Hi,

I was impressed with your replys to Fighter's thread. I have been following his story. I also totatlly agree with you all about ZERO contact w/OW for him.

I have asked you to come here because I have an ongoing thread which I would like your comments and advice on. My thread is titled: Meeting OW for 1st time soon...what do I say/not say and do/not do?

I have really received some good replies, but as SBAB replied to me, an extra couple set of eyes would be helpful.

I would appreciate it if you get the time, please read my whole thread and provide whatever comments you can. I am very excited about the progress my WH has possibly made, but only if it is genuine progress and not game playing. But that is the big question here, is my WH playing manipulation games or is he seriously possibly coming out of fog slowly?

Please help if you can. Thanks.

FF

<small>[ December 30, 2003, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: foreverfaithful ]</small>

Foreverfaithful,

I read your other thread and just wanted to ask you a few things that are not clear for me.


How old are you and WS?
How long have you been married??
How old are the kids?
How old is OW??
How long has your WS been involved in affair???
Has he talked about divorce?

Please just give me a quick review, otherwise I think I understand what you are pointing out.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

hug ya
bb

oppps, think a few questions are already answered. I just read them......... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

blondblossom,

Thanks.

To answer the remaining questions, OW is also 34y/o. The A began in 06/02 at a huge annual weekend music concert. OW was a stranger at that time. The first D-Day was 02/03. I forgave and we went on, made mistake of not getting MC right away. 2nd D-Day was 07/16/03. WH said he and OW saw eachother at the same concert again in 06/03 and resumed where they left off last year. WH still swears today that they did not have ANY communication between 6/02 and 6/03 which I know to be a lie by watching his nonverbal behavior when asked the question. On 7/03 D-Day, husband said we can't work things out and he wants to leave. To my knowledge as of 07/03, they have only seen and slept w/eachother for 6 days, and WH said they're soulmates.

Little History here. On 9/2/03 we had counseling and WH was no where near a decision to work on us. I sensed he was going to leave me for the OW, so I spoke with my attorney. On 9/8/03 I informed the OW's husband who was basically clueless and appreciative of my call. That did not make the OW happy at all that I was the one that told her spouse. On 9/9/03, on the advice from my attorney (which I agonized over), I closed a home equity line of credit which my WH was going to use for down pymt. on his new house. WH calls immediately and asks whats up and why. I said my atty. said we should not take on anymore debt since he doesn't know what he wants. My WH said "Well, we ARE getting a divorce" We had 1 or 2 heated arguments on the phone that day. WH called me uncooperative which set me off yelling into the phone. We still went to counseling that night, but never made it into the room with the counselor. My WH provoked me and goated me until I lost it. I slapped and hit him a couple of times and screamed at him. WH called the police and I was arrested. The next day I arrived home to find every financial paper in our house gone, our computer, and all weapons etc. I had the locks changed the very next day. I also filed for divorce then, but only since he said we are getting one. I thought why not start the process myself.

My WH is currently living 30 minutes from me. He bought the house in mid Oct. and the OW moved in the next week with her daughter from her marriage. So, yes, OW left her H relatively soon after I told him about the A. Here is our relationship before the A. We married fresh out of college, had a lot of fun. Once the 2nd kid was born, this became the starting point (which I only found out recently) of his unhappiness. Parenting was demanding more of me which since he didn't help too much I thus ended up carrying the brunt of the parenting and household duties. We had a 3rd kid then. He was not as enthused to have another as I, but I even struggled with the decision. Then things really started to fade. He lost his job 9 months after the 3rd arrived and he emotionally went downhill after that.

My WH does have visitation with the kids every Wed. night for 3 hours and every other weekend.
I am increasingly becoming curious as to if the grass on the other side is turning yellow at all. What I do know is that the OW's 9yo kid is an only child and is getting a wake up call to how young 3yo's get into their things. This doesn't seem to sit well w/OW's kid.

What do I want? Well, at first after my arrest, I didn't want reconciliation, but after going through 6/10 anger management sessions, my heart is rekindling or softening again and me signing those temp. papers was difficult. Since then, I have missed him greatly and am seeing how difficult this is on my kids upon returning from his house each time, is almost unbearable.

I feel I want to stop the D filing process.

Wow FF. That's quite a story. So basically the A has been going on for about 1 1/2 years and they've been living together for a little over a month, correct? Just out of curiosity, who owns the house your H or is it H and OW? Do you live in a community property state?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> On 9/9/03, on the advice from my attorney (which I agonized over), I closed a home equity line of credit which my WH was going to use for down pymt. on his new house. WH calls immediately and asks whats up and why. I said my atty. said we should not take on anymore debt since he doesn't know what he wants.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent decision. Clearly shows that your survival instincts are intact and working.

Here's my 02. H and OW were deep in the FOG during the course of the A. Now that they are living together, reality will start to bite especially if he has not recovered from his emotional slide due to the loss of his job, etc.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am increasingly becoming curious as to if the grass on the other side is turning yellow at all. What I do know is that the OW's 9yo kid is an only child and is getting a wake up call to how young 3yo's get into their things. This doesn't seem to sit well w/OW's kid.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It might be a little early since they'v eonly been living together about 2 months. But once the honeymoon period wears off, I suspect H and OW will get a big dose of reality. It's a fairly safe assumption that H and OW will start to experience behavior problems with her son. If you H could not manage your relationship with his own three bio kids, I willing to bet my last dollar he's going to have even more of a problem trying to step-parent OW's 9yo and be a part-time father to his own children.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do I want? Well, at first after my arrest, I didn't want reconciliation,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand and this is normal.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but after going through 6/10 anger management sessions, my heart is rekindling or softening again and me signing those temp. papers was difficult.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What temp papers are your referring to?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Since then, I have missed him greatly and am seeing how difficult this is on my kids upon returning from his house each time, is almost unbearable. I feel I want to stop the D filing process. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You filed at a time when your emotions were running very high and your decision to file was based on emotion rather than rationale. Now that you've had a cooling off period, and some counseling you're regretting your impulsive decision to file. I thoroughly understand. Have you discussed this with your attorney yet? Where does your D stand? Is there a property settlement? is it no-fault?

I did exactly this same thing. In my case, however there was no division of property since H abandoned us. I filed, asked for child support and all property. Since we're a no-fault state he had to sign. He did not sign and I could have had a default judgement, however it disturbed me that if this is what he wanted he would not sign the papers and send them back. I asked my attorney to postpone the hearing date and wrote my H a short letter explaining that if this was his choice so be it, I would not contest it, but he would either have to sign the papers or file the D himself. To make a long story short, we are 1 year into recovery now. (Read my story below).

If you're not comfortable going ahead with the D, speak with your attorney about buying yourself some time. Then allow yourself some time to do some really introspective thinking about what you want. If you delay D, and H wants to know why, just let him know that you are having some mixed feelings and need some time. No need to go into details right away. Open that door just a crack and see what his reaction is. He'll probably be angry at first, but your challenge will be to accept his anger rather than LB as you have in the past.

What do you think?

I posted this reply on your other thread but thought maybe I should post it here as well......

Dear FF:
I finally read your whole thread.

I appreciate that you consider me worthy of advice but please realize that I haven't been in your shoes so I'm just giving opinions and scenarios but I'm not speaking from experience. OK?

I think Pep has given you great advice, as usual, about hair highlighting or lowlighting that's popular now. Personally, I think blondes have more fun and would NEVER want to go darker!

Having something baking could be a real plus - banana bread, rolls, choc chip cookies....depending on how gracious you are feeling - you could even send the warm batch with him for the kids to enjoy. It could be bonus points if OW doesn't bake much - never know!

I think that you starting the convo with how sorry you are for the hitting episode is an excellent idea.

It gives you the upper hand in the tone of the conversation...."Before we begin, I would just like to express my deepest regrets....blah,blah,blah". It also paints you in a better light and could serve to knock him for a tiny loop. And if you are sorry, and regretful, then why wait to tell him. I think you'll feel better getting it off your chest and mind, too.

And I'm sorry, have you been to MC or not? But you might want to slip in somewhere in the conversation that you don't feel a divorce is what you want at this time because you cannot honestly say that you (as a couple) have tried your best to reconcile.

Pep said it best, baby steps. Avoid any and all LBs, create a little mystery, be the safe, loving person he will remember when the fog lifts!
DB

FF

Just got caught up on your other thread. Sounds like your WH is definately on an emotional rollercoaster. However, we don't really know what's causing it. It could be one of two things. Either he is starting to experience some second thoughts about the situation (hopefully) or he's feeling better about the situation as he's perceiving that you're no longer angry with him. Either way, it's not really about him, but about you and what you want. If you're not sure, that's ok. First, you should be able to buy some time from your attorney by delaying the proceeding. Second, if he is experiencing second thougts, now would be a could time to implement a 180 Plan. For more informatin on this see TMCM's list of 180 Degree Plan

There's been quite a bit of discussion on this here. Anyone else have any of the links?

Regardless of what you decide, the main thing to remember, is you cannot control the outcome of the situation. Sure you can delay the divorce, but if it's meant to be than you H will file and go ahead and get one anyway. You'll rest easier however, knowing that it was not your choice and you did not bring it about.

Does this help?

Faith1960,

First thanks for replying. To quick answer your questions, here it goes.

You are correct on length of A and length of living together. My WH bought the house w/only his name on purchase agreement and loan. We are in a marital property no-fault D state.

WH is on his 2nd job after losing the one. I totally agree w/WH not being able to handle a 4th kid when 3 was too many before. I told him this very same thing back in July 03.

The temp. papers I'm referring to are the stipulation and order for temorary relief (support payments and marital property split).
Right now our D is undergoing the child custody phase. WH wants physical custody so an evaluation of each of us and the occupants in our homes will start in about a month or more. I told my atty. my stance, and she said she respects my decision and will do what I ask of her.

I was planning to tell WH my thoughts on putting D on hold for those exact reasons, I let my emotions make the decison for me, not my logic, heart, and rationale. I just started being my old self of being generous, kind and more than civil to WH again about 1 1/2 weeks ago, but it is WH that was first to burst into tears telling me he feels he is short-changing the kids and wants to talk w/me. So that is a good sign.

I think I looked at the 180 degree plan, but I should re-read it again. And, yes, your info. has helped. I just have a gut feeling WH is feeling regret and guilt, but hopefully that is not just cuz this is what I want to see, but rather hopefully it is the reality.


Dazed blonde,

Thanks also. I'll have to read the reply on my other thread too. Yes, I am deeply sorry now and deeply regret having resorted to violence and hitting him. I have never done something so dumb in my life.

Yes, we did go to MC about 5 times. We were making so so progress, but I think I pushed too hard in the last full session since WH was just stalling and not willing to make a decision one way or another.

Thanks a lot.

FF

bump

foreverfaithful ,

well, I've read everything and you asked me what I thought.

I'm truely not sure what others will think but if I were in your situation, I'd do the following:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My WH does have visitation with the kids every Wed. night for 3 hours and every other weekend.
I am increasingly becoming curious as to if the grass on the other side is turning yellow at all. What I do know is that the OW's 9yo kid is an only child and is getting a wake up call to how young 3yo's get into their things. This doesn't seem to sit well w/OW's kid.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Give them a blast of "Reality". I honestly don't think that visitation only on Wed. 3 hours and every other weekend is enough. I mean this serously!!!!
I can tell you now that OW and OW/c are going to go crazy within time.

I've seen this happen alot of times in relationship with children from both sides. Almost all of them "broke up" sooner or later because one of the affairees couldn't cope with it any longer. They "loved" the other affairee but not his children.

You know yourself that children give you NO time (well hardly) for romance, spontanious sex, love talk, easy-going things.
The make a mess, the fight, they yell, they break things, they make things dirty, you name they do it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And if someone is not used to this, this will eventually "GO NUTS!"

Think about this, you will have nothing to loose.
And trust, I don't believe that OW will try to force you to "give-up" your children, so that she can have them.

But as I said, I don't know how others think about this.
You know your situation better.

I just know one thing. I too have 2 children and they are now grown-up. I love my children with all of my heart, but I do get extremely nervous when little children are in my house.
We are just not used to anymore.


But no matter what you decide to do. Don't loose your pride. Stay calm and prowd about yourself.
Think twice before you speak and be good to yourself.

take care
bb

Blondblossom,

Thanks for the insight. I know that at one point, before OW moved in, WH told me that he would like another week night with our kids once he moved into his new house.

I have also been thinking that if I did give another night, I would change the nights to Tuesday's and Thursday's. This way, I would not need to pay a babysitter for my last 3 nights of my anger management classes which are held on Thursdays. It would also open the additional opportunity for WH to have to come to our (my) house an additional time where he would again see my improvements.

Also, as I mentioned to WH before, it is tough on the kids to be shuttled back and forth cuz they fall asleep on the way to his house, but it is not a long enough nap so they are cranky when they get to his house.

OW and her D would eventually get sick of it, and equally both of them. OW is not used to the small kid (3 y/o) like you said, and her D who is 9 y/o is used to having Mom to herself. The discipline issue of the other's kids has already come up, but so far not too strong from what I know so far. The OW D is also apparently a whiner even at 9 and a cry baby and an instigator upon my kids (pinching, hitting, name calling) etc. My WH had to tell OW D to stop calling our DS an idiot. Not good, not good at all!!!

Hopefully this upcoming meeting next Wed. between WH and myself involves these issues and hopefully his having regret, 2nd thoughts.

I will probably offer the 2nd night. The only reasons I haven't yet is I wonder if the 2nd night will make him not miss them as much and ease his conscience enough to continue the A for a lot longer, and also that it is a pain in butt for me to drive 30 miles the times I do already. I know 30 miles is nothing compared to the distance some people have to drive for visitation, so I don't mean to complain here.

Thanks again. I'll let you know what happens.

FF

FF:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
WH is on his 2nd job after losing the one. I totally agree w/WH not being able to handle a 4th kid when 3 was too many before. I told him this very same thing back in July 03.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to go out on a limb here, but given your H's age, and your circumstances, I'd bet that the loss of his job along with all of the responsibility was more than what he could emotionally handle. He was probably experiencing a tremendous amount of pressure and was internalizing his feelings. What was your behavior towards him at this time? Were you demanding, putting more pressure on him, LB'ing rather than understanding? The added stress of not being able to meet your needs/expectations probably pushed him further into withdrawl.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The temp. papers I'm referring to are the stipulation and order for temorary relief (support payments and marital property split).
Right now our D is undergoing the child custody phase. WH wants physical custody so an evaluation of each of us and the occupants in our homes will start in about a month or more. I told my atty. my stance, and she said she respects my decision and will do what I ask of her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you talked to your attorney about delaying the process yet? While this is a short-term strategy, it can buy a little bit of time (2-4 weeks) to allow the situation to play out a bit more?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was planning to tell WH my thoughts on putting D on hold for those exact reasons, I let my emotions make the decison for me, not my logic, heart, and rationale.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good move. I'll post the letter I sent H when I changed my mind about the D. The timing has to be right however. If you do it too early, you'll end up pushing him right back into withdrawl.Keep looking for positive signs of him breaking out of the fog. Write your letter and have it ready to either either e-mail or deliver to him. Any chance you and he will get to spend some quality time together with the kids now that the holidays are approaching? Onc you deliver, WAIT. If he is the type of gut who internalizes everything, he'll need to think about it. If he responds immediately, it will more than likely be an emotional reaction. Either way, emotions will be running high on both sides, so you will have to take extra care not to LB!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just started being my old self of being generous, kind and more than civil to WH again about 1 1/2 weeks ago, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. Continue to let him see the positive change in you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just have a gut feeling WH is feeling regret and guilt, but hopefully that is not just cuz this is what I want to see, but rather hopefully it is the reality.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Learn to trust your gut feelings. More often than not they are right. It took me nearly 20 years to understand this. I never second guess them now. If he's truly feeling regret and guilt, this is a good thing. He's coming to realize he made a mistake and the separation has done you guys good. You're both growing and learning from your mistakes.

If H and I had not separated, there's no way we would be in recovery now. Even though it was painful at the time, we needed the year apart. Nearly nine months went by before we could even begin to talk with each other without LB'ing.

I sent him the following letter and he called me about two weeks later. After that the rest is history. I used the MB tools to rebuild our relationship, let go of the past LB's and history, and gave it up to God. I figured if we were meant to be together, He would make it happen.

Here it is:

Dear H:

Since you left 9 months ago, I've experienced some tough times and it's been difficult facing the possibility of life without you. Because I expected to remain committed for life in this marriage it’s been a tremendous shock to see our marriage unravel. As I reflect on our first few years together, I’m reminded that you asked me to marry you of your own free will and I did not blackmail you or offer you a bribe. It was a decision you made on your own which I joyfully accepted with eyes wide open. Similarly, I did not force you to adopt (son) take medication for your depression, or seek counseling outside of our marriage. When we married, I was not so naïve to believe that we would not have our ups and downs as individuals or as a family. I confess to having my own lot of emotional baggage and insecurities that still haunt me, however, I now recognize them and am working on trying to accept and embrace them as they will always be a part of me and have helped me become the person that I am today. And while I tried to support you and your choices, I also allowed my own feelings of worthlessness, self- hatred, and anger project onto you As a result, I sought satisfaction by opposing your parental relationship with Justin, and spending money I did not have. Moreover, I validated these feelings by physically letting myself go. Regardless, the past is history, and while I can reflect on lessons learned, it will remain in the past.
I am aware that I can no more expect you to come back into this relationship than I could have made you marry me. You are free to make your own choices and I want to support your choices. I now know however that starting the paperwork for the divorce was a mistake simply because that is not what I want - then, now or ever. Rather than consulting with my conscience and the Lord, I hastily made a decision that at the time I believed was for the best. So, as far as that end goes you should know that I will no longer initiate anything in that direction. If our marriage is to follow that fatal path the decision rests solely on your shoulders and is between you and the Lord. I don't make decisions or live my life for anyone other than myself and Him and certainly expect nothing more of you. In these past few months as my relationship has grown with him, I know and believe that I answer to Him in my own way and I have peace knowing that I serve Him best as wife, mother, daughter and self as best as I can.
I admit this entire experience has been a very painful lesson for me. It is often said that the Lord sometimes takes extreme measures to get your attention. There's no doubt in my mind that he's been trying to get my attention for a long time now. I remain open to reconciliation, as we have discussed, because I believe this time is meant to be a healing time for both of us. In fact, the attached illustrates the effect my co-dependency has had on my relationships with family, Justin and you.
If you choose not to reconcile however, I will understand that it is your choice and I will be cooperative with you and contact you only on issues regarding (son). In the meantime, I ask God for help in guiding me, giving me patience and courage to not worry about what's ahead. We’ve shared some wonderful times together as a family. I treasure these memories and now look forward to the future either way. I will continue to pray for you and trust that God will also guide all of us in what we do. I hope we can talk again soon.

Always and God Bless,


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think I looked at the 180 degree plan, but I should re-read it again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the book that refers to it is called Divorce Busing by Michelle Weiner Davis.

Good Luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I have also been thinking that if I did give another night, I would change the nights to Tuesday's and Thursday's. This way, I would not need to pay a babysitter for my last 3 nights of my anger management classes which are held on Thursdays. It would also open the additional opportunity for WH to have to come to our (my) house an additional time where he would again see my improvements.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rather than offering him an additional night, why not ask him to babysit? Kind of test the water to see if he's willing to help you out? Regardless of what you decide, be very careful to not turn this into a control issue between you and him and consequently LB!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
OW and her D would eventually get sick of it, and equally both of them. OW is not used to the small kid (3 y/o) like you said, and her D who is 9 y/o is used to having Mom to herself. The discipline issue of the other's kids has already come up, but so far not too strong from what I know so far. The OW D is also apparently a whiner even at 9 and a cry baby and an instigator upon my kids (pinching, hitting, name calling) etc. My WH had to tell OW D to stop calling our DS an idiot. Not good, not good at all!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with BB. Unless there is an agreed upon parenting agreement between H ans OW, they'll soon experiences the "joys" of blended families! However, it's not the 9yo's fault she's a whine. I suspect alot of the behavior you are hearing about is because she is acting out. Subconciously she's attempting to create upset in her household between her mother and H with the expectation and hope that they will break up and OW and OWH will reunite.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hopefully this upcoming meeting next Wed. between WH and myself involves these issues and hopefully his having regret, 2nd thoughts. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Possibly, but if not, don't push it. Have your letter ready and if you guys just have a really nice time together, and the timing seems right, let him have it. You might even be able to read it to him. But play out all the different scenarios before hand that could happen. Caution however, if things go well, under no circumstances have sex with him!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will probably offer the 2nd night. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rather than offer, ask! Don't make it sound like you're doing him a favor.

Faith1960,

Thanks, During WH job loss, there was no A happening at all (that I know of). I was very supportive of him, not demanding. I even offered to go get a job for the interim, but he said no, don't. I tried re-assuring him that with our good savings account and the land we had just bought to build could be used and the land sold if necessary. I gave him ample room and opportunity to conduct his job search during which time I kept kids occupied while he sent resumes and did computer time. Just to let you know, he was fired, not laid off. So this I believe hurt his ego and reputation very badly which is why I think he slid downhill. Plus it took 6 months to get a new job where we moved to the next state over. All combined w/3 kids is the culminating factors to his emotional slide, and coupled with my not meeting his EN, did it in.

My atty. does know for sure that I do not wish to proceed. I told her I would let her know soon if WH feels same way. I need to give him the letter or tell him before 12/15, which is the date a child custody evaluator has to be appointed. My atty. said she has not heard a thing from WH's atty. and was shocked to hear WH fired his atty. and hired a new one, cuz she has not received anything from a new atty yet.

Quality time with kids is highly unlikely, since he hasn't expressed any desire or shown any signs of reaching that point yet. We will not be spending any of the holidays together. He has the kids for Turkey Day and New Years weekend, and I have them for X-mas weekend. Just sticking to the visitation schedule unless he expresses a desire to this next Wednesday during our meeting.

Asking him to just babysit is good idea. However, the question is where? Should I dare let him into my home to do it after he cleaned me out the night of my arrest. I don't know if I would feel comfortable having him here when I am not, unless I completely prepared myself and gathered up all pertinent papers that I would not want him seeing. This idea would be good possibly since he would have to come alone w/o OW, and he would be surrounded by everything that was comfortable beforehand (nicer house than his new one, pictures of kids hanging up, the comfort homey feeling . What do you think?

As far as the sex goes, totally totally agree. I am not ready for that quite yet, and he will have to undergo all STD checks b/4hand.

Asking for the other night instead of offering is good. Take care, by the way, very nice poignant letter to your WH. If you don't mind, I would like to mirror some of what you said into my letter to WH.

FF

FF:

Have you coordinated Christmas shopping for the kids? You could ask him to babysit while you go Christmas shopping....and you'll need to figure out what you are going to buy them vs. what he is going to buy them so there's going to be lots of opportunity for discussions coming up.
DB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just to let you know, he was fired, not laid off. So this I believe hurt his ego and reputation very badly which is why I think he slid downhill. Plus it took 6 months to get a new job where we moved to the next state over. All combined w/3 kids is the culminating factors to his emotional slide, and coupled with my not meeting his EN, did it in.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That explains a bit more. Do you suppose that getting fired not just hurt his ego but left him feeling worthless? And even though you were encouraging and supportive, do think that maybe that made him feel worse? And finally when you were not meeting his EN's how do you think that made hime feel? Perhaps that he was worthless of being married to you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My atty. does know for sure that I do not wish to proceed. I told her I would let her know soon if WH feels same way. I need to give him the letter or tell him before 12/15, which is the date a child custody evaluator has to be appointed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hang in there. Let things play out a bit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Quality time with kids is highly unlikely, since he hasn't expressed any desire or shown any signs of reaching that point yet. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe he's just not ready for it yet. Baby steps here.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Asking him to just babysit is good idea. However, the question is where? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What does it matter. If he asks, throw the ball back into his court and say something like, "Whatever's convenient for you." See what he suggests. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Should I dare let him into my home to do it after he cleaned me out the night of my arrest. I don't know if I would feel comfortable having him here when I am not, unless I completely prepared myself and gathered up all pertinent papers that I would not want him seeing. This idea would be good possibly since he would have to come alone w/o OW, and he would be surrounded by everything that was comfortable beforehand (nicer house than his new one, pictures of kids hanging up, the comfort homey feeling . What do you think?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good idea. CYA first though with copies, or a locking file cabinet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Asking for the other night instead of offering is good. Take care, by the way, very nice poignant letter to your WH. If you don't mind, I would like to mirror some of what you said into my letter to WH. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Help yourself.

Faith1960,

As usual, good ideas. I just read your story. How agonizing for you and H. It is truly a miracle that you two are where you are today, thank the Lord for that.

My whole sitch has brought me closer to God than ever before in my life. I just pray daily that God intervenes in WH and OW relationship and encourages them, plants the seeds in their hearts and minds to "go back to where they belong, which is thier spouses".

My WH has been on zoloft since june, 03. Not sure if he still is. I miss him so much right now. He is at his parents preparing for deer hunting. I have gone with WH and his dad and brother ever since I have known them all (11 years). I feel very SAD cuz I feel very left out and discarded. I will be calling WH parents house in a bit just to wish everyone good luck. My relationship w/WH parents is good yet (a bit uncomfortable though). They feel terrible about what has taken place. They have had numerous father/son, mother/son talks but to no avail.

Also, Turkey day is and always has been celebrated out at thier cabin, which is so cozy and romantic. WH has already taken OW there several times, so that place is also tainted, just as is our camper.

I will no doubt cry my eyes out when saying goodbye to my kids next Wednesday when WH takes them for the holiday. I need PATIENCE very badly. I'm hanging in there, but it is oh so rough and tough. All for now.

You hang in there. Glad recovery is going well for you.

FF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My whole sitch has brought me closer to God than ever before in my life. I just pray daily that God intervenes in WH and OW relationship and encourages them, plants the seeds in their hearts and minds to "go back to where they belong, which is thier spouses". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If that is his plan then have faith that it will come to pass. Sometimes when the sheep stray from the flock, they get lost, but more often than not the shepherd finds them and guides them home.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I miss him so much right now. He is at his parents preparing for deer hunting. I have gone with WH and his dad and brother ever since I have known them all (11 years). I feel very SAD cuz I feel very left out and discarded. I will be calling WH parents house in a bit just to wish everyone good luck. My relationship w/WH parents is good yet (a bit uncomfortable though). They feel terrible about what has taken place. They have had numerous father/son, mother/son talks but to no avail.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Holidays are tough. H abandoned us 2 weeks before X-mas. I waited until after the holidays to tell my family. Son and I went on a vacation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Also, Turkey day is and always has been celebrated out at thier cabin, which is so cozy and romantic. WH has already taken OW there several times, so that place is also tainted, just as is our camper.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's just a cabin and camper. It's the memories that can never be replaced. Hopefully, one day you and H will be able to recreate these memories.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will no doubt cry my eyes out when saying goodbye to my kids next Wednesday when WH takes them for the holiday. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He just might also! Hang in there. You'll be fine. Stay busy!!

Peace.

Faith1960,

Thanks for the encouraging words of wisdom. They help me get through the day and onto the next. Have a good weekend.

FF

FF:

How was your weekend? Do you have an update?