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Joined: Sep 2002
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I know I said I would not come back here because of all of the controversy and ugliness surrounding my past threads but I am desperate this time. My H just found out about my recent PA and it is killing him. I never ever meant to hurt him like this, I went into the affiar dealing with my own pain and grief of what had become of our M, thinking it was completely over. He had moved out twice and said he was moving on, he didn't even miss me, etc. I had no idea he would ever want to get back together or that he would even be hurt by me being with someone else (he even said "if you're going to have sex, be sure to use protection"...) I thought it was over and I was incredibly hurt and angry with how everything had ended. The A was of course a bad decision on my part since we were still legally married, I know this. But our M was so far from being even just good, we weren't even surviving in it, it was killing us both. I felt like I had died a long time ago and was exisiting as a zombie or something.

Well when I was visiting family over Thanksgiving, he decided to move back in. He went through my journal and saw something I had written about this other guy. This was 3 days ago. The first couple of days (after initially finding out) he was actually OK. I was surprised with how well he was dealing with it. Then yesterday, he just fell apart. He cried and yelled and said he was going to leave all day long. Then he decided he couldn't leave. I feel so helpless, I don't know what to do. He said he realizes that the decision to have my A was greatly influenced by him and his behavior for the past 2 years and that he hates himself more than he hates me. I think all of this can potentially be good since I believe it has really opened our eyes to how bad our situation was. He had no idea and was SHOCKED to find out I had an A, which actually shocked me. I guess he was deeper in denial than I thought.

It just kills me to know that I am the cause of someone being in so much pain. I want to help him however I can, but honestly I am still really struggling with getting over the OM and whoever else I would have been involved with...the whole "dating" scene was looking more and more appealing to me since I was married so young and never really got to experience that. But now, I can't even think about that. Once again, he has decided to come back and I am forced to work on my M again which just 5 days ago, we didn't even think it was worth saving.

My question is, how do I get past my grief of letting all of this go and be there for my H? If we're going to do this, I need his support as well and I'm not sure if I even have the right to ask anything of him. What can I do to help him?

Joined: Feb 2002
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mg:

um... ...welcome 2 Marriage Builders.

You know the drill. Hunker down and get 2 work.

-2long

Joined: Sep 2001
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Married girl

I think you should stay seperated and perhaps even continue a legal path that protects both you, him, and your daughter.....

I think both you and him need someone else to set up visitation schedules that are clear, concise and fair...and then YOU do everything in your power to adhere to them...
I think anything else and both of you will begin to use your daughter as a pawn...

this is not a slam persay against you or him..it is a route that can offer protection even as you and he seek reconcilliation...

I don't think you nor he have the communication or emotional tools to even begin to fix things without serious counselling...

I think that playing around with false recovery will just muddy the already brown waters even more and will lead to more

more non productive miscommunication
more powerstruggling
more one upping eachothers pain
more chaos for each of you not to mention your daughter's world...

there is a point where we can become adjusted or even addicted to drama and chaos ...and will create it out of nothing..
it is in my opinion a destructive route
I am concerned that both you and your husband are thriving on the emotional drama's...

this is only as difficult as you make it...
cheating on your husband makes it more difficult..
your own action
his inability to confront his issues with porn only makes things more difficult...
his actions, his choice...

Someone...in this situation has to say enough is enough...and go back to the basics and values...
and give a dam enough about the child in this situation to just stop the chaos...

Your husband wants porn according to you..
you want to date...

who is for the child??

stop the chaos...
get a mediator and find a way to set boundaries that offer safety and refuge to all three of you...
put your daughters needs above your need to date and all the other drama...

dont' even consider reconcilliation till you and he both even understand what a healthy marriage is...
do the work to get what it is you desire...and the payoff will be worth it..
jump back into the drama dance you both keep doing over and over again...
and you will still be in the exact same spot emotionally you find yourself today.

ARK

Joined: Sep 2002
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Um, ok thanks. I'm just trying to be there for him the best I know how, considering the circumstances, and I think he's doing the same. I don't see the point of kicking him out again so we can get back together...I think we may have made a turning point through all of this and will lose it all if we seperate again. And I truly don't think we crave or thrive on drama, not at all. We were both the most miserable when there was so much drama and chaos. I rode the wave of my emotions for way too long in reaction to his "problem" and made my own choices out of pain and despair, which led to more pain. I think we're just 2 broken people making a lot of mistakes but trying to be there for eachother in the best way we know how. I'm just hoping things start getting better and we find the strength to do what we need to do.

Joined: May 2002
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As 2long said, you know the drill. Here is a condensed version. Have him read it, too. It is really written for the BS. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. Do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Joined: Oct 2000
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Originally posted by marriedgirl:
And I truly don't think we crave or thrive on drama, not at all.

Well, you've certainly had me fooled! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Therapy. Big time. You both are not especially mature when it comes to showing support or understanding for each other.

Get REAL help .... not just MB help .... real live therapy.

Good luck.

Pep

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but honestly I am still really struggling with getting over the OM and whoever else I would have been involved with...the whole "dating" scene was looking more and more appealing to me since I was married so young and never really got to experience that.

real therapy
real counselling
or repeat the same patterns over and over and over..

I'm just hoping things start getting better and we find the strength to do what we need to do.

you don't have the tools...so evident from your posts marriedgirl...and that's not an attack...but it is definitely my opinion...

but just the fact that you have been here as long as you have...and at after reading of peoples pain in affairs...you go out and do that to yourself...to your husband...to the OP...and to your daughter...

your actions identify volumes of what you don't get..
regardless of what your husband does or doesn't do..

you two are floundering in that home...
and until you really get it..nothing will change..
what is to fear in seperating if both are committed to working on things...

old patterns and our own particiation and creation of them are hard to break...and I fear that you don't know how to change them..
I fear you both will easily fall back into the same unless you find someone to teach you differently...
AND you are willing to learn...

and affair this late into hanging out here...
posting as much as you have...
speaks of a lot of talking on your part...
but I'm not sure you've done much listening...
and I say that based on your recent actions..not on some ridiculous personal attack...

ark

Joined: Apr 2001
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MG, Did you check out the link on Kasey's thread?

Try this one if you didn't.

Are you a Sex and Love Addict?

I think you are addicted to the drama. But even if I didn't, what matters most is where you are in your thinking and feelings.

You can't save him from the pain of your choices, anymore than he can save you from the pain of his choices.

Focus on doing the most healthy thing for the child - don't go into a relationship with your husband based on pity. That will be the final death knell for it.

The best thing you can do for your husband right now is to get into recovery for yourself. 12 steps work really well, because fundamentally, it all boils down to how powerless we are and how unmanageable our lives have become.

Joined: Mar 2002
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mg,

I think that you still have to answer one question or you can really go no farther with the marriage builders stuff.

Do you want to be married to your husband?

If you can't say yes to that....the rest is really moot.

If you need a friend....and help turning your life around.... starfish4729@hotmail.com


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