I don't know. Anything from "I hate you" to "I love you"... and everything in between. I honestly don't think I could stand to even look at her right now.

It's the ole roller coaster, WMWB. Your on a low right now where you just don't seem like you can stand it anymore, and I can't blame you, that sight would have driven me off the deep end. You are amazing. But I still feel that your wife loves you, she is just seriously confused right now.

I had a conversation with my wife today. It started off by us yelling at each other, she saying that she just does not love me (oh, that hurts to hear that) and she wants me to move on. She tried to say once again that there was no more Randy. I told her that I see his truck parked in her parking lot over night (I lied) and she said that it doesn't mean they are having sex. We went on and on and she started crying profusely. She told me "I know you don't believe me, but I am not having sex with anyone right now". She sounded convincing, but knowing my wife like I do, they may not be have intercourse...or better yet, there may not be any penetration, but other things are being done.

I apologized to her and told her that I hate to see her cry. I told her it is my fault, I love her and I will step back and give her all the time she needs. Before that, I was just so fed up, like WMWB is now, and I asked her "why don't you just divorce me?" I kept pushing it, but she never said she would do that. I told her I cannot live like this and she said that I should give her time that she "may" come back home, but by me arguing with her it was not the way she would come back home. Hearing her cry just made me melt. As much as I say I hate her and as angry I am by the thought of some other guy putting his...ugh! I still melt when she cries. It is amazing.

I know how you feel WMWB, you want to just throw it all behind you and leave her alone. And the truth of the matter is, one day you might have to make that decision. The hurtful truth of all of this is OUR WIVES MAY CHOOSE TO NEVER COME BACK. As painful as that is, that is the truth. And what's worse, we don't know how they will choose. We can wait for 2, 5, 10, 20 years, having our lives go by, alone, and our wives NEVER come back. At some point, we will have to make the decision to stop waiting and move on. I think about this constantly. I go through it in my mind. How long will I wait? In waiting, will I EVER be me again without her? You see, if she never comes back will you EVER be whole again? Oh, I know you will be healed (somewhat) the pain will lessen, but before the decision is made to move on, will you have to feel whole? And if so, then you may NEVER move on. Our wives left us for another man, our families are broken, how CAN we feel whole after that without our wives back? We cannot. We have to accept that.

I don't know, but I am one step closer to throwing in the towel. I don't want to grow old waiting. And, hey, if I move on and she decides to come back and I am dating someone...what happens? What happens? I may be just talking gibberish right now because I am hurt and angry, but this is how I feel.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lost&Confussed:
OK didn't that feel like the first week we were here. ... LOL</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">it's 2x4 time ... i added my last post because a lot of the things i read in this thread sound like it IS still your first week here.

tell us some of things you're learning about yourselves through this. tell us how you've learned to meet your spouse's needs and eliminate love busters while they're living away from you (if you're still in plan A) or how you've taught yourself to enforce your boundaries (regardless of plan A or B).

or better still, how can you guys teach each other to do these things better?

(a quick note about eliminating love busters ... stop referring to your wives as 'WW' and such. it's a disrespectful judgment. these women, despite disrespecting you and your marriage, are still your spouses -- treat them accordingly at all times. for more on this, look up some threads by the member named cerri ... she's an awesome coach who could provide all of you with much better advice than i can. she's mostly over at the 'just found out' board.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whipit I went and read your story or some of it .. are things still working out for you ?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes. yes they are, indeed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm glad if they are .. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thanks. we've worked -- and continue to work -- very hard. it wasn't always that way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with alot of what you said and we have tried alot of those things</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and so what are you doing now? have you given up after a few days/weeks or are you still working at them with the same effort? if not, then why not? if so, how are they helping? what could or should you change?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> .. we are just venting mostly ... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and there is nothing wrong with that. but what are you doing when you're not venting? how are you working at your plans, A or B (whichever you happen to be in)? is there any place you can improve? if so, in what ways are you doing that?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> all of us Love our wives and hope they come back</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and that's good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.. but it is getting to the point of .. no return for a couple of us ..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">why is it getting to that point and how much is your responsibility? what change could you make today that might have an influence on this?

while i understand that no one is perfect and that you cannot change your wife's behavior without her participation, can you look back on this and say to yourself that you've done everything in your power to save your marriage? if you say yes, my first question is 'everything?' because no matter what you're going to carry this experience with you forever.

if your marriage survives, then you're going to have to become the husband your wife needs you to be. if your marriage doesn't survive, you're going to have to be the husband someone else needs you to be. the mb principles are universal.

one of the things i did, and i'm not sure i mentioned it my journal, is that i stepped back from thinking that my wife was the 'prize,' so to speak.

instead, i considered myself the prize to be won, and that forced me to evaluate myself as honestly as possible. did i want my wife to win the prize as is or did the prize need to be something worth having? and then, beyond that, would i be the prize that someone else would want as is or would i have to be something better?

in both cases, i decided the latter.

i'm not going to tell you that i had a perfect plan A and don't mean to suggest that i did ... i was far from perfect ... not even in the same area code. and i'm not naive to think that all marriages can or should be saved ... they can't.

in the end, though, you have choices just like i did (and do). you can choose to react to the flailing of an irrational spouse .. which is both exhausting and fruitless. you can choose to feel better when everything around you makes that idea seemingly impossible. you can choose to give away your power by letting your wife violate your boundaries. you can choose to be the man she's aching for you to be. these are just a few of the choices you have -- look for others and decide.

Hey Whippit...and te rest of you. Merry Christmas.

Here it is, 7:20 pm on Christmas Day and I'm sitting here in my office, surfing the net. Howw pathetic is this? I had my kids all day yesterday and until 4:30 pm today. By about 5:00 pm I just couldn't sit at home any longer so here I am.

Whippit, you have some very good points you make... and I agree whole heartedly. Also, not only have I talked extensively with Cerri, I've actually met her in person... wonderful lady. You are correct, she has some of the best advice out there. The problem I have is that my W (note I said W and not WW... I think you may be on to somethin gthere... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) doesn't seem to give a wit about me or my feelings. This A goes on right in front of my face, she doesn't even try to hide it. She files for D a week and a half before Christmas. She is bitter and rotten everytime I see her. I honestly think she hates me. And I can no longer see any circumstances where she would come back to me. That isn't going to stop me from trying... or continuing my lousy plan B... butit seems hopeless.

I both find myself hating her guts... despising the sound of her voice, her arms around my kids, the very sight of her... and loving her more than life itself. I feel terribly conflicted. The clock is ticking on the divorce... so I guess we are coming to an end sooner or later... I just feel so helpless.

Also, she has me increadibly confussed. While giving me all the signs and signals tha she hates my guts, she calls all the time (I don't talk to her much at all), she actually had the kids get me something for Xmas... she made a very nice card. I can't figure her out. I try to just ignore it all and move on... but with the kids and all, I can't seem to help knowing what's going on with her and running into her every now and then.

Rambling post... sorry guys...just hurt and confussed on Christmas.

I'll second the Merry Christmas! ..

I'll also second the confusion .. my wife bought me a toaster ( from my children of course ) ..LOL what type of message is that sending? Anyways .. I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!

Hey fella, maybe she subconsciously wants to have breakfast with ya? (Like in previous happier days when you were together!)

Did you get a chance to read the message about 'not giving up hope' by Lostva?

It would be an encouraging message for you to read, my friend.

Also read the message on down by Star*fish titled 'Risk being happy without him.
I re-posted it, so it would be
under 'Blessed TIME')
Love, Julie Jo

<small>[ December 25, 2003, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

Lost and Confused & Want My Wife Back???,

Please go read the thread regarding "Lostva's Success Story". You'll see uncanny similarities in that her husband also treated her as tho he hated her, loathed her etc.

It may help you understand a bit more to the dynamics of how the affair affects the WS's interaction with the BS.

Best,
Jo

Let me take a moment to cry in my own soup before I get to more positive thoughts...

HAH! I was awake at 4am, showered and dressed by 4:30, and alone in our home until I had to pick up the kids at 10am. What did I do with my time? Look down the list, I was here, off and on, for almost all of it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You're wife got you a toaster? That seems odd, unless you really love toasted items. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> For Christmas, my wife was thoughtful enough to get me, umm, well, let's see here. The kids were at their other daddy's last night and this morning, so she was pretty much alone on Christmas Eve, but I never heard from her, not that I expected to. I picked the kids up today at about 10am, went over to my parents until about 3pm, then to my MIL's to drop them off, along with the gift and card I got my wife. In return I got a thank you, talk to you later, see ya, and buh-bye. Total time spent with my wife on Christmas, 90 seconds. I'd rather have a toaster. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Ok, but on a positive note, the "talk to you later" part was her saying she'll call me at work tomorrow once she knows for sure if she'll have to put in OT at work this weekend, so that we can work out a meeting to have the first relationship talk of any kind in the past month.

So, at least I've got a chance to listen to her, hear what she's saying, how she's feeling, and what where she may be coming from right now.

All things considered, I think I'm doing a pretty good Plan A, what with our seperation and all. But I'm growing weak and weary, and my negative spiteful thoughts are continuing to increase.

If and when we talk this weekend, I see Plan B coming on. Hopefully, I've done a good enough Plan A to lead nicely into Plan B.

I'm keeping all thoughts of the big D on hold for now. But I will take action quickly and decisively if I see too many, or too dramatic of indications of her destroying our finances.

Oh, and Merry Christmas! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Well...here's my Merry Christmas even though I know it's a day late.

Some of you received gifts from you wives! I think that is impressive! There's hope, for WMWB and L&C. I really think so for WMWB, I've been saying that for some time. I think she's REALLY confused about something, don't know what, but in time I think she will be back.

My wife didn't get me a thing for Xmas. She came over early Xmas morning with a bunch of gifts for the children. She was polite to me though. Said she didn't have enough money to get me anything <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> but said asked would it be okay for her to get me something for my birthday (its two weeks away). I think she might have done that because she didn't expect me to get her some gifts. She did prepare me a plate of food like she used to and we went through our photo album while she was here. I KNOW that brought back some good memories. She gave me a tight hug at the end of the night before she left. All in all...I'm tired. I'm tired of trying and I am tired of waiting, wondering if and when the "fog" will lift. I love my children and I will do all that I can to make sure their lives are full and prosperous and protected. Other than that, I give up. The plan b will continue, but that's because I am really fed up, so I don't know if it's that much of a plan. I just don't have anything to say and I really don't want to hear anything that she might have to say (even though she usually does not have anything to say to me).

Well...good luck, Guys. Hang in there and I wish you the best in 2004.

No solon I recieved a gift from my children .. and that was pushed on her by her family.. anyways I really didn't expect anything .. although my children made it a point to tell me that my wife got om a present .. anyways how did everyones weekend go? Hey Wmwb how about them vikings and packers huh? LOL .. just kidding .. So what are everyones plans for New year?

so have you guys given any thought to the questions i've asked?

What were the questions again??

read this post

and

this post

<small>[ December 29, 2003, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

whippit: *cough cough*

Umm, those two are these last two posts on page 9. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

How about these two?

Post #116

and

Post #122

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And in response...

Since you've asked me some of those directly, I think I kind of answered them over there.

One that sticks out though, is essentially whether or not I've tried to become, or sow that I can become, a husband that she might want to be with.

Answer: For the month (I know, that's not very long) between the first and last D-Days, I'd say that, yes, I did a GREAT job. However, when I once again blew up on the last D-Day, and she decided then to move out?

Well, since that exchange, I'm sure that I didn't made things worse, because I hadn't said anything for a month except showing interest and concern regarding the kids and Christmas. But I doubt that I made things much better either, since I hardly had anything to do with her, making it easier on her to explore the possibilities outside of our marriage. Based on how she expressed herself this past weekend, compared to what she said when she moved out, I'd say things got worse just by my lack of being a part of her life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Uncomfortably Numb:
Umm, those two are these last two posts on page 9. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">hmmm. copied the links directly from my 'recent posts' list. oh well. my bad.

Whippit, I am in a Plan B of sorts. Not a planned plan b, but rather I'm just sick of the whole mess so I am walking away from it. We didn't talk much anyway so there really is not a need to talk now and not talking to her will not be a problem. I am just exhausted and am giving up.

Xmas was pleasant, we spoke, we looked through and added photos to the photo album (she tried to leave out our wedding pics, but I told her to put them in there). I am just done. I really believe that it is over. She may come through later on in life. She may come to realize that she made a mistake by having an affair and leaving her husband and children, but then again, she may not. I need to go on with my life. And that is what I have decided to do. I will not file for divorce...yet. I have the children when I want, so there is no need to push for custody. She is responsible for paying their tuition and she has not defaulted on that yet. And I do not have any plans on getting remarried so there is no need for me to file. BUT, if and when any of these things change, then I will.

I have been working on myself all of 2003 and will continue to work on myself. But this mess...I'm done with it.

Hey guys, I haven't posted in a while so I thought an update was due. In a nutshell, it is over. I have lost my fight, I told her that I was not contesting the divorce and she said "thank you". I couldn't believe it but it made me feel better about giving up the fight. I had my attorney draft the response papers and I have to go and review and sign them this afternoon. This is moving forward wether I want it to or not, but I have found peace with it.

Good luck to all of you who have the strength to continue the fight. I don't know how many more times I will be posting, so this is no formal good bye. Keep up the fight and I wish you all better luck.