I had posted this in the divorcing section but thought it may be more appropriate here.

I have tried Plan A for almost 2 months. She has sworn it's over with OM (who is an out of state co-worker). They have previously met on several business trips. I have asked her to just let me know when and if you will be working with him but she has yet to do this. OM came to our town 3 weeks ago, they worked together and later that day I went to the hotel he was staying at. I knew she was also there but she told me she was at another hotel while talking to me on her phone and I then found her inside the lobby. No excuse from her except she did not think I would have understood they were just working together and wanted to protect me. She has been with this guy ~9 months. I threatened to tell the OMW but I never did. She is scared of filing since she knows I will then tell.

We have not made love in 5 weeks, I am getting no affection, attention, etc. Previous to D-Day, we had a pretty good fall, 9th anniversary came, went to Vegas, etc.

I have hired a PI for this evening as she/he are at another meeting out of state. This will solidify for good what I already know...but I have been having a very hard time emotionally detaching from her and our relationship. Most recently (last 10 days) she has been more warm, we have booked another trip together, spent Turkey day together, etc. But no real physical contact or intimacy.

She also met a single man 6 months ago (out of state) who she has maintained contact with and I heard from a friend she was going to try and hookup with him this coming weekend while she is in NYC. I confronted her last Saturday with regards to this single man and she said she has been trying to hook-up her friend with him and she would no longer speak with him. She has hidden her cell calls from me and has yet to demonstrate honesty to me to build trust.

Any words of wisdom? My love bank is pretty much empty. What to do? I think I already know, met with my lawyer on Monday. Oh, happy holidays.....

Nature,
Sorry you've joined our not so exclusive club. Men with cheating wives.

What proof do you have that there has been an A. EA? or PA? Sounds like maybe both.

Anyway....the first thing you need to do is tell the OM's W. You will probably find out pretty quickly whether it really is over between them. Regardless this woman deserves to know and to then make her own choices.

Are you trying to meet her EN's? Even if she refuses to meet yours you need to try and meet hers if you want any hope of saving the M. Do know which EN's he is meeting for her?

Try to relax. Easier said than done I know but exercise yourself until you drop and/or take meds to calm you down. Are you able to get your work done? Try to focus. You don't want to lose job or income because of all the stress/ anxiety.

I'll look for your other thread over at Dv/Dving.

There are alot of people here who have experienced what you're going thru. Eventhough you may feel like it you are not alone.

cwmac

Na2re:

2 months isn't a long time, really. But it depends on the individual whether it's "enough" or not.

From what you've written, both about you and what you say about your W, I don't think you're ready 2 quit now. For perspective, my W had a 12-yr A with an out of state coworker. They didn't see each other but once or 2wice a year, but they emailed a lot. That's how I found out almost 2 years ago.

I was in plan A for over a year and a half. I did it that way because 1) it 2k me a LONG time NOT 2 suck at it, and 2) because my W never left me 2 live with Rat Meat. I learned little about what they said 2 each other after I found their emails, because my W opened a new account that I couldn't access. RM was a consultant for her. She wasn't willing 2 quit her job or go NC on RM, so I had 2 decide whether I could hang on. We have a lot of other complications in our lives, primarily a house fire 2 years ago that we're fighting our insurance company over, but those aren't the main reasons for my staying in plan A so long - those are due primarily 2 number 2, above. In the end, she quit the job he was consulting for (which would have been a wise move regardless of the A - it was a bad environment) and she's making a major effort 2 recommit 2 our M. So much so that I can trust her even though we don't have a NC agreement yet.

This is not the "conventional" MB way of doing things. It takes longer, and it takes some intestinal forti2de. I had 2 look long and hard at our 27-yr M and decide, for myself, if it was worth fighting like this for it, or simply make a final ultimatum and risk driving her away. And in the end, I didn't have 2 make the ultimatum or go 2 plan B, because she came 2 her own realizations of what she really wanted and what she needed 2 do 2 keep our M.

I guess what I'm saying is that you've got 2 do a similar inward look for yourself. Never mind what your W may or may not be doing. Ask yourself "Self? Do I love my W enough 2 give her the time 2 show me she's interested in saving our M?" If the answer is truly no, then your next move will be simple (though not easy). But if it's "yes" or even "maybe" or "I don't know", then try 2 be patient some more. Keep learning all you can about affairs and how 2 survive them, and learn as much as you can about becoming an emotionally healthy individual capable of having a rewarding, intimate relationship with your W or being alone without being lonely. If your love bank is truly nearing empty, you should probably consider plan B, but it doesn't sound like it really is. When I tried plan B over a year ago, after 7 months of my mediocre plan A, I realized that my love for my W hadn't dwindled a smidgen, because I missed her so much it hurt - more than I think it would have if I had been prepared.

Your W can do a lot 2 help you see her sincere desire 2 repair your M, but I doubt that right now she can see how 2 do this. Her career is more important 2 her right now than her M, so she's got her priorities mixed up. Maybe she always will, but maybe she won't. The simplest, but most difficult thing for her 2 do would be 2 quit her job and promise never 2 see or speak with the OM for the rest of her life, but she can't get there yet.

What do you know about this single OM? Is it possible that it is an innocent attempt 2 hook him up with her friend? In any case, considering the sitch you and she are in, she should refrain from these kinds of games until you're in much better shape. But if you're just guessing, don't. Give her the benefit of the doubt. It's hard, but if she's sneaking around there's nothing you can do about it but worry, and so showing her a little trust might give her the impetus 2 try a little harder (by showing her trust, I don't mean 2rn a blind eye, I WOULD tell her your concerns, and how it hurts you. Ask her 2 help you with your concerns).

If hiring the PI 2 tail her only solidifies what you already know, why do it? It's a waste of money if that's the case, and it only makes you look paranoid when you show up in lobbies 2 catch them, or whatever.

TELL THE OMW!! The purpose of this is 2 punc2re their balloons. Destroy the excitement of sneaking around by making their secret public knowledge (2 you, the OMW, and coworkers, that is, not the world necessarily). She'll be angry, but she'll be angry because her secret world isn't secret anymore - which it never had any right 2 be in the first place.

I hope you 2 can get counseling. I have no idea whether you can save this or not. It's entirely up 2 you and her, and she can't think clearly or positively about your M right now. You have 2 be the reasonable one here. It will be hard, but when you're done with the process, you'll be amazed at the man you've become.

best,
-2long

Good Grief:

Why in the world have you not told the OM's wife.
All you are doing is enabling the affair to continue without consequences for either one of them. It just does not make sense what you are doing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"She has hidden her cell calls from me and has yet to demonstrate honesty to me to build trust."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THIS among all other signs should tell you that she does not want to be an open book to you. Convey to her that if there isn't anything for you to worry about, then she shoudln't be so worried if she would let you read what her innocent expressions to this man are all about, right?

I have tried to be patient with this....and meet her needs wherever I can...I brought home the questionnaires and she hardly read them. She told me it was like I was pushing them on her. All the while I was catching her lying to me which just upset me even more. She never showed alot of remorse through this...she cried a little, apologized some..but it was mostly me talking, trying to explain to her that I would like us both to build an "affair proof" marriage. She does not believe in counseling...we actually got in front of a counselor about 4 weeks ago; we were trying to use our health insurance which is tied to her name..the counselor's paperwork indicated he may need to divulge meeting notes, diagnosis, etc. to the insurance company for billing....my wife would not agree to sign this because she felt it may cost her job if her company found out...we discussed paying out of pocket but she has not moved from there, does not believe in counseling, etc.

The issues between us began a few years ago where she says I cut her off by not continuing to listen to her regarding a very sensitive subject which I will not go through here. On top of that (she is turning 36 next month but looks 5-10 years younger) she does not want to raise a family...and she knows that I want to....I have tried to let her know the most important thing is us...not raising kids. We have had SF issues but never really got into all the details with her.

Unfortunately the PI could not track her down last nite...she returns this evening and leaves for a "girls weekend" to NYC tomorrow (she won a shopping trip through work). The OM and his W are also going to this trip. I can only imagine how upset she would be if I let the cat out of the bag today or tomorrow.

We are due to go to see her family for Xmas out of state. And are planning a one nite stay for just us. So, there seems to be some signs she may be coming out of the fog...but she has not said anything like "I want to commit to this/you/our M" or anything like that.

Any thoughts? I feel like I cannot go on like this much longer. Obviously she is still hiding from me which leads me to believe she is still with the OM on these business trips....and she is probably talking to this single guy and may indeed see him this weekend. Should I contact the single guy?

Nature

Tell the OMW, she needs to know what is going on. Why tolerate any contact? And, if you think A's are still going on it might be time to expose it to everyone.

I don't see how any fog can lift as long as she is seeing the OM, or OMem in her case. Sounds more like a cake eater.

FYI -- there are privacy laws (called HIPAA) that prevents the release of any health information to her employer.

It has to be released to the insurance company obviously so that they can pay the bills and determine if it is a covered "event".

But in no way can the insurance company divulge personal health information to her employer.

Get back to counseling!

And YES expose this affair! For sure let OMW know immediately -- before this trip! And Single guy should be informed she is a married woman!

Follow the plan Nature!

<small>[ December 04, 2003, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Lexxxy ]</small>

Harley used to say don't tell the OP's spouse until Plan B. He has changed his approach to this, but it is not reflected in much of his written material, which was written earlier. Please read the following links. They are not written by Harley, but do reflect his current thinking, based on what he has said in seminars and on his radio show. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have some links in my signature line about counseling that you should read, too. Click below.

One more thing. DEFINITELY tell the OM's wife today. Don't be so concerned about not making her angry (your wife, that is) that you don't fight for your marriage. Plan A is a strategy to separate the WS from the OP. Since the WS is addicted to the OP, ANYTHING you do in Plan A can make the WS angry. Even just meeting the WS's emotional needs can make them angry, because it can destroy their internal rationalizations about why their affair is justified. For some WS's, how angry they get can be good indication of how good Plan A is working.