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Sally,
I had just typed this post, cutting close to my outpatient appointment - then BAM! That crazy log-out feature logged me out when I pressed “post reply”…..all gone. Please accept my apology for the lateness of my post.
Sally, I know you are hurting. I was hoping I could play this out with you before he replied (or even hoping he might not reply) because I think you have discovered the hard way…..That NOTHING will make this any easier.
Others will say “isn’t this what you wanted?” “isn’t this what you needed?” “he obviously has made his choice - move on.” And you think begrudgingly “yes, this was what I wanted.” BUT the real fact of the matter is that These feelings are not the result you expected . This did not make it any easier, did it? So let’s take a couple of minutes and look at all the options here:
1) He could have not responded at all - you would be left pining for him. You would feel like he discarded you without the decency of even letting you know. You would feel used. You would be left with the ambiguity of whether he really wanted you or not. You would be “wishing” and “dreaming” of finality. Not easy . 2) He could have sent you the letter he did - because the letter is not “concretely” final, you are still left with some ambiguity. Yet it clearly is in favor of his W, so you feel oddly rejected. You were leaning on him for your self esteem, and now that he does not want you, you find yourself feeling unwanted or undeserving of anybody. You feel worthless. Your self esteem had already taken a self inflicted blow with the A - but now rejection from OM? Wow - that one stings even more. Not easy . 3) He could have sent a letter expressing his undying love for his W - if he said the A was wrong - that he wanted to reconcile with his W….again, you would feel rejected. He would have been doing the “right” thing, and apparently you weren’t good enough for him. You would have played the “what did I do wrong” game all over again. And yet, you would realize that maybe he was not such a horrible person - just someone who made a mistake? Then you would continue to pine after him. Not easy . 4) He could have sent you a letter expressing his undying love for you and his intentions to leave his W for you - you, oddly enough, would feel very sick knowing that you would then have to make a decision b/w OM and H. You would realize you cannot - will not leave your H and your family. So in essence, you would carry the guilt of OM ruining his M for you - and yet, you would still feel the same withdrawal and loss as you do now. Not easy . 5) He could remain completely ambiguous - you would be pushed into a position of choosing, pining, and possibly even continuing the A. In essence, you would go back to your previous lifestyle, again risking your M and your family. Odds are that you would just be postponing the inevitable….the end of the A - and you might just lose your H and family in the process….. Not easy .
I hope you are able to see my point here (I am pretty sick today, so I am probably not making much sense). There is no easy way out of this . You can “what if I had done this” or “what if we had been this” all day long…..but the point of the matter is that IT IS OVER - THE A IS OVER! - no matter how you look at it. Now you must accept this in your heart, and experience the loss. No one said it will be easy….because it won’t be. But it is doable. Trust me on that.
At this point, any reply to OM is really moot. Because it is over, a reply will do nothing for you or against you. It means nothing unless you plan to rekindle something later. Or unless you are using it to ask him to no longer contact you. But anything else really has no point. So as far as I think…..reply or not…..it really makes no difference IF the A is truly over.
In the meantime, start to work on yourself . Start to rebuild yourself with honesty and dignity . While it takes a little longer to rebuild with those qualities than it does on flattery from others, it is a more solid and fixed foundation. And in the end, it will hold you higher and stronger than any outside source. Do some reading to take away from the “fantasy” side of the A. Read Torn Asunder and see how “stereotypical” the A was. Start to really imagine what it would be like if you had chosen OM - split holidays with the kids, lonely nights alone, child support, dividing assets, and the incredible loss, guilt, and disdain if it didn’t work out with OM. Find out what the source of your pain is - most A’s involve a large component of unresolved pain in the WS….the unmet ENs are simply what led the M to be vulnerable….but usually the betrayer will have some underlying issue that needs to be identified and addressed. Find that in yourself .
Look deep into yourself, Sally. Experience the loss. Grieve. But also look at it as an opportunity. I don’t know if you ever watched the Never Ending Story when growing up, but it reminds me a lot of that movie. Fantasia was destroyed, and in the end, only he, the princess, and one tiny grain of sand remained. It was up to him to take that grain and build his new world….anything he wanted - any dream, any desire, any hope. You have the same opportunity - your H (the person who cares about you, who is generous enough to offer forgiveness, who loves you more than life itself) is handing you that grain of sand. You can create a new world. It may not be the same as your old fantasy…..but it can be just as good, if not better - because you both will have created it together.
Sally, allow yourself to experience the loss - don’t wallow in it - but feel it and let it pass….because it will. I promise.
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good lord <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Sally take the "good bye" and run as far as you can in the opposite direction and into your BH arms.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> oh god guys WHY do i read into it that i wasnt supportive enough for him and too needy and THATS why he seems angry. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does it really matter or are you going to be his lap dog the rest of your life?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he wasnt ready to let me go?? do you think that is true? or was he just waiting for me to let him off the hook?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My first thought was "who the "f" cares if he wasn't ready to let you go." How many crocodile tears is he goes to shed this time?
Let him go so that you can be heathly. You weren't supportive enough -- dang isn't that for he and his wife to deal with? You were too needy? (wish the vomit graemlin was here or even the coughing up a chicken) baaahhh.
YOu don't need him .. stop letting him control you and tug on your heart strings.
NC now and forever ... don't respond ... get a new email account, close the old one and get on with fixing YOUR marriage.
way2
im so upset.....i do thank you all here for being my support.
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lost in tx, just wanted to let you know that when that happens to me I just log in and then press my back button until it comes back to the thread I want to reply to. Then press reply again. There you go ... wa la! Maybe it will work for you.
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Thanks, Stung <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I will have to try that little trick. I got some message I have never received before on here....when I hit post reply, it said I left out a piece of information - my personal name???? Then it wouldn't let me go back to my post....
Who knows. I am using dial up from my work, so that could be it!
Thanks for the tip - I'll try it next time.
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Thank you all for your insight.
STupid questions here:
Why do I feel the need to be validated by HIM? Why isnt my H's validation and love enough?
What is wrong with me? I mean in my 30 years of life, what could make me feel this "need"?
LIT~you say that this letter isn't concrete?? I see it as what he wanted to say when he asked for his break 21/2 weeks ago and now me "bugging" him just gave him the out to say "well it has to be this way"
I really don't beleive he had any intentions of ever "cossing my path again". All of this makes me feel even MORE useless. Like how could he just throw me away?
You know, at this point in my life I have so many people who say "Im this or that, or in the best shape of my life, even after 3 kids " I'm better then ever" blah blah blah and yet, I cannot recount a time where I have felt so worthless.
I was SO tempted to email him to comfort him to say I wanted to be ther for him for what he is going through.
GOD!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
You know I went and bought cigarettes (quit for 9 years) today..what the f**k is wrong with me?
You know guys, if I were you all I may be tempted to say P*SS on her with this behaviour I display that I FULLY know is the MORALLY and ETHICALLY wrong, deep feelings or not.
Sorry to ramble..
S.
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Sally
Maybe part of "need for validation" is really a basic reaction to being dumped. We human's tend to want what we cannot have.
Perhaps, you are drawn because you don't want to believe that after 5 months of talking and sharing the most intimate details and having a ONS, the guy got what he wanted (sex)and now is back home with his wife. You feel stupid and used.
Lots of guys and gals will play with people's feelings, especially if they seem needy, just so thay can get what they want-sex.
Be thankful that you have a H and kids that love you inspite of your mistakes.
Beau
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Sally
I am right there with you girl. I feel the same way about the OM and wanting/needing validation. I think that deep down we realize that we were used and that is very very painful. The OM in my case confessed to having "special" feelings for me. He apologized for any hurt, pain and anguish that he may have caused. He says that it was never his intention to hurt me. I totally accept my blame for this A but what kills me about him is that he knew how vulnerable and tender hearted I was as the start. Why couldn't he have "Played" someone else!!! I'm not a game player and could never just have an A for the physcial part. I felt/feel something for him special still and that infuriates me with myself. My husband is 10 times the person that he is, so why do I still have this pain of needing his affirmation!!!
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Sally
I am pulling for you!! Everyone here is. Please keep me posted on how you're doing. Maybe we can help each other out a little bit.
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Sally,
You asked why your H's validation doesn't mean anything. Excellent question and in my mind it goes to the heart of having an affair. You see your H doesn't count, that is how you could have the affair and not feel bad about it. "He is my H, he has to feel this way." This statement and others often made by WS's show how the perspective is warped.
Let's consider this. Would you value the word of an expert in the field over someone who dabbled in the field? Would you value the evaluation of a physician or the evaluation of a quack?
Right now you would value the word of a novice or a quack, rather than that of an expert. Your H knows you better than anyone and he loves you and is staying with you although you have hurt him deeply. Who in this life has seen you in the light that he has, and yet he feels you are WORTH the pain and the effort.
You have felt that the feelings of a strange man were more important. The feelings and dedication of your H hasn't counted. But, this man that you value the opinion of is not really part of your life. He just passed through and has brought a lot of heartache to many people, yet you set your self-worth by his opinion and his choices.
Do you see the "illogical" thinking, the "fog" that everyone talks about? You are ignoring the fact that your H, the man who dedicated his life to you, thinks that you have worth. Your children think you have worth. You family probably thinks you have worth. Your friends think you have worth.
YET, it is this man sending you a poorly written "Dear John" that is establishing your worth??
Sally, time to come out of the fog girl. He was nothing but a toy, and you were nothing but a toy to him, enhence he could throw you away. But, that is because you value to him was minimal. He never saw your worth.
You have decisions to make, and one of them is to start to give your H credit for being a discerning human being who does know what he values. He is not some love struck idiot! He is a man that knows the worth of things including his commitments and he knows better than you think what is inside you. If he simply went by actions as you are doing with OM, you would be gone from his life. He sees you in ways you cannot and OM cannot.
Please think about this.
God Bless,
JL
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Sarah - it is true I do not know Sally's whole story. If she has followed the recovery process outlined by Dr. Harley, she has already sent the OM a "No Contact" letter. If not, she should, and her husband should look at it and enthusiasticly agree with what it says before she sends it. To quote Harley: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My summary of that is:
1. What we did was hurtful to my spouse/marriage.
2. I love my spouse and am committed to working on my marriage.
3. Therefore, to protect my marriage and those I love, I do not want to ever have any contact with you again. I will not contact you again. Please respect my wishes and never contact me again.
Personally, I think the OP's spouse should get a copy, to, and Harley has also said that he believes the OP's spouse should be told in all cases.
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Hi everyone;
Well, I totally failed myself, and everyone else (you all included)...I cried so hard today, all day....I felt like I was such a failure...and I emailed OM back. But, not the kind of letter it should have been.
I asked him what kind of problems he had at home that were perplexing him (he never in 10 months really elaborated on specifics with his wife other then they got "too comfortable"). Told him I wanted to be there to be a support for him as he was for me. Asked him, no practically begged him to talk to me.
So after hitting send, I puked. I came back, re-read and re-read that letter. I sat back and thought how pathetic I sounded and how much of a turnoff that would be to me, if I were him. I sounded like an utter loser.
The whole afternoon I was beside myself, thinking "how did I get this way?" I mean, I practically was drawing my breath based on his acceptance and praise of me. What the f**k? To email me that letter, which now that I go over it seems so to the point and cold, shows me that he could care less about me.
Have a wonderful life???That almost seems like it was sarcastic.
I was a mess today...screaming at my kids when we should have happily been decorating our Christmas tree.
I smoked this afternoon like a chimney.
I actually felt like running away form the house and kids and just NOT being me.
Then I did it.
No NC letter....I made my way to the computer and I CLOSED the email.
I think I was having heart palpitations at the time. I was mixed with tears and fear and anxiety that I felt that I was going to pass out.
So there, it's done....and now, to be honest, I sit here VERY upset at work. Alone, and sad. Sad at what I THOUGHT I lost. Sad at what I have now gone through in the admittance of the A to my H and sad at the prospect of the difficult road to rebuild my M(albeit the difficulty is brought on by my own selfish actions) with my husband.
Until March 2003, I was a model wife and mother and nurse.....somehow, I lost my identity, and I dont know who the h**l I am. I just know that right now I feel like going to sleep for a year and waking up with only very foggy memories of HIM.It's when I was sad like this that I wanted to talk to him and at this moment, I miss him....and that pisses me off.
THe only thing is (not that I really feel he wants anything to do with me) he has my cell phone #. I dont think he really ever plans to "cross my path" again, so it isn't a huge concern.
So, if anyone is around that wants to chat...Im here at work, and all the crazy patients (I work psych) are sleeping.
It's eerily quiet and giving me too much time to reflect.
Thanks guys, Sally.
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Sally
Have you tried an antidepressant medication to help eliminate the obsessive nature of your attachment?
Beau
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I dont think that will work (been on em before more then once).
I think time, and alot of it will be the only answer.
Maybe some counselling to find out how someone can have a loving spouse and still need afirmation to feel whole from a stranger.
So DONT want to be....I really mean this...my husband deserves someone better--someone not so screwed up.
Ya know, it isnt even the fact that I am like this that really is upsetting, it is not knowing why or how I turned into this that really bothers me.
S.
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Sally
Just some thoughts...
Many times unmet emotional needs from childhood drive us to do things as adults that we are totally unaware of. And, of course, sexual abuse can also drive many to repeat behavior that they find appauling. This info probably don't apply to you but there is something driving your behavior. Counseling is something I definitely would consider - sooner than later.
All the best for you!!!
Beau
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Thanks for the insight Beau;
Well, all I can think of is my mom and dads dicorce...I was 4. He wasin and out of my life.
THen he got remarried, moved 10 hours away and i never saw him until my late teens....he then walked me down the aisle at my wedding ( a regret now though).
Sasw my first 2 children be born, then he met someone on the net, and divorced my stepmom of 21 years and took off to Alaska to marry this other woman. I heard from him and ahd the not so nice task of explaining to my 2 young daughters why tehy would never see their grandpa again.
Do you think I seek male acceptance because of that? I mean, there was never any sexual abuse.
Thanks alot for your thoughts, Sally.
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Sally
I don't know if your parent’s divorce left you with a need to seek affection that you did not received from F growing up. Sometimes the divorce itself is so painful that kids have love and trust issues later in life. These are two good topics to think about and journal when ideas pop up and discuss with a shrink.
I know that I have love and trust issues that I have struggled to resolve throughout my life because my dad was a serial cheater. I used his behavior as a model for what NOT to do in life. However, I chose two women that could not meet my emotional needs and both marriages ended in divorces as a result. I know what to look for now and I pray that God will bring the right woman into my life. I miss having a woman to care for and love.
If I could “will” away your problems, I would have already done so. I know this is selfish on my part but a young mother with three kids and an H should have a happy life. You have worked hard and deserve some peace. I began tonight to earnestly pray to God to remove any desire in your heart to contact OM and to make your heart available to your H only.
I mean it when I say only the best for you!
Beau
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You are truly a kinda a wonderful man...thank you for the prayers, and the advice.
Sally.
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Sally, Sally, Sally. In all the messages of advice to you yesterday, EVERYONE advised you show that e-mail from the OM to your husband and at the least let your husband write or help you write a 'leave me alone; let's go on with our lives NO CONTACT letter'.
But instead you write him..."Honey, what is wrong in your life? what can I do to help?" yadda yadda yadda
In a post yesterday someone said his problems are probably that he is having a sexual affair with a nearby lady and worried about his wife finding out. It sounds like that could very well be what his problem is!
What you had with him was a one night stand and then many months of e-mailing. It was easy for him, just took a few minutes out of his day but for you it filled your heart with thoughts of romance and love all day long...what a sad pity.
I hope you do not raise your voice with those precious little girls today!
We all here wish you would share this 'burden' with your husband. I thought you were glad you told him? However you need to continue telling him what is going on.
And on that closing of that e-mail account. I don't believe you, dear. You just wanted us here to think you did. You didn't take any other advice from your friends here! Did you block his e-mail? How do you CLOSE an e-mail account, come on, did you really? SIncerely, JJ
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JJ:
Yes, I suppose I should have shown my hub OM's email and had him write a NC letter with me....but I didn't. I just closed the account.
And yes, silly question you asked about my account. Why would I even post anything at all here if I was lying? NO sense there?? I've told you all everythign, everythign I have done wrong, no justifications, just my true open hearted feelings. Frankly I am a little insulted by the insinuations.
I didn't come here to et called a liar or get chastised. Merely to get help. Is this what you would do to someone who is an addict? Berate them? If I am a hassle, or I don't belong here, thats fine...I will deal on my own.
BTW...if you ever need to close a yahoo mail account, you go to "Close my account" enter your password, re-enter it, then where its says "we are sorry to see you go", you push enter.
Thanks everyone,
Sally.
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JJ seems your reply to Sally was a little harsh. BS's and WS's alike struggle here. We have to struggle to get on the right path...sometimes we fall off a little and need our friends to help pick us back up again.
I remember struggling on the "in recovery" board in the first few months past dday. I think MB is one of the things that helped save my life and M. Only problem I had with MB is some people would get insulted if you didn't take there advise. When I was on the side of getting advise I would read and reread everything posted to me, then I would use the information to formulate a plan for me...that didn't mean that I followed all advise.
These days I am more on the side of giving advise and sometimes feel frustrated with people who don't appear to listen but I try not to judge. I remember only too well the feeling of being scared, hurt, confused, angry, hopeless, etc during the early days of recovery and how overwhelmed with advise I'd get. It takes awhile for some of it to sink in. I remember getting advise from JL and Pepper that would sting me to the core or infuriate me but in hindsight they were right...just took awhile for it to sink in.
If we're patient here we can do more good. I believe that both BS and WS are in some sort of fog or experiencing something like PTSD and when you are in that mode, you're not at your most reasonable.
Sally stay here we will hang in there with you. You might not always like what we have to say but we won't abandon you!
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