Faith1960,

Yes, here is how the meeting w/WH went.

For starters, from the surface, it does not appear good.

I made his favorite snack, beef jerky and gave him a big bag of it saying this is for the cabin. He asked, for the kids?, I said FOR EVERYONE. I found out from kids, he did not eat too much of it that I know of.

Anyway, I started the meeting out by reaching out to hold his hand. He did eventually reciprocate while I told him from the bottom depths of my heart, I am truly sorry for hitting him, I should never have hit you. He became glassy eyed and said thank you for apologizing, and he accepted it. I told him, that the reason I have not done so until now is that I wanted the words to be meant when I said them and could not do that until this time. He understood.

Now, down to the nitty gritty of the meeting. He portrayed that he is not having 2nd thoughts, but rather just misses the kids and is requesting more visitation and gave me a proposed joint legal/physical custody arrangement. He would like the kids on every weekend during the school year and also the one week night/week for 3 hrs. and I would have them during the week. Then during the summer, he wants them during the week and I would get them every weekend and the one week night/week 3 hrs.

I told him, I'm not going to comment on this yet, but it appears like a lose/lose situation for me/kids.

I told him, the kids would be in daycare the entire summer and that he would never be able to take them camping if he wishes. He said the kids would also be in daycare when w/me once I get a job and the camping issue he is aware of.

I said the daycare sitch depends on what type of job I get. He said well they would be in daycare either in day or eves. Again, I said not necessarily.

He told me in not so many words that it was me all along that he did not want to be with and not the kids and I'm the reason he was so unhappy the past 5 years.

I asked WH if he thinks we gave our marriage the "old college try". He said after/during counseling, NO, but in past 5 yrs, he gave it all he could. I said respectfully, I disagress, I don't think we gave it s_ _ _, do you know why? He asked why. I said because we didn't know how until now (which I meant the book SAA which we both read).

I told him how I see the kids being affected and also hinted at he could come back and try again since I am a lot different person in so many words.

He replied "I just don't think I can do it".

I told him I loved him now more than I ever have and that I appreciate him now more than ever before. Not sure if these were the right things to be said at this time, but did so.

I also think I might have revealed too many of my cards during this 1st meeting cuz I told him I no longer wanted the Divorce and my atty. knows it. WH was shocked, he said WHAT?? I think he was thinking "What? Now how can I marry OW?" but he did not respond with anything else except "What do you mean?" I said, I never wanted the D, I filed out of anger, haste and vengeance, and did not listen to my heart and logic. He didn't say anything else.

He said near the end, "I don't hate you".

That is about it. Nothing really accomplished I don't think. What do you think?

I also discovered he is telling outright lies about me to people. How do I handle my anger with this issue. I cannot go into detail in case of his possible monitoring.

When I picked up the kids tonight, I was civil, and offered/asked if he wanted to see the kids more this week, he could babysit for me on Thurs. eve. for 3 1/2 hours with him doing the transporting. I talked to him later and he replied he won't be seeing the kids this Thurs. since it would be back to back nights and not spread out w/day('s) between. That Thurs. just so happens to be our 10th wedding anniversary. What do you suppose his real reason is?

All for now. I will answer any specific questions if you have any. Later.

FF

That is the update

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Anyway, I started the meeting out by reaching out to hold his hand. He did eventually reciprocate while I told him from the bottom depths of my heart, I am truly sorry for hitting him, I should never have hit you. He became glassy eyed and said thank you for apologizing, and he accepted it. I told him, that the reason I have not done so until now is that I wanted the words to be meant when I said them and could not do that until this time. He understood.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you handled this really well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Now, down to the nitty gritty of the meeting. He portrayed that he is not having 2nd thoughts, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How did he do/say this?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but rather just misses the kids and is requesting more visitation and gave me a proposed joint legal/physical custody arrangement. He would like the kids on every weekend during the school year and also the one week night/week for 3 hrs. and I would have them during the week. Then during the summer, he wants them during the week and I would get them every weekend and the one week night/week 3 hrs.

I told him, I'm not going to comment on this yet, but it appears like a lose/lose situation for me/kids.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Try and understand all of his reasons for suggesting this. Even though you may not agree, try not to discount. This is an opportunity to POJA. I think you did a wise thing by holding your cards and not commenting on it. Regardless, try not to think of the situation as winning or losing, but a problem that needs to be worked out that is agreeable to both you and H.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He told me in not so many words that it was me all along that he did not want to be with and not the kids and I'm the reason he was so unhappy the past 5 years.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fog talk. One person is usually not the source of another's unhappiness. While you may not have been meeting his most important EN's, the cause of his unhappiness is himself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I asked WH if he thinks we gave our marriage the "old college try". He said after/during counseling, NO, but in past 5 yrs, he gave it all he could. I said respectfully, I disagress, I don't think we gave it s_ _ _, do you know why? He asked why. I said because we didn't know how until now (which I meant the book SAA which we both read). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Little bit of a LB here. If you ask the question you have to be prepared to listen and accept the answer, regardless of whether you agree or disagree. If you find yourself in a situation like this again better off to either not answer or answer with a non-committal "I see, I understand, etc. to show him that you are listening.

After talk about your own feelings. Never assume or say that he (we) didn't try. Under the circumstances, he's probably being 100% honest with you when he says "at the time it was the best he could do."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I told him how I see the kids being affected and also hinted at he could come back and try again since I am a lot different person in so many words.

He replied "I just don't think I can do it".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, empathise with him. Understand that he is afraid. Best to communicate that you understand the pain you created in your relationship, and had you known then what you know now, you can't help but wonder if you would be where you're at.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also think I might have revealed too many of my cards during this 1st meeting cuz I told him I no longer wanted the Divorce and my atty. knows it. WH was shocked, he said WHAT?? I think he was thinking "What? Now how can I marry OW?" but he did not respond with anything else except "What do you mean?" I said, I never wanted the D, I filed out of anger, haste and vengeance, and did not listen to my heart and logic. He didn't say anything else.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not necessarily. I think you just need to let this ride for awhile. Did he appear to be upset?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do you think?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you've given him alot to think about. Let nature take it's course for awhile. In the meantime pray. If your marriage is meant to be, than God willing, it will.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also discovered he is telling outright lies about me to people. How do I handle my anger with this issue. I cannot go into detail in case of his possible monitoring. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's not out of the fog yet. Are these lies of the "sticks and stones" variety or more serious? Do the impact you legally in any way?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When I picked up the kids tonight, I was civil, and offered/asked if he wanted to see the kids more this week, he could babysit for me on Thurs. eve. for 3 1/2 hours with him doing the transporting. I talked to him later and he replied he won't be seeing the kids this Thurs. since it would be back to back nights and not spread out w/day('s) between. That Thurs. just so happens to be our 10th wedding anniversary. What do you suppose his real reason is? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it's as he said. Two nights back to back is too much for him at this time. I don't think your anniversary has anything to do with it. And if it does, be grateful that he doesn't want to disappoint any expectation that you may have.

He's thinking about everything that happened right now. This pot is simmering right now. Let's see what transpires over the course of the next week or two. Don't push your attorney just yet. Your next step will be to decide whether or not you want to go ahead with the divorce now or not. Keep in mind, if you withdraw, then if he truly wants to divorce, the responsibility of filing and explaining to the kids becomes his. When faced with this, my H couldn't do it.

Peace.

Faith1960,

Hi, thanks for replying. You have many valid points. To answer your questions:

WH portrayed the non-existence of 2nd thoughts by only stating that he wants to see the kids more and nothing else needed or wanted to be changed. Since I have always believed WH to love money more than family, I strongly believe he only wants the kids more so child support payments would be decreased.

You have a point on the POJA concept. I just don't think I could tolerate or allow my kids to spend any additional overnight stays under that roof while we are still married and he is setting such a bad example for our kids morality/values. I do however feel I could give him an additional weeknight during his weekend off week.

Thanks for the support on the issue of himself being the source of his unhappiness.

You do have a point on my little LB. I thought about this after he left and figured it was an LB, but I must say, if that is the only LB I did which it was, then I've come a long way baby since Sept. and October.

As far as empathising with him on the issue of him not being able to come back and try, you have another good point, and I wish I would have said something like you said to.

As far as if he appeared upset that I don't want to proceed with the divorce, yes, he appeared a bit shocked, startled and I guess not angry, but rather irritated a bit. He didn't say that he didn't want it or that he would then be filing or anything. He just didn't respond to it at all.

As far as his outright lies he is telling about me, they have the potential to be serious in the custody evaluation phase of things IF the custody evaluator believes him. The one lie has to do with portraying me as being unstable and a threat to myself, him, OW, or kids. Again, his lie is so incredibly home-grown fabricated from his own mind it is truly mind boggling to believe how or why he could continue to hurt me in such a way even more than he already has.

I ended up talking with WH on phone tonight during his talk with the kids. WH said he would watch the kids for me this Thursday if I would drop them off and pick them up. I said I already lined up the babysitter which is true. I said to him I asked/offered to you, and you refused, and now you want to if I do all the transporting. I can't remember, but I may have said to him that I will think about it and let him know.

I wonder why he changed his mind. Could he be thinking that since he just requested more time with the kids, he better accept this extra time with them to validate his request for extra visitation. What do you think? Should I drop kids off for him to babysit AND pick them up? If I did, the kids would not get home in bed until 9:15pm. (school night).

I will let things ride out for a while. I'm in no hurry anymore to do either (divorce nor pursue him). If he ends up having to file, he won't have to tell kids anything different, at least until they would get older and ask which one of us filed.

I'll keep you up to date.

FF

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Dear FF:

Re the Thursday night babysitting. I would let it stand with the babysitter. It shows that you aren't dependent upon him and he has to take responsibility for his actions. He probably had to okay it with his OW first and he might get tired of doing this type of thing for his own kids. JMHO,
DB

Dazed blonde,

You may be right about checking w/OW, but she was there in house when I offered/asked WH to sit kids. 15 minutes after the offer was made, I was talking to WH on phone on my way home and that is when he declined the offer/request. Now one day later, he is accepting offer/request w/me transporting.

My hunch is that he spoke with his new atty. and the atty. maybe suggested that WH accept offer to make him look like he wants to spend time w/kids. Who knows, but I will most likely keep babysitter so I don't portray desperation, and too much accomodating or giving in at this point.

Did you know that the night in question is also our 10 year wedding anniversary? What do you think of that?

FF

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The countdown continues to 1 day before our 10 year wedding anniversary (12/4) and it shall be very interesting to see how the kid exchange goes tonight. By this I mean if WH says ANYTHING nice to me, asks me if I'm still gonna have the sitter watch kids tomorrow night or him watch them, and also to see if he mentions our anniversary AT ALL, cuz I will NOT be mentioning it at all.

Does anyone have any suggestions whatsoever as to how I might handle myself or how to respond IF IF my WH wishes me happy anniv. or brings it up in any way, shape or form?

I thought about politely or respectfully saying to him if he does, "What anniversary?, you've made it clear that there is no commitment to our marriage on your part, so why even mention it to me.

Any suggestions??

FF

FF:

Your planned reply is a big LB, IMHO.

You're still married so I would send him an anniversary card. Maybe not so much a mushy one - just "am thinking of you" kind. Maybe even one of those "thinking of you" cards instead of an anniversary card.

But I would mail it so it comes to the house they share with all the other mail!
DB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Since I have always believed WH to love money more than family, I strongly believe he only wants the kids more so child support payments would be decreased. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even if this is true, the end result is the kids spend more time with their Dad and Dad with kids. This is what's important. Try not to lose sight of what's really important here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You have a point on the POJA concept. I just don't think I could tolerate or allow my kids to spend any additional overnight stays under that roof while we are still married and he is setting such a bad example for our kids morality/values. I do however feel I could give him an additional weeknight during his weekend off week. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're contradicting yourself here. Either it's an issue or it's not. If it's an issue don't adjust your boundary either way. Stick with it. You can't change the current situation, but don't allow him anything more if it's really an issue here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You do have a point on my little LB. I thought about this after he left and figured it was an LB, but I must say, if that is the only LB I did which it was, then I've come a long way baby since Sept. and October.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agree! And you recognize it too! The trick is to recognize the feeling or trigger before it happens. It takes time and practice. Rehearse what you could have said or how you could have handled the situation differently. Moving forward, when you feel the impulse to LB, try and be non-commital by saying, I see, or I understand. Try not to go down the I feel road until you've had some time to rationalize it a bit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as empathising with him on the issue of him not being able to come back and try, you have another good point, and I wish I would have said something like you said to.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like I said it takes practice. Basically, what you've done though is planted the seed. Now just let it grow. Your continued change and positive behaviors will water and nourish it in the meantime.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as if he appeared upset that I don't want to proceed with the divorce, yes, he appeared a bit shocked, startled and I guess not angry, but rather irritated a bit. He didn't say that he didn't want it or that he would then be filing or anything. He just didn't respond to it at all.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This could be positive. No doubt however, he's thinking and that's what you want him to do!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as his outright lies he is telling about me, they have the potential to be serious in the custody evaluation phase of things IF the custody evaluator believes him. The one lie has to do with portraying me as being unstable and a threat to myself, him, OW, or kids.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tough to prove without proof. Sure you hit him, but you paid the consequence. Other than that one time, there haven't been any issues. Judges and the court tend to look at the "whole person" If this was an isolated incident, I wouldn't worry about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wonder why he changed his mind. Could he be thinking that since he just requested more time with the kids, he better accept this extra time with them to validate his request for extra visitation. What do you think? Should I drop kids off for him to babysit AND pick them up? If I did, the kids would not get home in bed until 9:15pm. (school night).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the discussion you had with him really through him a curveball and he had to absorb it. He may have had to discuss the additional time with OW, or may not. You don't know. Don't worry about what you don't know or can't control. The point is, he wants to see the kids on Thursday.
I probably would have let him know that I already made arrangements with the babysitter but would have asked him if hewanted me to cancel. Other than that, I wouldn't go out of my way to get the kids there or pick them up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will let things ride out for a while. I'm in no hurry anymore to do either (divorce nor pursue him). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let that seed grow!! Great attitude. Put your faith in the lord that no matter what happens He knows what's best. If He wants you and H to be together then He will make it happen in time. There's nothing you can do to make it happen. Just keep working on yourself.

If you can, pick up the book, The Power of a Praying Wife by Stormie OMartian. You'll love it and it will help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If he ends up having to file, he won't have to tell kids anything different, at least until they would get older and ask which one of us filed.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't revisit this with him unless he asks. His lawyer will contact your lawyer to find out what's going on. Then his lawyer will talk to him. Regardless of his reaction to his lawyer's informing him of delaying the divorce, you can let him know that "for you own peace of mind and hear" you couldn't go through with it. If he wants the D than it's his choice, and you won't contest it, but you won't carry the responsibility of that decision on your conscience!

In other words, throw the ball back in his court and see what he does with it.

Good Luck!

Dazed blonde,

Thanks, I would send WH an anniversary card or thinkin of you card, but I've already been down this road back in August when I gave him 2-3 love cards with my heart poured out into them, and he didn't seem to care, in fact he seemed to care more about the same type of cards that OW gave him more. So I think I may try this time differently and see what happens. I sure don't think I have anything to lose at this point.

Faith1960,

Thanks for replying. The kids exchange went smooth as can be expected. When I dropped off the kids tonight, WH mentioned they were going to get their Christmas tree tonight and
that he was going through the Christmas decs and ornaments I packed for him. He said he feels he did not receive 1/2 of the decs/orns and was wondering if he could have some more of the ornaments and some more Christmas lights. I
really had to bite my tongue hard so as to not LB saying anything like "Well thats tough luck when you leave, go buy some or something like "I hear OW has given you a lot of household stuff, what about her xmas decs?"

HOWEVER, I am so very proud of myself because I did not LB, but instead I told him I would check the decs at home and see.

I got home and did so. I do remember giving him a big quantity of lights and I didn't have all that many ornaments left, but I gave him both some lights and orns. which included a crystal clear virgin Mary angel and another religious one. I was very tempted give him another two ornaments (one was a ceramic cross that says God keeps his promises, and
the other is a crystal heart w/2 doves in middle and it says Our 1st Christmas together, 1993)

I made the decision to NOT give him those 2 just cuz I didn't want to push the cross on him and I did not think it would be good idea to give
the 1st xmas one. I felt these tactics would only drive him further into the FOG.

When he dropped off kids, I could notice immediately that WH had been crying
cuz his eyes or eyelids were red and I could just tell it in his voice and behavior. He was quiet. I handed him the box of xmas decs and he said thank you that was very nice of you. I just nodded and 1/2 smiled back.

He then said if I wanted him to watch kids on Thursdays he would be glad to but if I'm going to ask him to pick up, and have no place to watch them up here and drop them off, then he
feels I should drop off and p/up.

Now onto a couple questions/comments you had in your reply to me:

As far as contradicting myself on the overnight stay, I think you may have misunderstood. The current 1 weeknight/week is just a 3 hour visitation, not overnight. I was saying I would maybe give an extra 3 hour night, not overnight. Does that explain things better or am I still contradicting myself?

Re: the LBing and prevention tips, I think I just demonstrated the prevention tips tonight all on my own before I actually read your tips, so there is progress in me. YEAH!!


Re: the outright lie WH told about me. It doesn't have to do with the actual hitting incident, but my emotional state at the time and something else, but yes it was all a one-time incident.

I had already explained to WH that I lined up babysitter, but did not ask WH if he wanted me to cancel. I told him again tonight when he dropped off kids and commented about watching them, that I already had the sitter lined up. I think he purposely mentioned the thurs. night sitting deal so as to pry and see if I had changed my mind on the sitter. I just couldn't bring myself to bend over backwards and again accomodate or change my actions to appear as being able to be manipulated by him.

Thanks for the book title. I will have to check into it, I just received 2 books on praying and surviving a betrayal (both christian books) from another friend.

I will let you know how the anniv. day goes. I am truthfully not expecting any contact from him re: anniversary wishes. Tough day ahead still.

Thank you for your support and guidance. It truly has helped me get through the trials and tribulations.

FF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> HOWEVER, I am so very proud of myself because I did not LB, but instead I told him I would check the decs at home and see.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh you did well and you passed the test!! Excellent!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I got home and did so. I do remember giving him a big quantity of lights and I didn't have all that many ornaments left, but I gave him both some lights and orns. which included a crystal clear virgin Mary angel and another religious one. I was very tempted give him another two ornaments (one was a ceramic cross that says God keeps his promises, and
the other is a crystal heart w/2 doves in middle and it says Our 1st Christmas together, 1993

I made the decision to NOT give him those 2 just cuz I didn't want to push the cross on him and I did not think it would be good idea to give
the 1st xmas one. I felt these tactics would only drive him further into the FOG.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have to go by your gut on this one. I know when H contacted me for some paperwork to mail to him at the time we were separated, I sent him a couple of pics of him and son, and another of him and me on one of our ski trips. Nothing else, no note, card etc. It wasn't too long after that we started talking.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When he dropped off kids, I could notice immediately that WH had been crying
cuz his eyes or eyelids were red and I could just tell it in his voice and behavior. He was quiet. I handed him the box of xmas decs and he said thank you that was very nice of you. I just nodded and 1/2 smiled back. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You did well. I'm a bit concerned that your H appears to be so emotional. Is he an emotional kind of guy? I know at one time you said he was being treated for depression. Do you think he's better? Worse? About the same?

Next time you see this type of behavior from him, try and probe a bit....ask; Are you ok? You seem a little upset? Is there something I can do? Try and discover his EN and meet it if you can. Be careful however that you don't allow your own taker to come out. It's all about him and you meeting his EN, which at that moment may be listening, and understanding....not talking about what you feel, want, etc.

I guarantee you, when men really feel women are listening to them, and understanding without any type of expectation from them in return, they open up. More often than not, this is the reason for affairs. This EN is not being met at home, and someone else meets it. One thing leads to another, and you know the rest.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He then said if I wanted him to watch kids on Thursdays he would be glad to but if I'm going to ask him to pick up, and have no place to watch them up here and drop them off, then he
feels I should drop off and p/up.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I probably would have asked him to meet me half way. For example he picks up and you drop off, or v/v.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Does that explain things better or am I still contradicting myself?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Got it. I misunderstood. I thought they were overnights. Are the kids spending any overnights at all with H and OW?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Re: the LBing and prevention tips, I think I just demonstrated the prevention tips tonight all on my own before I actually read your tips, so there is progress in me. YEAH!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The change in your behavior is the result of your learning! You're doing great.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Re: the outright lie WH told about me. It doesn't have to do with the actual hitting incident, but my emotional state at the time and something else, but yes it was all a one-time incident.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe chalk it up to something that was said in the heat of the moment. H and I said terrible things prior to our separation and several weeks following. It was several months before I could let go and accept that he didn't mean it and neither did I.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think he purposely mentioned the thurs. night sitting deal so as to pry and see if I had changed my mind on the sitter. I just couldn't bring myself to bend over backwards and again accomodate or change my actions to appear as being able to be manipulated by him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Possibly, which is why I suggested trying to meet him halfway.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will let you know how the anniv. day goes. I am truthfully not expecting any contact from him re: anniversary wishes. Tough day ahead still.Thank you for your support and guidance. It truly has helped me get through the trials and tribulations.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You'll be fine. Go to church and light a votive and say a prayer of thanks for bringing H into your life. Pray with conviction that you will accept God's decision where your marriage is concerned. While it's very painful and you may not agree, believe that He knows what is best for you and this is part of something much bigger that He has planned for you.

Keep the faith.

Peace.

Faith1960,

Hi, thanks again. I hope you can reply to me before this afternoon, cuz I'm feeling weak about WH wanting to babysit kids tonight and was thinking of emailing him with the offer of splitting the driving again. But again, this would be wishy washy again on my part and me being able to be manipulated by him.

I'm going to try inputting your answers/questions as you did and try answering them that way. Here it goes.

I'm a bit concerned that your H appears to be so emotional. Is he an emotional kind of guy? I know at one time you said he was being treated for depression. Do you think he's better? Worse? About the same?

Before the whole A began, WH was more affectionate than most men, but I had only seen him cry 1-2 times in our almost 12 years together. But since the A came out in Feb. and more so in July, he has become more emotional; and noticeably in the past 5 weeks. I was wondering if you think it would be good idea to email him at work today and ask if he is okay and if there is anything I can do? What do you think?

Got it. I misunderstood. I thought they were overnights. Are the kids spending any overnights at all with H and OW?

Yes, the kids spend every other weekend overnight by him and OW.

I'm going to go and pray now or read. I look forward to your responses. By the way, this has always been about my sitch, but I need to ask, how is your situation been lately. I know you two are together again and for a while I believe, but how has that been going for you?

Thanks.

FF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I hope you can reply to me before this afternoon, cuz I'm feeling weak about WH wanting to babysit kids tonight and was thinking of emailing him with the offer of splitting the driving again. But again, this would be wishy washy again on my part and me being able to be manipulated by him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So is he or is he not watching the kids tonight? I'm confused. If he is, I'd wait until he comes to pick them up, then make your offer to pick the kids up after. If not, and you still have the babysitter lined up, I'd leave things where they are.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but I had only seen him cry 1-2 times in our almost 12 years together. But since the A came out in Feb. and more so in July, he has become more emotional; and noticeably in the past 5 weeks. I was wondering if you think it would be good idea to email him at work today and ask if he is okay and if there is anything I can do? What do you think?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is significant. I wouldn't e-mail him. Too impersonal. And by now he's recovered from the moment. You want to address it at the time you see it. Wait for the next time he's like that and then be there for him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> By the way, this has always been about my sitch, but I need to ask, how is your situation been lately. I know you two are together again and for a while I believe, but how has that been going for you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We've been in recovery for 1 year now. We'v ehad our ups and downs, but generally things are going well. The feeling now is definately one of, "we're in it for the long haul." Our problems generally stem from communication issues, or lack thereof in response to the amount of stress we have going on at any one time in our lives. We both recognize this now so that definately helps. It's a day by day thing that we just try and work on.

Peace.

Faith,

Thanks for the quick reply. No, WH is not watching kids tonight. I terribly regret not meeting him halfway on it last night. I do think it may have been interesting to see what his emotional state would have been when he would have dropped kids off here at his once comfortable home.

It is so hard to stick to my guns, but am working through my weakness for him. Part of me wishes he would be lurking here so he could see for himself the anguishing emotions I feel for him and my improvements of myself.

Thanks and I will give you an update probably late tonight.

Glad to hear things are going well in your recovery for the most part.

FF

Hang in there. There's always next Wednesday when he has the kids again. If you extend the offer to babysit an additional day, you could say something like, "I know it's tough for you to go back and forth would it make it easier if I picked the kids up after my class (work, appointment, whatever)?

You not wanting to be weak and manipulated by H is based your fear that you will be hurt by it. As a result you try and protect yourself from experiencing this hurt by avoiding the behaviors that we know bring it about. Consequently, you've built a wall to protect yourself.

Walls and boundaries are often confused. Walls are for keeping people out, while boundaries invites them in. The difference is, with boundaries, there are certain rules attached. Next time you're afraid of feeling weak, or manipulated, realize that this is just your fear of being hurt again. Rather than creating a wall that keeps H out, invite him in by setting a reasonable boundary for yourself that you can live with.

Good Luck!!

Faith,

You have a good point on the built up wall. In the case of the babysitting situation if it arises again, what would be a good example of a boundry to set? I think what I was also trying to say is that I don't want to appear as the one to give in all the time. I know it is a part of doing things that make the spouse happy and not being the source of thier unhappiness, so I do need to keep that in mind.

I spent the better part of the day on the phone talking to people and trying to get through the day. At 3ish, I stepped out of house for 5-10 minutes at most to run errand, and came back to find a phone message from WH at 2:53pm. There was a bit of a pause before he spoke, but he left a message for our 2 younger kids who he knew would be home. WH usually makes his phone call to the kids around 6:30 - 7:30pm., but has made a few calls during afternoon, but not for a while.

So, of course I immediately started thinking that WH called knowing I usually answer the phone. I was so mad that I missed the call cuz it has me wondering now, what he would have said to me when I answered IF anything at all.

I almost cancelled my plans to go out tonight after class just in case WH would call later. Thankfully I didn't cancel plans, cuz he only called at 7:30 for kids while I was still gone, and did not call since.

Will wonder for a long time what might have been said at the time.

Take care,
FF

Hi, here is an update how wedding anniversary day went for me.

The day started off with me praying for WH and for God to send laborers into his life and so forth.

I surfed MB for a bit, then started to mope around house. I don't know how it happened but before I knew it, I had put our wedding day video in the VCR and watched the whole 30 min. It made me sob, but it also made me see WH very happy it appeared. I hadn't watched this tape in a few years.

It made me also think of possibly making a copy of it and adjusting it to a certain point in the ceremony and sending it along with some pics of kids and maybe of us in an envelope, just as you did Faith1960. The only reason I didn't jump up and get started on sending it is I just don't know if it would piss WH off more or not. Yes, I am fearful of the outcome if I do.

I may wait and do it after the holidays. Any suggestions out there?

Anyway, I was in no emotional state to provide the loving care my younger 2 kids needed so I took them to a friends, came home, prayed a lot and talked to relative and a friend for the rest of day.

The interesting thing was the time I stepped out of house to run errand for 5-10 minutes, WH called and left message at 3pm, He paused before speaking and then said a message for the kids. He normally calls at night, but has in afternoon a few times, but not in a while. SO I was thinking he may have called knowing I would answer phone and who knows what he would have said to me (aknowledge our anniversary?) Who knows. I was very disappointed that I missed his call cuz it has my curiosity peeked now.

I'm sure there will be other times. Rest of day went on uneventful. I got through it w/no acknowlegement from/to either of us.

Thats the latest. Gotta run and check on little one.

FF

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only reason I didn't jump up and get started on sending it is I just don't know if it would piss WH off more or not. Yes, I am fearful of the outcome if I do.

I may wait and do it after the holidays. Any suggestions out there? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would not do it. It could have exactly the opposit affect and remind him of all the terrible times in your marriage. Pictures of the kids would be good or pictures of just H and the kids. Leave yourself out of it for now. You don't need to remind him, because he has his own good memories, good and bad. Since the kids are a source of happiness for him, use that to your advantage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The interesting thing was the time I stepped out of house to run errand for 5-10 minutes, WH called and left message at 3pm, He paused before speaking and then said a message for the kids. He normally calls at night, but has in afternoon a few times, but not in a while. SO I was thinking he may have called knowing I would answer phone and who knows what he would have said to me (aknowledge our anniversary?) Who knows. I was very disappointed that I missed his call cuz it has my curiosity peeked now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is very interesting. The Lord works in mysterious ways and while you're disappointed, perhaps this is a test for your H. It's a perfect segue into 180 degree turnaround behavior.

Let's assume, H did call to talk to you because he knew you would be at home. But you're not! And you didn't call back! No doubt, he's wondering what else you have going on it your life? Keep up the mystery. And if you can, read up some more on Michele Weiner Davis 180 degree turnarounds.

Good Luck!