I really need help. I made a terrible mistake and had an affair. My husband and I have been in a terrible marriage for three years. He is emotionally abusive and neglectful to both me and my kids. I left him (the third time we've split up) and slept with my best friend. My husband and I have gotten back together, and he promised to go to counseling and do whatever it takes to fix our marriage. I was so happy, because all I ever wanted was for him to love me and be my friend, basically to treat me the way he treats his friends.
Last week he found out about the affair, and says he still loves me and wants to work through it, but won't stop making comments like "I don't want you to go out, because I don't know who you'll f***". Every time he says these things, I know in my heart that I deserve it, but I get depressed and self hurting.
We went to counseling where it was brought up that I am a continual liar, and that is true. I lie about EVERYTHING to EVERYONE in my life. In fact, I've had to re-read this three times to make sure it is accurate. My counselor told us this is due to extreme childhood trauma, but I can't remember any trauma in my life. I'm afraid and alone and I don't know where to turn. PLEASE someone help me. I need help.

Andrea

Andrea

Welcome to MB.

It is good that you to are going to counseling but I would caution you that many counselors are not specialized in saving marriages. If that is the case with your present counselor, then I would suggest that you consider getting in touch with an MB oriented counselor. Such a counselor would prepare a marital recovery plan based on The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage. You can find such a counselors through Marriage Builders Counseling Service. and Save Your Marriage Central . In the meantime I highly recommend that BOTH of you fill out The ENQ(Emotional Needs Questionaire) and The LBQ(Love Busters Questionaire) . Also read the Dr Willard Harley's books 'Surviving An Affair', 'His Needs Her Needs' and 'Love Busters'[I highly recommend this one] as well as Dave Carder's 'Torn Asunder' and Michelle Weiner Davis's 'Divorce Remedy'.

Last but definitely not least, BOTH you and your H need to avoid all love busters (the negative habits that destroy romantic love) such as:

1. Angry Outbursts - Who wants to live with a time bomb?

2. Selfish Demands - Who wants to live with a dictator?

3. Disrespectful Judgements - Who wants to live with a critic?

4. Dishonesty - Who wants to live with a liar? [does this one seem familiar?]

5. Independent Behavior - Who wants to live with a selfish jerk?

6. Annoying Habits - Who wants to live with a leaky faucet?

The Harley book 'Love Busters' goes into greater detail about each one of them with sample cases.

If the two of you can get yourselves to work in partnership and with equal committment, then your marriage will become a happy and healthy one for BOTH.

Andrea, Along with coffeeman's book list, it sounds like some individual counseling would be good for both of you as well as a very good MB based marriage counselor. It sounds like between your lying, and his emotional abuse and neglect, there are a lot of issues you both need to work out individually to help be better people in the M. If you can't identify with what the last counselor said about childhood trauma and the lying, go to a totally different counselor. I have a couple friends, and they, too lie constantly. I wonder why it is necessary - they are great people without all their tall tales. I don't know why they do it. (it was good to hear that at least you admit that it's a problem - my friends totally deny it.)

I just think that keeping the M together will be increasingly difficult if you can't come to the root of your lying, and he can't come to the root of his emotional abuse. Good Luck and keep posting - there is great support here.

Felina

thank you both and i'll try this. my husband just blew up at me about the continual lying, said i have to stop immediately or he'll have to end this. i'm really afraid because its something i've done now pathologically for about 20 years and he is the first one to really make me admit it. i dont know why we (people like me) lie, but i really need to figure it out soon. i'm a little confused about what i'm supposed to do. a lie to me is like anyone else telling the truth... comes without much thought.
my husband said to try to count to 10 before i answer any question, and not to relay stories anymore until i figure out what's wrong with me. Does anyone have any other tricks that might work??

We went to counseling where it was brought up that I am a continual liar, and that is true. I lie about EVERYTHING to EVERYONE in my life. In fact, I've had to re-read this three times to make sure it is accurate. My counselor told us this is due to extreme childhood trauma, but I can't remember any trauma in my life.

Get away from that counselor now NOW!!!

Do not go back to anyone who creates "repressed memory syndrome" to explain current behavior..
you counselor is toxic to you...


You lie because it gains you something...

does it gain people likeing you..
finding you more interesting.
does it gain keeping people from being close to you...
does it gain you feeling like you are someone you are not...

look for the gain...

You lie because it is what is currently "known to you" and feels "comfortable.
change is uncomfortable..
you must get in control of what comes out of your mouth..
you must own it as truth...


the more you begin to speak the truth the more it will become comfortable and less scary...

you start with each word you speak...
ARK

Andrea,

"My counselor told us this is due to extreme childhood trauma, but I can't remember any trauma in my life."

Many Therapest believe that we are all "hurt/traumatized". This doesn't mean that we were beat by our parents. Being born is traumatic. Taking that first breath is traumatic. Peeing in your pants in second grade is traumatic. I believe this is what he is talking about.

Somehow in your life you have found that lying "works" for you. Unfortunately we all, including your husband, have taken up behaviours that are self defeating.

It's up to both of you to find out what these behaviors are and mend them and/or learn to live with them.

BTW, this is my first post on this board, and my life is a mess. So what do I know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 06:47 AM: Message edited by: Put Out ]</small>

Andrea

The first step to healing you is to admit you have a problem. Well done for doing that. It is incredibly hard for most of us to admit our failings. You need to work this out and I think Ark is very wise. You need to get to the core of yourself to work out why you lie. It was probably easy for you (and I don't mean this rudely) to have the A, because at the end of the day, your lieing is habitual. For most WS the lieing becomes so all consuming that you can't bear it anymore.

I am sorry about your H's abusive tendancies. Having lived in an abusive M, I know how painful this can be. I sometimes think verbal abuse is worse than the physical aspects. The day my X found out about my A, he verbally berrated me for 16 hours. I thought I deserved it too. I cannot type here the worst thing that he chanted at me for an hour solidly - it would be deleted by the moderators. At that point, I thought I would break.

You need to show your remorse and your desire to repair your M and your inability to be truthful. You need to tell him you will do whatever it takes. But you also need to tell him that his abusive behaviour needs to stop. Believe me, you will not mend your M if he is not prepared to do this. I believe you are prepared to work towards resolving your own issues.

Read everything you can here. Get the books, get into IC for your lieing and MC for your M. Keep coming here, read as much as you can and post often to keep your sanity. It saved me.

POH, please post your story and we'll see if we can help you.

Wishing you well from rainy London.

Lisa

Lisa,

There are so many facets to my marriage and I don't want to put out one of those "Novel" post. I will in time.

70 Deg F here in Phoenix...kinda cold for us lizards.

BTW Andrea, please. whatever you do, don't visit verbalabuse.com board. It's a black hole for people on thier way out of their marrage and whom need to be victims. Absolutely no room for discussion.

thank you all. i will stay far from verbalabuse.com, never been there, but now dont wanna go there.
to reply to ark, as much as i am able, i'm not sure what i get out of lying. the earliest memory i have of lying was to my mother when i was about 5-6, and i got caught. my mother made it obvious that she was mad because i lied, and wouldnt show any affection to me for about a day. i got nothing out of it then, but i know that's where it started, because ever since then, i've lied continually. sometimes i lie to manipulate a situation to make me the 'good guy', but sometimes i do it to make myself the 'bad guy'. sometimes there are rewards to the lies, but those rewards are really short lived because soon after i get caught. not only do i lie all the time, i'm terrible at it and get caught every time someone challenges me on my story. the funny thing is, i know there are people who know i lie, yet they say nothing about it and never challenge the story. it's strange.
i guess my main reward is that when i lie, i can create my own world, whether good or bad.each one of my friends see me as a slightly different person, and as long as they never share the stories i've told them with each other, i'm safe. sadly, they're all friends too and share details frequently. thus, i'm caught.
ark, probably the most enlightening thing i've read is for myself to think about every word i say, but i need advice on how to make conversation 'a conscious choice'. talking is second nature to humans, we do it without thinking about word structure. we learn it as toddlers. i am not trying to excuse my behavior, but a lie to me is like a normal conversation to anyone else. i honestly do not put thought into it to wigh out consequence, i just say it.
the only example i can think of, is if someone were to ask you what you were wearing, you would list it off without really thinking about it, right? the words are automatic. if someone asked me that, the inverse would be automatic. i'd tell you i was wearing shorts if i was wearing jeans, and i wouldnt think twice about it. again, not to excuse it, but to help understand why i have such a hard time stopping. sadly, i havent much time to figure it out, since my husband demands immediate change.

Andrea,

Its not immediate change I demand, I told you before we were married that honesty is what I feel is the cornerstone to our relationship. I've been hurt by dishonesty all my life, and on our wedding day, I made it very clear. While we were dating, you always used to ask me why I kept my distance, and why I wouldnt let you get to close. You were aware of my past, and chose to marry me with the stipulation that I couldnt handle dishonesty at all. I've pointed it out over the last 3 years whenever I've caught you in a lie, but now after finding out about your affair, I look for it everday, I expect to find it, and I have, at least 5 times a day since I found out about your unfaithfullness, and its only been 4 days. I chose to stay and try to work through this with you, however, every lie tears me away a little bit more. I'd like to be able to help you in this, but I dont know what to do. When I hold in my anger, you go out and have an affair becuz I'm not meeting your emotional needs. When I point out the lies 1 at a time, I'm emotional abusive to you. I'm at a loss for how to deal with this, therefore I gave you the ultimatum to stop the lying, becuz either way for me it is a loose loose situation. Either you feel abused, or you feel neglected, becuz I hold in my disatisfaction, and begin to pull away physically. Dont ever question whether or not I love you, I think you know the answer there.

<small>[ November 29, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

ANDREA,

I would bet that one of the changes you could make is to stop thinking about what you want to reply back to someone when they are talking and take a moment to listen to what they are saying...

so often we all are guilty of already forming our own replies back to them...we stop listening to what they are saying...

an example of this is when you are in a group and have to go around and state your name...the truth is that most people in the group are so busy practicing their own name to themselves....very few listen to hear what anyone elses name is....

Our brains become accustomed to thinking and acting certain ways...the nuerons are used to firing that way...

communication patterns exist and we can often see where they aren't working when communication with our spouses breaks down...

We all need to look at our own communication patterns and see what role we play in them not working and see what we can change to change the whole pattern...

I confess to not really being concerned to much with why you do it as so much as you acknowledging you do it...reconizing it and then taking control of it...

It sounds overwhelming and difficult to do only because it is not what you are used to..not because it is difficult to do...

(it is at first but once you start new patterns and habits then they become the norm...it is important to replace old bad habits with good new ones...)


If you are on the receiving end of emotional abuse...know that while you can not control the other person you can certainly control your actions and your safety...

You need to remove yourself from each and every interaction and conversation that is an attack that is non-productive and where any real communication has totally broken down...

every single time...
you do not have to tolerate being verbally attacked...
but you do need to find a way to create a safe environment for your spouse to express his own anger and hurt as well...

just not abusively ...


obviously your marriage had problems prior to the affair..just the fact that you identify the OM and not your spouse as your best friend...is a huge warning flag...

sounds like lots of needs not being met on both sides of the coin...

to Andrea's husband..

I chose to stay and try to work through this with you, however, every lie tears me away a little bit more.
If your choice is to stay and work through this then the verbal attacks must stop...

based on YOUR choice and not her actions all onus of responsbility of not verbally attacking is yours to own alone....
and you can not work through this with verbal assualts...

never ever ever will it work...

ultimatums don't work either...you can't change or control anyone but yourself....

if you value and cherish eachother then both must stop the chaos that your own actions create....


Dont ever question whether or not I love you, I think you know the answer there.

love is not and never is will be words..
love is actions...
and verbally attacking
or withdrawing are not actions of love...

you two are not enemies you are husband and wife...
and the time is at hand to decide whether you are a team or not...

and if the answer is yes you want to be a team know that it brings great work to both of you...
in rebuilding or perhaps even creating for the first time a true union and team....

When I hold in my anger,
well that's not healthy or working now is it..
but neither is blasting away at your spouse..
you need to learn how to express your anger so your spouse can hear what you are saying...

you guys need a counselor that is pro-marriage with good communication tools to teach you both..
not one that wants to find child-hood trauma and divert the issues staring you both in the face...


ark

Is She Cheating On You?
By Laura Snyder

The gender gap is closing when it comes to cheating. Hard as it may be on your egos, boys, most studies report women being unfaithful almost as much as men. And the news gets worse. There's even enough research now to believe that they're better at it than you are.
Feeling suspicious? Just look for these clues.

She's questioning your relationship

Everything in your little love nest was going smoothly, then out of nowhere she starts bombarding you with questions about your relationship and your future together. If she develops a sudden interest in weighing the pros and cons of your commitment, it means she's got another offer on the table.

She's lacing up the gloves

She'll pick a fight over some ridiculous detail and then storm out of the house. Guess where she's going. It's a preemptive move: if she acts like you've done something wrong it allows her to leave without a guilty conscience. And pour out her little misunderstood soul to some other man.

She's feeling frisky

Your demure little sex kitten has suddenly turned up her devilish charm. Unfortunately all those wanton sex vibes aren't directed to you. If she's loaded with lustiness and you're not seeing a direct correlation in your mattress action, you might want to ask her why.

She's moved to study the mirror

She's logging twice the hours in the gym, spending the rest of her time primping in the bathroom and just invested half her paycheck on swanky threads and the new fall makeup line. Sounds like someone's out to impress somebody. Sure, it's possible she's doing it just to feel and look better, but unless she's sharing that "betterness" with you, someone else is getting it.

She's laying on the white lies

Oh, the tangled web she's weaved. It's those little fibs - "Oh, James? He's just a friend" - that eventually become the tell-tale sign she's two-timing. Don't let it slide if she says she stayed in for lunch when you know for a fact she was somewhere else. Call her on it.

So your plan is to be Andrea's warden and jailor and to move from any type of healthy rebuilding...and just do stuff like your previous post...

When does your accountability for your own verbal attacks play in to this...
when does your accountability for your own neglect play in to this...

time is precious and short...
and the time draws nearer and nearer for you to decide to continue to create and be part of pain and chaos...or to say that you have had enough...regardless of her actions, lies, and other garbage...

you alone remain accountable for your own self..
do you really believe that your post is helpful to her??

helpful to other WS on this board trying to heal and do what is right...
or are you so caught up in your own indignant justification to just lash back and do nothing else...

I would say that if you continue this path of non-productive accusations towards someone attempting remorse....then you are just as dishonest as she...
when you say you want to work things out...

are you ready to step up to the plate...Andrea's husband...or is the blame and self wallowing more of a payoff to deflect from your own behavior..

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ARK who is for healthy "venting" any day...but punishment and control...no one and no relationship can heal under that....

I didnt mean it to be punishing or hateful, or putting people down, was just an article I came across, and was hoping it might help others who read the boards. I can say that I have taken alot of what has been written here, and elsewhere to heart, and Andrea and I are working through our problems, and things are getting better day by day. We have a long way to go, and I think we both know that. On hindsight, This probably wasnt the best forumn to post that article on, and I do apologize to anyone I may have offended, and especially to you Andrea, I didnt mean to to be hurtful, and I'm sorry if you took it that way, I guess I too need to stop and count to 10 before I say or do anything right now.

OK Mr. andrea..
big apologies from me, I was rough...

sorry...
glad you posted back....

glad to hear you both are working on things...

ARK

Hi friends. I believe my husband had no intention to give the impression he gave. However, this is part of our issue. He does not intend for things to come across the way they do, but there really isnt a possibility of it coming across as he sees it. He say that message as a tool that might help people, I see it as a sign of his controlling nature. How might we fix this???
ps. he understands that other people take things differently than he intends.

Andrea if I had a dollar for every time a WS(wayward spouse) used the word 'controlling' when he/she referred to his/her BS(betrayed spouse) I'd be a multi-millionaire by now.

Andrea NO ONE is controlling you. If you CHOSE to be with your H it is because you want to be with him. Your H could have CHOSEN to share his love with another woman (Oh you wouldn't beleive how many married women are out there, who are so love hungry and vulnerable to an affair, but maybe you do know).

Andrea you will probably never lack for a physical lover. But how many of those lovers will be with you if tomorrow you were to become paralyzed from the neck down? Andrea please read my signature below and think thoroughly what it means.

I don't have a problem with post per-say...I had a problem with him posting it with no explanation, no reason behind it...

It may help someone questioning whether their partner is having an affair...
but he already knows you did...so that is why I didn't understand why HE was posting it...

also it can be "frustrating" in the sense when you directly address someone in a post..and they give you no feedback...

I agree whole heartedly with toomuch that no one is controlled without giving consent...

I also am a great advocate for those that choose to stay and work it out that there is a fine line between hurt and anger and punishment of the WS....

Both parties need to learn to express their hurt and pain in safe environments....not to supress the pain but to make it as productive as it can be...

I am not even much into the labels of 'abusive' but can see clearly where disrepectful judgements and put downs are harmful to recovery and serve no good communication tool.

but there really isnt a possibility of it coming across as he sees it. He say that message as a tool that might help people, I see it as a sign of his controlling nature. How might we fix this???

you fix this with exact explanation he gave that's all..
no big deal...

it's all in communication....

ARK