You say you are done with the board, but I think you need this board….I really do. I think you like it here and I’d like to see you rebuild some credibility, if you’re willing.

Going to butt in....

I really do not think that this board is a good place for her. In ways it helped the demise of her marriage....in ways it led to her affair. Please understand that is JMHO.

The time and energy spent here...interacting with the people in ways inappropriate...the concepts that were twisted for personal gain (remember the POJA incident)...the total disregard for ANY advice she was given...these things all contributed. I am not BLAMING MB...I am saying that I can see where it could have been a factor through HER poor choices. The slam fests on her H instead of giving her consistent advice to work on her herself only incited the already rocky situation.

The MB concepts have actually been applied heinously in ENDING this marriage. It is all fine and dandy if the marriage couldn't be saved...but I would hate to see the MB prinicples used to do that. POJAing contact with other men to balance out the porn use?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> The 'he's not meeting my needs so I'm going to find someone that will..afterall he is asking for it' isn't exactly using the MB principles as it should.

I really think that the time would be better spent AWAY from that...and better spent with IC and a support group IRL.

Nobody even commented on your “let’s see you” picture that I recall.

Just for the record... I was the one that mentioned BOTH the swimsuit photo and the boudoir shots as being inappropriate IMHO...but as ususal I was made the laughingstock of that thread for daring to voice MY opinion. The rest of the entire thread was devoted to constant digs about the "Sports Illustrated" swimsuit edition being the new MB album.

Respectfully JMHO
committed

star,

I know you mean well but IMHO your desire to help people on these boards (although admirable) may sometimes cloud your better judgment.

On the EN thread you acknowleged this: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...mg has never wanted to work on her marriage and has been acting out with men for a very long time. She has acted inappropriately in life and on this board for as long as she has been here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is the true fact of the matter although only a small part of the truth.

Don't let your desire to help mg overshadow her need to get the appropriate off-board help. This is not a good place for her and as committed said, the site has probabaly contributed to the demise of her marriage.

jmho
ba109

PS committed, sorry for posting in succession of your post. I know how that raises the hackles around here.

<small>[ December 02, 2003, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

Committed,

I'm sorry you feel like the laughing stock sometimes....I know that must feel awful, especially when you know that your POV has merit...and of course it often does....we often agree (and disagree). But a big part of why some of your posts seem to get dismissed (like the one about the pictures) is that they are so uniformly negative. Without anything except negative feedback from you, it starts looking like it's about you...and your issues, instead of being about who or what you're criticizing. Which is a shame you know that....because you have a strong voice....and I'd love to see you use it as morethan a just hammer. I'm not talking about changing your style....or being dishonest or a sugarcoater. I'm talking about your choice of subject...you choose the threads and people based on how much they irk you. You say MB is not helping Mg, and you could be right. But is Mb helping you? Because you seem angry all of the time and there are no details about your life out there leaving you exposed in any way.

<small>[ December 02, 2003, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

ba109,

I appreciate your opinion....and let me say for the record....MG, this board CANNOT help you get the kind of counseling you need to be healthy and feel good about yourself. I desperately want you to get the kind of professional help that you need to stop being so self destructive. I know you already have a counselor....and that's a good thing.

The purpose of my post is NOT to cloud that issue....but to help her face her responsibility in the way people react to here and give her a chance to try and rebuild credibility if she wants to come to this board. Her behavior must consistently change or I have no doubt that the powers that be will eventually ban her anyway. I for one, have no intention of remaining quiet if I think attachments and flirtations are going on here. I expect that neither will anyone else and that mg will be under lots of scrutiny.

Do you think if she starts generating more complaints again....after THIS, that she won't get booted? Cause I think she will.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong> Committed,

But is Mb helping you? Because you seem angry all of the time and there are no details about your life out there leaving you exposed in any way. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">MB is helping me in my new relationship, yes. When you think about it, MB is just reinforcing the concept of not doing something to my partner that I don't want done to me. It also is parallel to the compromise (POJA) concept in a relationship.

My relationship is going wonderfully for both me and my Guy. Does that mean that only people with strive in their relationships have a reason for being here? I actually thought that people wanting to keep their relationship happy could particpate.

I really don't think that I sound angry all the time. I think that my posts come across like that to some because I use few words. I don't use ((((hugs))))...and I don't dish out the endearments....the darlings...the huns ...the chere. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I am not an angry person, I tend to get a bit aggravated when people cannot see the forest for the trees and I could be quick to point that out...and with few words.

I am a person of few words...why go on and on and on when the point can be made with two sentence? Is that considered cold and angry? Is that what makes it appear that way?

I know that you must have spent hours composing and posting your comments on this thread. Did my respecfully disagreeing with you somehow detract from that?

I feel that you are turning this somehow in my direction...for me to validate my reason for being here....my reason for posting to people. Am I mistaken? I have (at times) helped people...or at least they have told me that I have.

In order for this to get back on the track that it needs to be on...I probably need to back out and let others more MB savvy to be the ones that post.

One parting comment...

I can remember a comment being made back in June....by an MB veteran mind you (4 digit number), that mg was being validated right into an affair and he/she encouraged people to stop the validating cheering section. I saw some wise words from that veteran back then...and I see that those words HAVE come to fruition. That is what is truly sad.


Oops....I forgot to address this comment...

I'm talking about your choice of subject...you choose the threads and people based on how much they irk you.

I DO this ...or you perceive me as doing this? I actually think that I choose threads where I have BTDT...and ones that I feel I have something to say that might help someone look at it in a different way.

To actually say that I do...would be a DJ...right?

Respectfully
committed

<small>[ December 02, 2003, 08:25 AM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

committed,

I completely agree that your short posts may very well make it sound like you are angry sometimes even when you aren't. This isn't about you....and I don't want to make it that way. Your respectful disagreement did not detract from post....and as you know we often agree....including right now. Mg is not being helped by this board. And she has not been a positive influence on the board. Now, that being said...do you think that means she'll stop posting? I don't. And if she's going to post, wouldn't it be better if she understood why she constantly has people up in arms? Do you think she's heard, understood, or made progress in this regard by the posts in the past....I don't. And one reason is because they immediately put her on the defense. You know the drill. Somebody calls down mg....she gets defensive or feigns innocence. Then someone defends her and she feels validated....and NOTHING changes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong> committed,

I completely agree that your short posts may very well make it sound like you are angry sometimes even when you aren't. This isn't about you....and I don't want to make it that way. Your respectful disagreement did not detract from post....and as you know we often agree....including right now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lord knows...I didn't want it to be about ME.

I saw something good in what ZP did. Of ALL the people on this board....ONLY ZP could have said those things and Christian love and kindness show in the post. I did not want her words to be downplayed and I apologize for wrongly perceiving your words as doing that.

I really value ZP's advice and take on things. Her Christianity literally shines through her posts....she has a value system that I admire. She is an asset to the MB Board.

Shall I back out now so that it's back on track?

committed

Committed,

There are few posters I respect more than ZP....she doesn't have an ugly bone in her body. I would never want to detract from her message (and I sure hope I didn't <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )....but I still had the impression that mg wasn't "hearing" it....because of her reaction. I know that what ZP would like more than anything....because she is who she is....is for her message to be heard and understood....not as an attack, but as an honest plea to mg to acknowlege that she hasn't used this board wisely, is willing to address that and willing to try and post responsibly.

As far as you backing out....NO....Please don't. I hope you won't. I am counting on you to help mg communicate in an appropriate way and understand how she alienates people. It would help alot if you could do that in such a way that she can tell it's because it's wrong (say why)/hurtful(say why)/unMB(say why), and not because she perceives that you don't like her. You don't have to like her....there's no prerequisite for posting that says we have to like eachother or hug eachother (bleck). But say why committed....explain your feelings and get your meaning accross....because you know you've been on the money a whole bunch of times and you don't get heard.

Star & Committed,

I think this is a good discussion, but I wonder if it should have it's own thread if you think it warrants more discussion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Star,

I think Committed, though blunt, has wise things to say. I think she has toned it down, especially in regard to MG, but I do think MG is distracted from her advice by her earlier perceptions. Her recent posts, and BA's, have shown that they really do have genuine concern for MG. They showed exactly why they have been reading all this time and I do not think it's because they were angry...just concerned for ALL involved.

I, as I have said, do not think MB is the place for MG right now. I just think it's a distraction for her because she comes here to "play." There's nothing wrong with that, but in the time she's been here, it seems she's gone backwards. She does not seem to connect herself to the principles, using phrases like "what you all would call ___" and the like. It seems she REALLY does NOT buy into the principles at all. If not, how can they help her? I think she'd be better helped to take her "board" friends to email (preferably female--and you know I hope you would be one) and maintain her RL support and IC.

Again, Committed, Star and BA,

Thank you for your support and kind words. I hope that all of this proves helpful for MG.

Petals

No, you all are right. This isn't the place for me and probably never has been. It was fine when I was feeling so horrible all of the time, but now that I am beginning to feel free and happy for once in a long time BECAUSE I'm getting out of my marriage...I just don't fit in, obviously, since that's against all of the rules. It also doesn't go along with my personality at all. I'm looking for something more lighthearted and accomodating and not quite so gloomy and grim. Life is too short to be so miserable and hateful all the time. Thanks to those who did try to relate though. I am thankful for meeting the several wonderful people I did here and will continue to think of you and wish you well.

mg:

"Most of my (flirtatious) comments are truly meant in an innocent, joking around manner, both here and IRL, and they are made just totally off the cuff, without even thinking about it. I've done it for years, it's just a part of who I am. It's never been a real problem until now, and man, what a huge problem it is. I'm not excusing my behavior at all"

No, it is not a part of who you are, it's part of how you behave. We can change our behaviors, our habits. And sometimes we probably should, particularly when they're harmful 2 us or our loved ones. You can do this, and I think you realize that you will even2ally need 2 do it.

Star: Minor correction about the pictures. Faith1's "MB Photo Album" thread predates the one that mg's pic2re was on. I still think they're innocent enough, but then I'm one of the older dudes on the boards. I have no difficulty recognizing that mg is a pretty girl. But I have no difficulty separating that recognition from my "urges" 2 "have" something I have no business wanting. My daughter is a pretty girl, too (and older than mg). I can see that. I have no more difficulty keeping my recognition of mg's beauty in entirely appropriate context than I do my daughter's. So, like I've said on many of mg's threads on the subject in the past year, I take issue with the generalization that all men are gaga over an innocent pic2re of mg posted on one of the pic2re threads - I wasn't.

-ol' 2long

Thanks 2long. The other photo thread that predates the "let's see one" wasn't on the EN board....but that is true. I was talking about the men who replied at that time the photo was put up...being gaga LOL. I didn't mean all the men (on the board), but thanks for qualifying that statement because there are many men here who have shown the proper decorum....you included. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ December 02, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

As somewhat of a newcomer, I hope what I say is not out of line and certainly has no intentions of disrespecting anyone.

To me the MB messageboard is a place where virtually anyone is free to post, vent, complain etc about marriage or MB related material (aside from outright "trolls" whose posts are likely moderated out). Everyone is entitled to their opinion regardless if it falls in line with MB principles or certain religious beliefs. All that is asked before you sign up is that you be familiar with the MB concepts. There is no test that must be taken and passed to be given access to post. In the short time I have been here, I have seen all types of people, young and old, from all walks of life posting their thoughts here. Almost immediately I was able to distinguish who the experienced posters were, and which people were greatly respected among the group. Star..Petals, Takola, Cerri, TMCM, etc....it was obvious to see why. All of these different people with different opinions, some with well-defined roles within the group, is what makes this places such a dynamic, colourful and interesting place to learn and grow.

That said, I just wanted to say that I am saddened to think the MG is likely feeling alot of pain, very unwelcome and alienated about now. It matters not to me that alot of this was brought on by her own doing.

To me, it is quite simple - if you find MG's posts frustrating, unnerving, offensive to the point where you feel she doesn't belong here and essentially want to "kick her out of the group" ...don't read them, and don't reply to her. Let the moderators handle it if necessary.

MG's behaviour and posts make it clear to me that she is hurting very much inside right now, and probably feels very alone. Correct me if I am wrong, but this is a public internet support group and she has as much right to post here as anyone else does?

I apologize in advance if there's more going on behind the scenes (perhaps with MG and moderators) that I'm unaware of.

Jilliana,

You are not out of line. You are right that anyone is FREE to post here and I do not buy the "I brought this on myself" stuff. MG has made choices.

Please notice that I have never said, "Leave and don't come back." I'm tempted to tell MG to "keep on going" but I mean that to say "Keep striving" and don't want it to come out as "Don't let the door hit you on your way out." That's not me and I NEVER want to be that way to ANYONE!

MG has the right to post here and I do not have any desire to MAKE HER LEAVE. By me, she is not "unwelcome." Perhaps others say that or think that, but I don't. I think eventually this will be a good place for her.

I have shown, I think, that MG does not want to identify with the concepts here and tries to hold herself at arm's length. As long as she is trying to defend herself and putting out signals and getting validated for wrong things (as in flirting and other things) this place is not helping her and she is dangerous to this place...in my opinion. That is not ushering her out to never come back. That is saying, "You've gotten as much help as you're going to get right now. Get good help and when you're ready (as in not distracted), come back. Notice I did not put stipulations on her being married. I think she can be ready for this place before that and hope she will take advantage of the helpful material then.

I am not saying she doesn't have the right to post here. I AM saying I don't think it's beneficial right now to anyone that she post here. If she continues to post along the same vein, I will choose not to read or reply.

I keep replying because I want, as Star said, to be understood. It may seem like an attack, but with God's help (and only with His help) it is done with a pure heart, and will hopefully not be harmful but helpful, even if it hurts some now.

I reply to MG in Christian terms because she has indicated that she is a Christian. If she was once saved, she always will be, and hence she and I will be in eternity with Lord together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I hope that clears things up a bit.

Petals

Jilliana:

Of course MG has every right to post here, but go back on the thread and read---did anyone directly tell her NOT to come back? Starfish merely suggested that this may not be the best place for her since it's not meeting her needs at all.

I recognize where you're coming from--I'm always the first person to suggest that everyone has the freedom to voice their opinion, but in this case, MG continues to use that angle to manipulate people on the board.

If you do a search of MG's member number in the EN forum, you'll be able to check all of her controversial posts from the past. Count how many of them end with her signing off from the board, forever. It's her way of gaining sympathy and acceptance.

I have a feeling that MG has psychological problems that stem from her childhood, rather than just her marriage. This would explain her behaviour here.

My post was not directed at anyone specifically.

Petals - another poster summed up thoughts of you quite well:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Her Christianity literally shines through her posts....she has a value system that I admire. She is an asset to the MB Board.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am only trying to communicate that I really hate to see someone being/feeling alienated.

And if she wants to angle and manipulate..let her. You can change your reaction...detach yourself. She may soon find herself posting in isolation.

You don't have to outright say "go away, you're not welcome here, don't come back etc..." for a person to feel alienated. I just don't think it is anyone's place to shun someone, or have someone feel unwelcome. Silence, I think, would be better.

Believe me, I have gone back and read this thread. I have gone back and read all of MG's threads over the past while to try to make some sense of it all and determine where she's coming from.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but now that I am beginning to feel free and happy for once in a long time BECAUSE I'm getting out of my marriage...I just don't fit in, obviously, since that's against all of the rules. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A big part of why you feel free and happy is because you're escaping (not seeking to solve) marriage problems and are all fogged up and drunk on the EMR. In the long run....you'll take an even bigger fall than before....I can't be happy about this mg. You've been drunk before haven't you? What happens when you wake up the next morning and figure out all the stupid things you did the night before? The things you were trying to escape...are still there...and they've been compounded by your antics and the poor way you've learned to deal with them. The only LASTING happiness there is mg is liking who you are and living with grace. Leave if you want to, because you're right....this isn't a playground or chatroom, so if you just want blanket acceptance for your behavior just because it feels good right now....you will not find it here. I still hope that won't be your choice.....or that you will return like ZP says when you ARE ready to look for REAL freedom and happiness.

Jiliana....your post was not at all out of line. I'm glad you're here can offer the perspective on someone just arriving. You are welcome here.

Mg.....go with God.

(And don't let the door hit you in the..a a a ...aspirations <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) Come back when you figure it all out.

Thank you Jilliana.

And thanks Star*fish...I am really trying hard not to run from my problems, I am continuing in IC, journaling, talking with family and friends about the emotions I feel and how to work through them, I just can't tell you what a RELIEF it is to get away from my toxic marriage. It was horrible and I feel so free now. Even though H wants to get back together, I realize now more than ever that I just can't...not becuase I am "running from my problems" but because he is toxic to me, and maybe me to him, I don't know. I tried to be a good wife, I really did. Of course I wasn't perfect, but I really tried to be there for him and wait for him WAS faithful up until the very end. Then I broke. That also shows me it's over. I cannot fight anymore.

Anyway, even when I do "get it all together" I don't think this will EVER be a good place for me. I won't say that I may not lurk just because of how long I've been here, but I cannot relate to many people here at all. I do not look at life or marriage in the same way as a lot of MB'ers. I have been slaughtered for that many times (I'm not speaking of the "offensive" things I've done, just the mere fact I don't wholeheartedly agree with all of the concepts) and I don't need that anymore. It's ridiculous to stay somewhere that you so obviously don't belong, and that's what I've done for sooo long. But good luck to all of you. I will try to control myself and not "contribute" to anymore threads. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Okay maybe I missed something....in fact I know I did but......

I am deeply bothered by ANY attempts to direct a poster's behavior unless it is blatantly against the goal of this forum.

I did not see anyone's picture, I did not read anyone's previous post on another part of marriage builders.

However does it matter? I mean we all ride the rollercoaster at times. And I suspect our posts reflect that...up one minute down the next and so on.

Some posters are admirable and some are arses. Some I agree with some I wish would move to another planet.

Still I would never attempt to make another poster feel unwelcomed. I would avoid there threads like the plague if they bothered me at the same level apparently it bothers some of you here.

But if a poster wants to make themselves look foolish I think as long as they aren't flaming or deliberately lashing out they should be given white makeup and a rubber red nose and allowed to make a clown of themselve if they so chose.

Not that I am saying anyone besides me makes a clown of themselves here....... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi stunned! You said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am deeply bothered by ANY attempts to direct a poster's behavior unless it is blatantly against the goal of this forum.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, I agree....and that's pretty much how most people saw it too. Read the recap at the top of page 2 (if you didn't) I really tried hard to help mg understand why folks get so upset with her....and I also tried to get her to stay and work on her marriage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />