You know the way I see it we can always just go get some "pizzas" LOL - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WMWB, hey brother, I hear you and understand.

Same stuff with me though my WW is still at home. But, I have this odd feeling that after the holidays, the other shoe will drop and she will leave. She will not talk about any future events past 1/1/04. How significant is that?

I know what you mean about the thoughts haunting you every waking hour. Same with me. Not an hour goes by without feeling the pain.

Hang in there, Work on yourself and pray. I know it's not easy to do as I struggle with my own advice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm trying to hang in there. I am so wishy washy these days. Some days, I am just like you are now, I can care less what she does. I would be happy, cheerful, thankful for the things I do have and at peace. Then, other days, I am a freak. I am enraged, hurt, not accepting that all this has happened and is happening. I think that is how I am today. It is truly amazing how she is acting right now. Amazing!

I love my wife. I love what she is to our little family. I love that we are a family (even though she is not there) and I know that without her it will never, NEVER be the same. I could find some woman who would be wonderful with the kids, love me and do whatever else. But she will not the their mother and that will always be second best to what could have been. I know second marriages work and all that. But with me and my wife loving each other and working together in raising our children...nothing could top that. And I am person who finds it HARD to settle for less. But, it's not up to me. It will take me and my wife to make this marriage work and right now, she would rather...yeah, that's the other thing that is bugging me something terrible! Together we could buy a really nice house for ourselves and the children. Now, they are living between 2 apartments and are not doing as well as they should be doing...because she feels the need to pay for an apartment by herself. How crazy and selfish is that!?!?! I am really surprised she made it this far financially. She's crazy. I'm sorry to say it, but she has lost her mind.

I needed to get that out

I hear you 100%. I feel EXACTLY the same way. Most days, I'm like you described... unaccepting and enraged. Today was an exception until she called and wanted to set a time to come over and get some of her stuff. I hung up on her, now I'm just p*ssed.

Also, i feel exactly like you in the terms of second marriages and raising the kids. It will NEVER be as good as having their REAL mom in the family, helping me raise them. I just don't understand all of this... doesn't commitment mean anything to them???? Appearantly "til death do us part" only means three or so years to my wife. I just don't get it.

And nevermind the pizza comment by that "other guy"... he is only trying to cause trouble... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hey there,

Sorry I haven't been following for long. How firm are you about Plan B? How much contact do you have with each other? Did you send the Plan B letter? And would you consider an intermediary to act between you both (so you didn't get anymore calls out of the blue). Even short all-business calls like the one she made is enough to keep her BH fix going. She has taken you for granted and thinks you will ALWAYS be there.

I admire you for working SO hard for your M. And her craziness is making you crazy. How can you remove yourself more from the situation so you don't get caught into her drama and craziness?

Hey SHMI, nice to hear from you. I don't know all that much about your stry either, but I've read some of you rposts and have liked what I've heard.

Yeah, I've sent her a plan B letter. We have nearly no contact. I don't talk to her when she calls, I don't see her when I drop off the kids, I hang up on her when she ambushes me on the phone. I am firm and militant about this these days. I wish i would have just asked her when she called: "Is this immeadiatly pertaining to the children?" When she said no, I should have hung up the phone. I find myself being very cold and stern with her, I'm sure she inturprets this as me being rude, but i don't know how else to do it with out inviting a conversation.

I have set up an intermediary, but WW won't participate. She says it is none of anybody elses business. What i should have done is told her (when she called) that if it wasn't immeadiatly pertaining to the kids, to call Nancy (the 3rd party). I guess I'm more mad at myself than her for the phone call and my response. I was on the phone with her for about 2 inutes 30 seconds... which was about 2 minutes too long!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I am SO angry right now. I just picked up my son from school (we are going to a Wiz game tonight). He has 2 refocus notes (which means he was acting up in class) and a bus referral. I was enraged. He was supposed to be on TV restriction, shoot, I don't allow him to watch TV during the week anyway, but I specifically told his mother on Sunday not to allow him to watch any TV. He tells me today that he watched TV the past two nights while over there.

This is just crazy. She is not only hurting me, but she is hurting them. Her behavior is detrimental to her own children. Her madness is making the act out and misbehave. Who is she good for? She has turned her back on her husband. She has turned her back on her children! She has turned her back on her God. What good is she? What use is there for her? Not only is she NOT doing anyone any good (not even herself) but she is doing them HARM! My goodness!

I feel like calling her right now and telling her to just get away.

Ok, i understand the frusteration... believe me I do. My WW pulled our son out of pre school because she didn't feel like driving him up here while she was living with her folks (about 55 miles away). I couldn't believe it... how selfish!!!

I know where you are coming from. Seriously, consider getting yourself a heavy bag (punching bag) to work out with. I bought one the same week my WW moved out and it really helps get rid of anger and stress.

Of course, come here to vent and rage... but don't call her. Don't let her know you care, don't give her the satisfaction of seeing you upset. What good would come of it? You would only get into a fight with her and give her all the justification she is looking for as to why you are not for her and why what she is doing is ok. Trust me on this... I've been there.

<small>[ December 10, 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back??? ]</small>

uhh NO WMWB it was 2 minutes 30 seconds to long .. send it to voice mail remember.

I am hurt by the the way ..

the " that other guy " and me trying to cause problems .. never. I was meerly commenting on the fact that when you come up here we could order a pizza. I don't have to work friday so I thought about poker night ..and inviting a few friends over .. what do ya think?

Thanks Want.

I am just so...and she doesn't even bother to call to talk about his problems in school. She is probably calling Randy right now and talking to him on her way home from work. I am just so fed up. I felt like this since freaking February!

But you're right, you are dead on with everything you said. Me calling her and going off on her, she won't see it no other way than me being pig headed and mean. I just have to leave well enough alone. I'm just tired...

Yeah, I agree with the other guy, don't even answer the phone. When I give my wife the Plan B letter, that is it. I really think I will never talk to her again...ever. I don't she is coming back so the Plan B letter will just make it an easy transition for her.

Solon - WMWB is right .. No action is better then reaction .. trust both of us on this .. you will make more of a statement to her this way then anything you can possibly say to her.

and don't even say a word WMWB... I will take my own advice.... maybe .. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Seriously though .. keep your emotions in check as much as possible.. My WW wants me to give a plan B so she doesn't have to "deal" with me any more she says. (yes she knows about Plan B).. hang in there .. you can get my email from WMWB if you would like ..

<small>[ December 10, 2003, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Lost&Confussed ]</small>

Thanks Guys, I really appreciate the level headedness. I sure need it. But I am SO tempted to call the other guy and tell him how I feel, how he has destroyed a family, two little children, how I want to kill him.

I'm sick right now.

That feeling is honestly nothing that WMWB and myself haven't felt or are not feeling .. but it will do no good other then put you in jail.

A person I consider a good friend told me this same thing.. and he reminds me of it every once and a while when I go off the deep end.

Remember why your here .. why your trying to save things.. your children need you. Every time you get that feeling look at your children .. carry a picture with you of them anytime you get that feeling look at it.. that is the only thing that has kept me from doing what I really want to the guy .. same as WMWB.

Stay cool solon, come here and vent.

WMWB, Plan B is about preserving the love you have for her, but how do you stand firm without LBing?
Set up your rules, your boundaries, to protect that love. If talking with her or seeing her is a trigger, then prevent that from happening. If your WW doesn't want a third party to know your business, then she shouldn't be including a 3rd party in your M (sorry for the sarcasm). She is just ashamed of her behavior and can't have another person know how foolish she is becoming. But this is not her choice. If you want and need a third person to preserve your love...then that is how it shall be. You set the rules, then lovingly enforce them. If she breaches the boundary you can remind her by saying "I love you and want to hold onto that, therefore I can't talk to you while you are still having an A." Heck, you can begin every conversation with that statement. Or better yet, a simple, "are you continuing the A? Then speak with Nancy."

They are addicts, they are addicted to the romance, excitement, and most especially the fantasy...it's like a living romance novel...yuk.
Just looking out for their own selfish interests. And like an addict, you have to protect yourself from them until they decide to get straight.

You know WMWB - "pizza" and that "fire place" sound better everyday .. I'm sure when you read this you will understand what I mean. Remember what I said about Sunday .. well as far as I'm concerned Tonight (or today I quess) is even a better start. With or without the damn letter.
Actually as far as I'm concerned forever works ... I'll email you tomorrow

L&C-

Dude, don't you ever sleep? Don't go off half cocked, let calmer heads prevail. write the letter, have it critiqued, check it for spelling and grammer, make it serious and firm... but loving. Get the last of the stuff you need from the house and give her the letter. Then stand by it. Call me whenever you feel like calling her. Remember what I've told you... at times I'd much rather have her screaming at me and telling me how rotten I am rather than not be talking to her at all. The withdrawal sucks, it REALLY sucks, but you have to give it at least two weeks. I always broke contact after about a week, puts me right back to square one. Right now I'm at about two weeks and it is going well. Everyday I feel stronger and more detimined not to give in. You can do it, but do it right. I'll have to talk to you about Friday and poker... I might not be able to make it up.


Solon-

Same advice, not that I'm anyone to be giving advice... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I understand your feelings, you have no idea how much I do. Both L&C and I have the OM living next door to us. It is really tough to know that your W is over there with him (doing God knows what) rather than be home working on the M. Believe me, I have played out SOOO many scenarios where the OM is on the receiving end of some serious bodily harm... but if yo act on it, guess who will be raising your kids while you are in prison... yeah, her and the OM. Not exactly what you want I assume. That thought is about all that keeps me from marching up the guys driveway like Ray Liotta in Goodfellas and pistol whipping the sh*t out of him. But you know what, they aren't worth it. These OM are the scum of the earth, they go and steal the wives and mothers of other families for their own selfish reasons. Why take yourself out of the picture by getting yourself thrown in prison? That won't get your W back.

Where do you live? (if you don't mind me asking) For what it is worth, i think you need to go to plan B also. After Christmas, go completely dark. Just disappear, take care of your kids as though she didn't even exist. I'm sure that my kids have had days where they have had two baths, or the same thing for lunch and supper... stuff like that, because I don't even try to coordinate parenting with her. I only know when the last time I gave them a bath, or the last time I made spaghetti-o's. My kids are getting pretty good at telling me if I'm being redundant, they are 4 and 2-1/2 so i still take everything with a grain of salt. It is tough, but it is a peaceful relief being removed from the insanity of the A and trying to make sense of an insane situation. Seriously, email if yo uwant to talk or get together or something. It may help take your mind off things for a minute or two.


SHMI-

Hi, I reinstated my 3rd party intermediary last night. My WW left a list of stuff she wants from the house in my son's backpack yesterday. I had my intermediary call and leave a message with the wife saying that when i get my camera (roughly a $400 cannon with 2 lenses) and the kids snow boots back, we could discuss the list. I haven't heard anything from the W about this yet. She called to talk to the kids and i hung up when the last kids was done talking. She called back and left a message saying how rude it was for me to hang up on her and then not answer the phone when she called back. I dropped the kids off this morning at 6:15 a.m., which is about 2 hours earlier than normal, I had to get to work early but never mentioned it to her... oops <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

She did say on her message that she had a meeting this morning at 9:00 am, i wonder what that is about... she didn't say. I am kind of wondering if she is going to file for D...???

Thanks again guys. I am glad I did not tell her about herself yesterday. I met with my son's teacher and bus driver and all is well now (she didn't even call to see how that went). But I am calm now and glad I did not say what I wanted to say to her.

I am seriously thinking about sending that Plan B letter to her after Christmas, but a couple of things I want to throw out there 1) I really will like to email it. Hand delivering is too difficult. 2) I am thinking about asking her to sleep with her one last time when she spends the night Xmas eve. I am pretty sure I can talk her into it. But, if I do, she will feel very low once I send the Plan B letter. Or, if I don't she will think that is WHY I gave her the Plan B letter. It is a huge risk in making that move. If she says no, wow, I will be hurt. I guess I better not, huh? But I really think I can talk her into it. Shoot, so many before me have been able to.

I live in Maryland, by the way, I Want. Didn't you say you live in...North Dakota or something like that?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Solon:

"a couple of things I want to throw out there 1) I really will like to email it. Hand delivering is too difficult."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The problem with e-mailing the Plan B letter is that it will most likely get deleted. A handwritten letter is most likely to be kept to be read over and over again. Have you thought about using UPS to deliver the letter?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"2) I am thinking about asking her to sleep with her one last time when she spends the night Xmas eve. I am pretty sure I can talk her into it. But, if I do, she will feel very low once I send the Plan B letter. Or, if I don't she will think that is WHY I gave her the Plan B letter. It is a huge risk in making that move. If she says no, wow, I will be hurt. I guess I better not, huh? But I really think I can talk her into it. Shoot, so many before me have been able to."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes it is very risky because you may send her the wrong message that you only want her for sex. She is a woman and the vast majority of women don't have sex with a man unless they have strong feelings of love for him and that does not seem to be the case with your WW at this moment, does it? It would be better to appeal to her emotional side by creating a happy christmas so when she leaves you the last thoughts of you will be happy ones. That is the goal of Plan A before Plan B, to leave the WS with a happy memory of the BS so that when the affair ends, she will be more susceptible to want to come back to you and be willing to rebuild the marriage.

North Dakota...???? That flat waste land??? Hell no, i live in Minnesota... eastern Minnesota.

In my opinion... DO NOT ask or even try to sleep with her (I assume you are refering to sex and not just in the same bed sleeping...???) There are a couple of reasons... mostly because nothing good can come of it... NOTHING!!! First off, step back for a second and take an objective look at how desperate that makes you sound. Second, if she says no you will feel rejected... again, and giving her the plb letter will look vindictive. If she says yes, her heart won't be in it (which won't make it satisfying for either of you) and you will make her feel like a complete whore when yo give her the letter. Also, that is not the way for YOU to enter plan B... trust me, the withdrawal you will feel is overwhelming... the memory of sleeping with your wife WILL make this about 100 times worse for you... I promise you that.

Plan B is about you... not her. (trust me, I get this beat into my head about 1000 times a week... and I still have a hard time figuring it out sometimes) You need to distance yourself, emotionally detatch, insulate yourself from her and her A. If you engage in relations with her then go right into plan b... you will be destined to fail. She knows she has you over a barrel... or else why would you still be here trying??? This will only make you look needy and clingy and NOT what she needs right now. Personally i think having her spend the night at all is a BAD idea... but just my opinion.

You're right, Too Much, the vast majority of women DON'T have sex unless there is strong feelings, but uh...my wife is in the minority. I KNOW she did not have strong feelings for any of those guys she slept with. They told her how good she looked, made her laugh, and BANG, that's all it took. She is very simple and naive like that.

But you're right, I Want, either way won't be good in the long run, but if I did...wew!

Anyway, I guess I can mail her the letter. It should take a day or two to get to her. But I think it will be just as easy for her to throw it away or not even read it as it would be for her to erase it.

Minnesota. Their Bball team is coming to town Friday night. They're going to run all over us.