronger already. Keep strong Hiker and don't forget to hug your wife even if she knows you're NUTS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yikes I am on a rollercoaster and it isn't much fun. Somehow I end up stuck in the mud without a real explanation as to why I am there. I just know that I am stuck. For others the answers seem simple for me the answers are usually complex. I don't know if I make them that way or if I just try to understand too much. I did learn somethings about me from the OW...She would say that I "think too much" and I would have to agree with her. Sometimes it's better to leave some doors closed.
H

Hiker,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I did learn somethings about me from the OW...She would say that I "think too much" and I would have to agree with her. Sometimes it's better to leave some doors closed.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree with you, Hiker. You are now learning to "think" and during your affair "you surely weren't thinking too much".
It is not true what OW told you, she was trying to make you feel good. Nothing more and nothing less.

Do you honestly think that a woman that is involved with a married man would encourage him to think????
Do you honestly believe that you learned something from OW?????
She was actually trying to disencourage you from thinking and your bad conciounce.


Just try to see the things as they are. If you would of been "thinking too much" you wouldn't of ended up where you were or?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The only door that should of stayed "closed" was the OW door. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hiker, take it easy and don't be so hard on yourself. I just had to get this outta my system. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

bb

KA boom
I walked into that didn't I as he walks away with his tail between his legs.
H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Hiker,

did I "shake" something? I hope you understand me right. (I always seem to worry about being misunderstood )

Hiker I just wanted to add that every person is different. I too am a "deep thinker" and I too tend to think alot.

I've learned one thing through my WS affair.

I've learned that that fact that I have always done alot of "too much thinking" has kept me away from trouble and doing things that will "kick me in my §ss".

I've always tryed to see things from both sides and this unfortunately involves "alot of thinking".
But I don't think that this is a "wrong thing" to do.

If all people would do this the world would be wonderful.

HIker and still I'd like to tell you, don't be so hard on yourself. And one more "piece of my opinion".
If you think about OW and your affair, it will possibly never make sense. The longer you have "NO CONTACT" the less sense it will make to you.

"Feelings and Emotions" hardly ever make sense.

This is why it is extremely important for you and your wife to have "deep talking sessions" so that you can share your feelings with her.

This is important. It's important for you and your wife to learn to talk about your feelings without feeling "silly" about yourself.

I hope you get that.

Every marriage creates a pattern within the years. It's hard work to change this pattern and yet, it sure is possible and it's actually very exciting. You get to know things about your spouse that you never would of thought were possible.

My WS and I have known each other for almost 30 years now. We too created a pattern in behaviour. It took alot of courage for me to express my true feelings to my WS without feeling like a fool.

I had to learn to explain what I really needed and what I was craving for. This opened doors and WOW did this open my eyes.

I had to learn to talk about "my inner child" and that I need to feel "taken cared of like a little girl" at times. I had to learn to say that I am actually "scared" at times and I want to feel like I could just fall back and my WS would catch me.

These were things that made me feel like a fool at times but once I started to explain this to my Ws , he too became couragous and was able to tell me what his true feelings were.

This was something that was easy for him to do in his affair.
It was all "new" for him and therefore he was able to "show himself" as "someone different". Well, OW never knew my WS as I did so it was as if he was able to "be someone else" without the "relationship pattern" that we had developed within the years.

In our situation if he would of been that way with me, he would of appeared to be a stranger.I would of been "questioning" alot of things about him.
But OW got to know my WS the way he was showing himself. If OW would of known him the way he was with me, he would of been a stranger for her. (well, he was a stranger but she will never know about this)

So now in our relationship, we have learned to talk. We have learned to become aware "what we really want" and "what feelings we want to have fullfilled".

My WS wants to feel "important" and he wants to feel "admired". He wants to feel "like my hero" and he wants this with "enthusiasm".

Hiker, I think this is absolutely ok and I understand my WS completely. It's just the fact that a man can get this from his wife, it just has to be based on "reality" and not on "fantasy".
This is where the WS seem to have a problem. They get these feelings from OW and their "love hormone" is on the go.

They "split" OW from reality. They get these feeling "fullfilled" from OW and they believe this is what life is about.

But do you honestly believe this is true????

Come on.............

It feels good as long as "reality" isn't involved. The better you get to know one another, the less "excitement" is left.
Because as soon as "reality" is involved it just isn't the same.

I'd say that during an affair the WS are craving for these feelings.
Their "taker" is on the go. They want to get these feelings fullfilled "full blast" and when they look on the otherside with their spouses, they begin to compair.

Well, of course compairing the situation with OW/WS and the situation with BS/WS isn't reality.
The fantasy world seems to be the "bowl of chocolate" and who wouldn't want that.

Who wouldn't want to feel "admired, understood, loved, sexy, handsome, precious, sensual and and and...)
Both BS and WS want this, it's just a matter of communicating and expressing what you want. And learning to "mix" this with reality.

One example that might help you out a little.

I am able to tell my Ws (and I'm honest) that he is handsome and the best man on earth. I can tell him this honestly "in the morning" right after waking up when he has "bad breath" and even after he might of "farted". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

It's not that I think that bad breath and .... are great things, it's just that I know and I love my WS with all of his good sides and his "less" good sides.

Imagine this during and affair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
You meet one another and the betrayer has "bad breath" and then begins to "fart"!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm sorry that this has gotten so long.

Hiker, try to concentrate on what you now have. You surely didn't have the "complete" piece during your affair. You had only what the both of you "wanted to give" and that was surely not enough.

Share your thoughts with your wife and enjoy your grandchild with "grandma".
This is what you and your wife have accomplisched in life. This is what has grown through the love that you and your wife have shared.

This is so wonderful and it's so precious.

Hiker, stand up- shake your feathers and "dive into life"!!!!!! You have so many wonderfull things around you. Open your eyes and enjoy what you have, NOW!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

bb

Hi Hiker,

I'm two years out and still having a few tough moments. This week has been tough. Sometimes I still want to call or write...but I know I can't...I won't.

It really does get easier. You're still WAY to close to it. I think you might be expecting too much of yourself too soon.

When was the last time you had a really bad stomach virus that made you throw up and dry heave? Remember how out of control that felt? It owned you. All you could do was ride it out and try to take care of yourself as best you could.

I think this is similar. You're going to have these feelings you can't stop. But know they will become less frequent and less intense as you get better.

One thing I was curious about. Are you taking the anti-d's as part of an integrated therapy?

The worst mistake I made was having the family doc prescribe anti-d's without going to talk therapy. I'd recommend finding a good therapist and see him pretty often for the next few weeks.

Again, don't be so hard on yourself.

Low