When my FWW was still in her A, I filed for a D and went for full custody of my kids. She was constantly wanting to bring them around the OM and spent very little time with them while her A was ongoing and for quite a bit of time after it was over. I felt that I was doing the right thing with the kids and do not regret trying for full custody.

My W and I are now in recovery and she has got some real issues with me about this. She resents me for trying to get full custody and she wants me to go to my lawyer and have papers drawn up saying that I will agree to joint custody if things don't work out between us. She said that it would really help her feel safe and would show her that I don't just want to have things "my way". I told her that I could not do that right now. I have told her over and over that although my biggest concern at the time I filed was her behavior and the fact that she was trying to put the kids into a harmful situation, I also don't know if equal custody is the best thing for them. I can see the importance of them being at one place most of the time for the stability it would provide as opposed to them going back and forth every couple of weeks or so.

She simply cannot see my point of view when it comes to this and thinks that I am just trying to keep the upper hand as far as custody goes so that I can get what I want if things don't work out for us. She also is having a problem with me not being sorry for doing what I did with the kids. I have to be honest with her and I am not sorry, I would do the same thing if she started acting that way again.

I don't have the answers as to what would be the best for the kids but I at least want to learn more about it before I sign some legal document. It could well be with a little more educating that I would agree that split custody would be the best thing for them, but I haven't researched it enough to feel good about making that decision right now. I thought I could ask her to help me research it together and that way maybe we can reach a decision that we can both be happy with. Does that sound like a good compromise at this point?

DO NOT sign anything until you get a chance to talk to Steve Harley. POJA must prevail and if there is an impasse then you need the impartial counsel of a person like Steve. If you and your FWW are willing to abide by Steve's decision then both of you can rest assured that NO ONE got the better of the other.

Hello Starman:

Let me see if I understand this correctly:
1)She continued to have a sexaul affair while you were married.
2)She continue to try to have the children connect with the cheating OM.
3)She spent very little time with the children when she was in the affair.
3)She put the children in harmful situations.
4)You clearly realize that joint custody of the children would be harmful for them.

After all this she says if things do not work out in recovery she wants you to draw up papers stating you accept joint custody? Are you out of your mind?
She has already set in motion plans for a breakup just in case. It sounds like you are being set up.
Why would she worry about getting joint custody unless she was doing something that would not allow to get it? If you sign these papers you are really saying in the future if she decides to screw around again on you and put your children in harmful situations; it will make no difference at all and she will automatically get joint custody. She has proven by her actions in the past that this is not best for your children. She is attempting to manipulate you and it really sounds like she has a hidden agenda. DO NOT SIGN PAPERS ALLOWING THIS! I think you are the one who may be falling into the fog my friend. I wish you luck.

she wants me to go to my lawyer and have papers drawn up saying that I will agree to joint custody if things don't work out between us.
Would that be a "pre-divorce agreement"? Similar to a pre-nuptial agreement? "just in case"?

I wouldn't do it.
It's only setting up for the divorce.
If it did come to a divorce and the circumstances are similar to previously, then you wouldn't want her to have custody (again).

[joking mode on]
I guess you could tell her you will sign one if she posts a $500,000 bond with an uncontestable agreement that it goes directly to you if things don't work out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
[joking mode off]

starman,
I agree w/ Chris, the bond sounds great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Seriously, W is not thinking of M only D and herself. Manipulation and compromise are arts. W is a master at manipulation and you must be a master at compromise. The mastery in compromise is expressing your view and persuading W of your true intention, ie. the welfare of the children. Tell her how you felt and why you filed for full custody. Encourage her to look at it as though you were the WS, showing all your attention to the OW and exposing them to a situation they could not understand. We're adults and we don't understand. I was fortunate to have a judge that believed the children needed an adjustment period of no less than 6 months. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> The D papers stated the OW could not have contact w/ children, both public and private. This was important in the fog lifting and our recovery. I was granted domiciliary joint custody. Enough to keep the kids w/ me and still allow H to be their father.

Do NOT SIGN such an agreement. Get legal advise and MC.

Good luck and God Speed

Starman:

2 separate issues: Reconciliation and the DV.

You are currently trying 2 reconcile, right? You put the DV on hold, right?

Leave it on hold, don't change a thing. Actions speak, words don't.

-2long

She resents me for trying to get full custody and she wants me to go to my lawyer and have papers drawn up saying that I will agree to joint custody if things don't work out between us. She said that it would really help her feel safe and would show her that I don't just want to have things "my way".

Listen to her as she voices her feelings and her concerns ....

and then DO what you know is prudent, and healthiest for your kids.

She is entitled to her feelings.

You are obligated to protect your kids.

FWW is just going to have to learn to deal with this uncertainty in her life, isn't she?

Cave into this unreasonable demand, and a landslide of problems will follow.

YOU 'da man!!!!

Pep

Would she be willing to sign a paper stating that if she had another EA or PA with the OM or any other person, you would get full custody?

I think you know the answer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Actions speak, words don't.

-2long

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

HAHAHAHAHA

Now you know the real reason why she wants to reconcile. I would recommend that you continue the divorce process to it's end. You can always get remarried if you see that she has truly changed.

Starman- I agree that since you are trying to reconcile the Dv stays on hold. No changes without POJA. Like TMCM said, if you can't agree together then bring Steve in to get his advice.

I wonder if she is trying to maybe deflect some of the hurt she feels from her actions onto you by asking for this? A thought.

BTW It is STTSI posting under my W's name since I am too lazy.

Thanks everybody. I also think that it would be a very bad idea to do anything legally at this point. Since my FWW has a history of bad behavior there is no way I am going to be willing to do anything like this ahead of time. She is asking too much IMO. Besides, if we are supposed to be trying to reconcile, why throw this into the mix? It doesn't add to the confidence aspect much.

I am definitely going to talk with SH about this one. Like I mentioned in my first post, I am willing to work with my W so we can educate ourselves better about this subject, but should we be planning for the worst while we are trying to work this out at the same time? It sure seems counterproductive.

I know that the thought of losing her children scared my W to death. I really think that fear is what is pushing her now. She feels like she is auditioning for her motherhood and it stresses her out. She's afraid that if she doesn't do things just the way I want her to that I will use everything against her to get the kids. When I put myself in her shoes I can see how she feels very vulnerable and powerless when it comes to this. I know that she has only herself to blame for being in this situation in the first place but I would never use it as leverage to get what I want. It has always and will always be about what is the best for the kids. Hopefully I will be able to show her that she has nothing to be afraid of and she will be willing to give me a chance to prove to her that I am not doing anything to try and hurt her or make her pay for what she did.

Starman if she brings the subject up again, consider conveying to her that while nothing would please you more than to do what she requests that it is still to early in the game to do it, but you are willing to consider following Steve Harley's advice on the subject.

Starman,

You said:

Hopefully I will be able to show her that she has nothing to be afraid of...

The only way you can do this is to sign the agreement. Then truly she will have nothing to be afraid of. That is wrong! Clearly, she should be afraid of the natural consequences of her actions.

I really liked Pepperband's very Schnarch-like comment: FWW is just going to have to learn to deal with this uncertainty in her life, isn't she?

Starman, you also said that you can understand why she feels "powerless" in this situation. From my POV (as an outsider) she clearly is in total control, ie. don't repeat her earlier behavior and she'll stay in the custody mix. It's clear to me that once I jump off a cliff I'm powerless to prevent my fatal collision with the ground. Hopefully, I'll figure out the limits of my power before I jump. Shouldn't be much pity for me during the fall.

Please don't be sucked into her fearfulness. She should be stressed about this, most people would. Relieving her stress won't help. Quite the contrary, she won't be very successful as a mother (or a spouse) if she can't do the right thing while confronting stress.

Jeffers

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by yosh:
<strong> Now you know the real reason why she wants to reconcile. I would recommend that you continue the divorce process to it's end. You can always get remarried if you see that she has truly changed. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gee whiz, Yosh, you only seem to know one song. Looking at all of your posts, your theme seems to be that everyone dealing with these problems needs to divorce and get on with their lives.

I'm sure there is a reason for your bilious perspective; what's going on? I don't know anything about your situation or history. How about telling us where you're coming from? Let us know something about you and the issues you yourself are dealing with. Maybe we can help.

I'm going to make an appt. with SH today. We are kind of stuck in a rut right now anyway and I definitely need to discuss this subject with him before I talk with my W about it anymore.

She's just beside herself that I am not willing to do this for her. She said that she has done everything I have asked of her up to this point (which she has)and now when she asks something of me I am unwilling to do it (which is true). So far I have avoided telling her that one of the reasons I won't do this is because I don't trust her enough to know that she won't do something like this again in the future. I know radical honesty is important, but how do you say this without LB?

I decided to call SH because I end up getting angry when I try to discuss custody with her and I am afraid I am going to say something that I shouldn't. I have good self-control for the most part but she is so self-centered when it comes to this that it ends up driving me crazy. She is so consumed by how SHE would feel if she didn't have custody of the kids that she can't rationally think about what would be best for THEM. I have realized that there is NOTHING that I could do or show her that would make her feel any differently. She tries to tell me that she's thinking of the kids but it is VERY obvious that it is mostly about her. I don't know how to deal with this, hopefully Steve can give me a clue.

starman:

Yes, definitely talk 2 SH.

"I really think that fear is what is pushing her now."

And I believe that you are doing everything you can, responsibily, 2 allay those fears. But, her desire that you change the custody clause in the DV papers is NOT going 2 do that, though it may feel like that for her for a while. She needs 2 be allowed 2 face the consequences of her past behaviors so that she can learn from the experiences she had and be a better wife and mother in the fu2re. You being as "safe" a H as you can, while letting her accept responsibility rather than dodge it, is the best medicine for her right now, though she can't see that.

"I know that she has only herself to blame for being in this situation in the first place but I would never use it as leverage to get what I want."

And we believe you, really! Now, it's going 2 take time for you W 2 learn 2 trust you, you 2 trust her, and your M 2 be restored. Custody if there's a DV is NOT the current issue.

"Hopefully I will be able to show her that she has nothing to be afraid of and she will be willing to give me a chance to prove to her that I am not doing anything to try and hurt her or make her pay for what she did."

I'm confident that, with SH's help, you will be able 2 do just that.

-ol' 2long

Dr Cu:

I 2 would love 2 hear yosh's story. But, like a similar poster from the recent past that I asked the same 2uestion of - tomaz, sometimes tommaz - I won't hold my breath. I've wondered, more than once, if tomaz became yosh.

yosh, this isn't meant 2 be insulting. I'm just curious.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Starman:

"She said that she has done everything I have asked of her up to this point (which she has)and now when she asks something of me I am unwilling to do it (which is true).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hold it right there. I can understand how she may feel that your divorce papers asking for full custody are her Sword of Damocles hanging over her head, but she's just going to have to accept this situation until she becomes proficient enough with MB principles embodied in The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage. such as the POJA and PORH. So far she is far from being proficient by the fact that she is engaging in the love buster called selfish demands which does not bode well for this attempt at marital recovery.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So far I have avoided telling her that one of the reasons I won't do this is because I don't trust her enough to know that she won't do something like this again in the future. I know radical honesty is important, but how do you say this without LB?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh but you ARE love busting her because you are engaging in the love buster called dishonesty. You must calmly, respectfully and quietly convey to her that you still are very much afraid to trust her because you and the kids have gone through so much pain in the past with her past assurances of breaking of her affair only to be disappointed time and again when she changed her mind and her pushing the issue only compounds your fears and doubts about this attempt at marital reconciliation. How she handles you honest words is her responsibility not yours.