cons, only one.....violence...but if that is possible you should not be in the marriage anyways, and should leave.

There are other cons if one does not seek true intimacy, all the usual self-serving cons, having to deal with loss of respect for you, others unhappiness, etc. etc. If you want to use your H by removing his right to decide how to live his life, than it makes sense to weigh the pros and cons....of course that makes you a user of people, trying to decieve everyone you know about who you really are....not sure where that fits in to being a good person.

Sarie, you act as if you have a choice in the matter...you don't. There is no argument you can choose which will grant you the right to decieve your H of information we both know he has every right too. This is not about pros and cons, this is about morality, ethics, and right wrong.... it is not the affair that is so bad....it is the deciet that injures. The worst thing you can do to a human being is turn them into an object, dehumanize them, and the way you do this is take away their freewill to order ones life as we see fit. You cannot do this when you don't know all the truth about your life. You are one scarey person sarie, you would rob your H of his humanity, and say you love him.....you are using him, for what you want, a happy family, and to be thought of as a good woman. Well, you can get what you want, by stealing your H humanity, that makes you a sociopath...no matter what excuses you use.

re the affair, you apparently don't realize affairs never end until they are revealed....it will always be a special secret place for you..where your H doesn't live. It can't end until you allow him into that place, until he knows all you know....until that time another man has a part of you....

The thing about choices sarie is there are consequences, unescapable consequences. The "cost" of having an affair, is you will have to reveal it or divorce your spouse. If you stay married and keep it a secret you fatally damage your spouse by stealing their humanity....no matter how well you think you can juggle this, the damage is done, and will spread like cancer...it is spreading at this moment...your marriage ended when the affair started, you have using your H for 10 years, and continue to use him...makes no difference whether you see the om or not, the affair is still going on as long as the secret goes on. Affairs are not about ones body, or presence, or talks or letters....affairs live in the secret...and yours is still very much alive. You will not have a marriage until you give back your H humanity and he freely chooses you, you will only be his jailor. His happiness or unhappiness is none of your business, he is a man, a human being, a sovereign individual, how dare you decide what he can and cannot deal with.

Sarie,

You must tell. You had the affair because your emotional needs were not being met. How do you think they will be met by your H now if they were not being met before? If you do not tell you have the choice of staying faithful in the marriage you are in and not being happy, or having another affair in the future. That is not fair on you or your H.

I too had an affair that no one would ever have found out about, and that was over, but I told anyway. Yes my wife was devastated, but not as devastated as she would have been in another five years time if i had had more affairs.

She feels worse as she never knew there were any problems, but it was her right to know. I finally feel that 13 years of my concerns that our realtionship that I had been keeping secret are out. It feels great to finally be free to tell her the worries I have been keeping secret fotr 13 years !!! Honesty has to be the only way forward.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hate to say it but you are still involved in an A, an unrequited EA.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">cwmac made a very good point. Please search your heart. Sit in a quiet room for a while and think about this statement. Do you believe it is true? You say you are still in love will him and probably always will be.

lost-without-her, glad you have finally found peace. Sarie, I believe you will, too, if you talk with your husband. You must at least be seriously considering that or you wouldn't be here. No one wants to get whomped on by others for their decisions.

Think hard. I believe you will make the right choice.

Okay - I have the book in front of me - I'll list what she says - bearing in mind that she goes into explanations and detail on each point, but I don't want to copy the whole thing and deal with copyright infringements!!!

DISADVANTAGES OF TELLING.

1. You believe the revelation will crush your partner's spirit irremediably.

2. You believe the revelation will create and obsessional focus on the affair, and keep the two of you from examining the problems that caused it.

3. Your partner is physically disabled and unable to provide sexual companionship, and you choose to stay together to provide medical and emotional support to someone you care about.

4. You believe your partner will physically harm you.


ADVANTAGES OF TELLING:
1. Telling the truth is usually better than having your partner stumble on it.

2. Telling may increase your chances of staying faithful.

3. Telling may waken your partner to the need to address what's upsetting you before it's too late.

4. Telling reestablishes the primacy of your relationship with your partner.

She goes on to say that several infidelity specialists maintain that confessing the secret is a nonnegotiable first step toward restoring trust.

"...If you decide to confess, keep in mind that your partner's reaction will be influenced by the way he or she reads your motives. If you're perceived as trying to respect your partner's right to be as informed as you, your admission is likely to elicit a more positive response. If you come across as someone who merely wants to be absolved of guilt, your partner won't be as receptive or forgiving. Your intentions can be misinterpreted, of course, so it's a good idea to make them clear."

still more
..." Should you disclose the affair and fail to process what it says about you and your partner, your relationship will probably not hold together over time - or will merely hold together. Restoring intimacy takes more than a confession of infidelity. Should you neither disclose the affair nor process what it says about you and your partner, you may be lulled by the apparent lack of conflict between you and think that all is well again. But nothing will have changed."

She summarizes by saying that there isn't one solution better than the other. She says to make a thoughtful judicious decision, and that..." if an intimiate reconnection is what you hope to achieve, what matters most is not that you reveal or hide your affair, but that you use its lessons to strengthen your relationship."

I know the book is avail on cassette - so you could try that and listen to it in your vehicle!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sarie:
<strong>what OM fulfilled for me, this being needed, the affection, etc. cannot be fulfilled in the same way as my husband.

If it were that easy, we would not have these heartaches; we would never stray!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is wrong; I think you do your husband a tremendous disservice to believe he cannot meet your needs, and that you are not willing to give him the chance. Of course it's not easy!! It's hard, hard work, that seems to go on and on. But it's work I have been more than willing to do to bring my relationship with my H to a new level of intimacy.

You love so much about your husband - how incredible would it be to be able to capture a deeper intimacy and connection on top of all the good things? I would never have believed my H could do so much work, and be so successful at meeting my needs for conversation and openness. But he is!! I am sure he doubted I could meet his needs for SF and RC, but he is delighted to be oh so very wrong on that score.

But to have been condemned to NEVER having that chance? Your not telling is all about you, no matter how you try to dress it up to be about him.

One other concern: how in the world are you ever truly going to be able to heal yourself? You can't bring any books into the house to read. You can't go into counseling. You can't talk to any friends. This is you only outlet, and I do not believe it is enough for you to heal and move forward. We're good, but we're not THAT good! Would you consider telephone counseling with the Harley's?

Thank you Alberta for taking the time to type so much of the book's message about whether to tell or not to tell.

This stands out to me:
"She summarizes by saying that there isn't one solution better than the other. She says to make a thoughtful judicious decision, and that..." if an intimiate reconnection is what you hope to achieve, what matters most is not that you reveal or hide your affair, but that you use its lessons to strengthen your relationship."

Thanks to K and to all the others that have been advising me.
Sometimes I feel like I am the only one marching the wrong way! Kinda alone here with my decision not to tell...I think Beal is the only one that agreed it would be ok and this author also says it is often ok not to tell.

However, I have to do what I feel is right for us, for our marriage.
Maybe the number one reason not to tell would be the number one reason she listed; it would just hurt him too much and for what?

So I, ME, can have a better, closer more intimate marriage? No, I will not do it for that reason.

He is satisfied with the way things are right now, we are basically happy and get along quite well; not knowing is best. Sorry! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

My OM and I are both very thankful that our love affair was kept secret and no one was hurt. (By that I mean they don't know so thus weren't hurt.)

After reading many people's stories here, many have went on communicating with the Other Person even after admitting it to their mate so it really doesn't STOP the affair!

Actually, I probably will occassionally talk to the OM...He and I have a deep love and an enduring friendship, and I can't imagine it completely stopping. (The affair part stopping, absolutely but not the occ. phone conversations or once in awhile e-mails.)
Sincerely, Sarah

Sari,

It just goes to show you that you can find somewhere justification to support whatever decision you make. Whether it's the right thing to do or not of course it's your decision.

That said, I have to say that the wise thing to do would be to listen/read all that you can - become an expert on affairs (at least yours); consult with one of the Harleys - then make your decision with your eyes wide open having considered carefully all of your options.

If I had time at the moment, I would share with you what happened as a result of my husband telling me about his affair 4 years after he ended it. He ended the physical part at least, but continued to see the OW & talk with her occasionally just as you're suggesting you will be doing.

I just don't have time! We're 20 months post d-day and recovering nicely. I am so supportive of his decision to have told me even after all years that had passed before he did tell me. And believe me, there would have been no way I would have found out otherwise. It was the "perfect" affair! CSue

Sarie -
Certainly don't take an excerpt from a book as your sole guidance right now. I think her points are extremely valid and I urge you to find the book and read it ...find a way please.

I lean towards telling him, the fact that my H confessed made a huge difference to me. If I had stumbled on it (well, I did stumble on some info which I never thought was an A, until he felt compelled to confess) I think my reaction would have been different, and my ability to trust would have been so completely shattered we would never have recovered.
Carefully read the advantages of telling again. The book, of course, details each point with examples of situations etc.

The reason I like this book is because it does share both sides of infidelity. Maybe not telling him RIGHT NOW is right for you and him, but down the road, when you've absorbed the Harley prinicples, read some more, even had counselling, maybe you will be ready to tell him.
Either way, NOT dealing with your marriage and your personal situation will not serve either of you.

Best wishes.
AB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sarie:
<strong>


My OM and I are both very thankful that our love affair was kept secret and no one was hurt. (By that I mean they don't know so thus weren't hurt.)

After reading many people's stories here, many have went on communicating with the Other Person even after admitting it to their mate so it really doesn't STOP the affair!

Actually, I probably will occassionally talk to the OM...He and I have a deep love and an enduring friendship, and I can't imagine it completely stopping. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In other words, you fully plan on continuing to stab your H in the back. That is why you don't want to tell him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is satisfied with the way things are right now, we are basically happy and get along quite well; not knowing is best. Sorry! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Best for whom? It is sure not best for him. It is EASIEST for you so that you can continue to destroy him unabated behind his back. You don't want to tell him because you are a coward and because you want to leave open any options to continue the affair. So lets not pretend here that you care about your H. You don't and any thinking person can see that.

You are the LAST person who is qualified to determine what is in the best interest of your husband, He is your victim. You are victimizing him. The rapist does not get to decide what is the best path for the rape victim, but through some sick pathology, you believe you are qualified to decide what is best for your victim. And you can now add his new W to your list of victims, since you have said that you fully intend to continue your affair. I would suggest that you reread sufbd's post, because he was absolutely on target with his remarks.

you wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not want him to look at me through different eyes, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't want him to look at you through TRUTHFUL eyes. Because you know he probably would not love you if he knew who you really are. You are a committing a fraud.

Sarie, you are still deeply deluded in a fog and no one is fooled by your attempts to rationalize your continued deceit. It is selfish, cruel and manipulative.

Sarah (pretty and small),

I see you have arrived at a decision and having arrived at it there really is no reason for you to remain here driving people nuts. I hate to say it but Marriage Builders has nothing to offer you. You KNOW it all, you are not going to build your marriage, and you are not even sorry for what you did.

There was a study done recently(last year or so) and they found some remarkable things. One of them was that the more highly educated a person was, the more they felt they did not know. The converse was also true, those who hadn't finished high school, often felt they knew all that was necessary, not withstanding the fact that they were failing by just about any measure of life (divorce, poverty, children issues, etc).

I find your ability to deny remarkable. I find your treatment and thinking about your H just aborant. You really do think of him as your pet dog. Just pet him and he will be happy.

You now go on to say </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, I have to do what I feel is right for us, for our marriage.
Maybe the number one reason not to tell would be the number one reason she listed; it would just hurt him too much and for what?

So I, ME, can have a better, closer more intimate marriage? No, I will not do it for that reason.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this is not the height of selfishness I just don't know what is. You won't do it so your H could have a better marriage with a loving and honest woman. Surely there are women in your town better suited to be his W than you. You deny him the right to have a "better, closer more intimate" marriage with a woman that loves him. You don't want one, you are so self focused that you thought the comment was about YOU. It was about him. HE deserves a better marriage. You deserve what you will lyingly settle for so that your precious image won't get hurt. You are ONE VERY VERY SELFISH WOMAN. You are denying your H what you willingly sought and got from the OM. And you think God has forgiven you??? I think you might be in for a surprise.

I stated it before, and I will state it again, although I am not a biblical scholar, I do think a person must show and have remorse in their heart to be forgiven, and you are only remorseful that the A ended and in actuality it has not.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is satisfied with the way things are right now, we are basically happy and get along quite well; not knowing is best. Sorry! [Frown]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Best for you. But you DON'T know he is happy or satisfied. You yourself state that you never have deep conversations with your H, so you don't know a DAMNED THING. You are just covering your A$$.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My OM and I are both very thankful that our love affair was kept secret and no one was hurt. (By that I mean they don't know so thus weren't hurt.)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO one was hurt???? YOu have posted that you have been crying since Aug over OM. How can that NOT affect your relationship with your H and your children and grandchildren? How can your H being married to a lying adultress NOT affect him?? How can your marriage mean anything when you have without remorse broken your vows and lied. How can you marriage been the same since you gave your body to another man? No one got hurt??? Wait until OM marries this poor other woman, and he still thinks of you or calls you. It is possible that he has a higher view of marriage and vows than you do, then it will only be your H who got short changes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After reading many people's stories here, many have went on communicating with the Other Person even after admitting it to their mate so it really doesn't STOP the affair!

Actually, I probably will occassionally talk to the OM...He and I have a deep love and an enduring friendship, and I can't imagine it completely stopping. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you have a "deep love and enduring friendship" you are still having an affair. You say you asked for forgiveness, but you have not gone back to being married "forsaking all others" you are just playing games.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(The affair part stopping, absolutely but not the occ. phone conversations or once in awhile e-mails.)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are one heartless b*****.


I have NEVER said that to anyone on this site, but you truely fully meet that description. But, I am suspecting you truely are a troll here. There was another woman like you here for awhile, claimed to be having an affair with a priest right in front of her H. She finally left whether she was for real or not really did not matter. She was determined to continue her life as she had stated it, just as you are.

Sarah (pretty and small) I think it is time for you to leave and NOT come back until there is something here of use to you. It would appear that rebuilding your marriage IS NOT part of your plan.

God Bless you and more importantly God Bless the poor man you are married to.

JL

Just Learning, I don't know what to say. Part of me agrees with you and part doesn't. Compared with my time here, you've had to have seen many people come and go. You probably know right off the bat who is who and such. But I'll add some more 2 cents worth here from a piddly little optomistic short-timer.

If you look at Sarie's posts, she still seems to be waffling in whether to tell her husband. She is still attached to the OM, essentially still involved in the affair. But, she may indeed decide to tell her husband soon.

When I've read what people have written to her, I think she feels that her back is up against a wall and she is in a huge defensive position right now. Think about when someone, okay many someones, keeps pushing you ... it can rile up some feathers and make you put up your dukes and come out swinging. I could be wrong, however.

For her husband's sake, I truly hope she searches her heart, prays to God and decides to tell her husband ... for that is the only way she will find peace within herself and be able to make a true and right marriage.

Stung,

I fully agree with you, but because her "back is against the wall", I believe she should leave. When she seriously starts to consider telling him, or even seriously considers working on her marriage without telling him, THEN this site can be of use. As it is, it is simply a tug of war, and profits no one, in my mind.

Her mind is made up right now, she is still in the heavy fog, and she really hasn't started withdrawal. Why? Well, because although she says she hasn't been with OM since Aug. It is clear she has communicated with him and continues to do that. This fact coupled with her mindset, makes it unlikely that Marriage Builders will be of much use to her. Right now she doesn't want to build a marriage, she just doesn't want anyone to know she had an affair and that in her mind the "love affair" continues. Until that changes, it seems to me we have little to offer her, and her us (other than high blood pressure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Seriously, have you seen anything that anyone has said that has made a difference to her? Or caused her to change what she always announced she was going to do?? In all of her posts, I just see fog.

Hope you are more right than I. I would love to be wrong about this.

God Bless,

JL

Hi all.
Okay, I will stop posting here.
I admit I am in a big FOG.
And yes what all of you have said has penetrated my brain and I will think about telling him.

BUT, since I am still in 'recovery' with an extreme 'secret' sadness over not communicating with this other man, my special friend, anymore, I am just not ready to tell my husband yet.

Last night as he was laying on the couch and I covered him with a blanket and put our doggie on his feet, I felt so glad that he doesn't know about my affair.

So you all don't need to tell me anymore what I should do; this will be my last post.

I do appreciate all the time you have taken to try to steer me on the right path and to confess to my husband; more than likely in the next few months, I will tell him.

Then I will probably be back here for HELP!
Sincerely, Sarah <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sarah,

When you are ready for help, whether or not you have told your H, everyone here will be anxious to offer you their best advice. My best advice is for you to do some reading of the books mentioned and consider counseling. YOu do have issues to sort out.

I do hope you find it in your heart to love your H and give him a chance to be the H you want.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks Just Learning, I will read all I can.
My library has a lot of the books that have been mentioned.

And thanks for caring about my husband and me.
To tell him would be one of the hardest things I have ever had to do...

We lost our only son at age 18 from a car accident, now that was hard...Such a fine handsome auburn haired son.
Maybe it pulled us some apart instead of closer together, I don't know...No excuses!

And your strong words of advice did not offend me, Just Learning; they prove to me that you really care about my marriage.

I know I could have lied and told my new friends here the words that would have made you 'like' me but I have been very truthful with you.
God, how I don't want him to know!
Love, Sarah
I said I wouldn't write anymore but I am just replying to your note.

Sarah (pretty and small),

I know you stated earlier that you handled your grief from losing your son, by just moving on and not really expressing it to anyone least of all your H.

Permit me to make a suggestion, whether you tell your H or not about the affair, PLEASE tell him what is in your heart about your son. I don't know that anyone ever gets over such a loss, but I suspect you need to give voice to your pain, and your H is the man to hear it.

Go to your H, and tell him your son has been on your mind ALOT, and then ask him to just hold your hand while you express to H what you feel about this loss and how it has affected you. Do this for me would you Sarah? You need to let this go, and you need to show H the depth of your feelings.

I will warn you about one thing. Your H is very like to cry like a baby when he hears your words, and perhaps he will express his feelings on this matter to you.

I know as a father, losing any child is hard but I suspect one of the same sex is a bit harder because we see ourselves in our children and we hope that they will be US only better. Just a thought.

Please think about doing this. I would imagine this time of year is especially hard on you and your H in this regard.

God Bless,

JL

Ok, Just Learning, I will do that.
That would be a start, for us both to share this DEEP SORROW over the death of our son.
I grieved for the first month, but then hid my tears so as not to bring others down when around me.

Our son had such a bright future, he had just graduated from high school one month before he died...

Everyone adored him, he was a kind and caring boy...He was always so happy and smiling.
He was a football player for his high school and helped his grandpa (my dad) with farming...He loved to play chess, I could go on and on...

But I don't blame my affair on his death; if you read my story of what led up to my affair, it explains it pretty much. (No excuse there either.)
Love, Sarah

Sarah (pretty and small),

I grieve for your loss. In the HS my kids have gone to and the one my youngest is going to there have been several kids who have lost their lives in car accidents in the last few years. There is NOTHING one can do or say to compensate for such a loss.

I do hope you talk with your H about this. It is a start, but more importantly you BOTH lost your son and he may need your help as much as you need his.

God Bless,

JL

Just Learning, seldom post, but your intolerance of sarie's situation is heavy handed, she is on here , presumably to gain some insight and support. this tell at all cost sometimes comes with a price. do you promote the idea of telling terminally ill people that they are going to die shortly? sometimes , as Shakespeare said, ignorance is bliss when tis folly to be wise. speaking of ignorance you mentioned that as people's education level increases their awareness of the increase of things which they don;t know appears in increase faster than their gain in knowledge. yes its true. a reverse way of saying this is: there is nothing more cocksure than ignorance: people differ in their ability to handle truma. dont think because someone is 30 years old they are emotionally mature. Im quite certain you would not espouse the idea of telling kids things which they are not emotionally ready for and the same thing goes for adults. some are not ready for certain things which are traumatic. no matter their age. there is a hue and cry for sarie to not post because she doesn't yet subscribe to the party line? come on now. Many who are on this witch hunt with you are poster children for disfunctional lives. how on earth can you throw stones. did not your own problems not soften your heart some? If you were a therapist and had a difficult patient who didn tell you their problems in a way that you thought they should would you simply tell them to go away.Much of what you say is good and you have a decent way with your advice, but please show some tolerance. and by the by there are families where infidelity was never disclosed and for the better. this one shoe fits all is unrealistic. after all this board is to try and save marriages not test their limits. God Bless sarie

checkers

If you consider JL as well as the rest of us MB nazis as intolerant because you define tolerance as condoning not telling her H about her affair then we are guilty as charged.

Sarie may not agree with us about telling her H about her affair but she knows that we are giving her our views in the spirit of goodwill without any malice. I beleive that you could learn from her tolerance of our different views as well.