I am terrible about snooping and spying....and some of the things I have discovered have just about torn me apart...but I just can't seem to stop myself...
My LB is sooooo empty now it may be overdrawn....I think he is still lying to me....and I have found out things that confirm that even at times when he said he was telling the truth he was actually still lying to me...

I just don't know how to feel... I am having a seriously bad day <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Anyone have any advice or wisdom...I think I am kidding myself that he will ever leave her and really come back to us...he has been seeing her for 5 years I come to find out...they have been making home movies...and he tried to get her pregnant too...even though she was still living with her husband...I am just at a loss....he is not the person I thought he was at all...

I am so dreadfully sad to hear that you are having to go through this awful experience <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Five years of infidelity is a long time ... Pooooosssssible to see a happy ending here, but your WS would have to do a LOT of changing. Only you can decide whether he is capable of changing.

If your lovebank is nearly closed, I think it might be time for you to start to work on you. I don't mean changing yourself in order to win your husband back from the clutches of OW ... I mean becoming a better YOU for YOURSELF and for your KIDS.

Have you read Surviving An Affair? Do you know all about Plan A and Plan B? If not, then find out what these are. It sounds to me as if you are in need of some boundaries to preserve yourself.

Don't beat up on yourself for snooping. You will need to be able to make some decisions regarding your marriage, and the future of your family, and I believe that what you have found out is VITAL information upon which to base these decisions.

My best wishes go with you. Take care.

Claire

Claire...thank you for your reply....I am just at a loss...I found out that he is still lying to me and that hurts the worst. I am starting to think that he is hanging around for the kids only...they are 5, 8 and 9...he is so good to them....if only he would put a quarter of the energy into our relationship that he puts into the kids...we could make it. I am just not sure he is capable of it... We are in couseling...but I even think he has been lying to them. I don't know if he knows how to tell the truth anymore.
I think he is a big cake eater...

I know I need to work on myself...I have made some changes for myself lately...I cut back my hours at work and have tried my hardest to do some things for myself...but I am the giver and he is the taker...

I have been trying very hard to stay in plan A...and doing pretty well because I have blown up with friends instead of at him most of the time. I have some pretty good sounding boards...but they are getting tired of hearing it and want me to get rid of him...It makes it hard to think sometimes.

[ I don't know if he knows how to tell the truth anymore.
He probably doesn't know which way is up, let alone what the truth is. For goodness sake, this man was planning to have an illegitimate child with a married woman!!

I remember what it was like when I found out that my WH was STILL lying to me, after having told me that he was being honest, and that he wasn't seeing her etc .... It totally ripped my heart out.

That's when I started seriously snooping. Then I found out the real extent of the situation. Again, it hurt too much!! But I feel that it was necessary to have to go through all that to find out what I was really dealing with. You can't make good decisions unless you know all of the relevant information, and you certainly can't rely on WSs to tell you the truth now can you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


I think he is a big cake eater...
Yep. And I would bet that you finding out the truth is a HUGE threat to his cosy situation of playing the family man, and also having a bit on the side. So hold the truth close to you. Consider it to be intell; he doesn't need to know that you know everything. Use it to decide what is best for you and your marriage and your family. Disclose it when you have to, but not before.

I just don't know what to tell the kids, that will be the hardest part...how do you explain to them that their Dad is a scumbag....well I guess for starters I can't call him that LOL. I was thinking about starting to tell them that things are not good between us...that Dad did things that hurt my feelings. (?) or something to that effect. They know what that means...we talk about feelings and how to treat each other all the time.
It is just amazing to me that it has come to this...

I think you are right about the info...in fact I am going to hold on to it for myself...it hurts but it puts things in perspective for me too.
It is coming out to more and more people what happened to us...and I don't think that his family will be quite as supportive of him as mine is being of me.

I often post and then think of other things I should have said... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Good on you for giving Plan A a good go. I lasted for 6 weeks in Plan A (although, I did 6 weeks of what amounted to a Plan A before I found out about MBrs). It was when I found out about his continual deceit that I felt I had to move to Plan B - it just killed me to know that whenever he opened his mouth he was lying to me. I wish I had stayed just a bit longer in Plan A. Do Plan A as long as you can; but start thinking about Plan B. I think that moving to Plan B has to be done carefully, talk it over with your counsellor (alone) if you can.

Keep making changes in your own life. Try new things. In the last 10 months, I have run a 1/2 marathon, taken up squash, gone caving, had a radical new haircut, had a birthday party, gone tramping solo for 5 days ... I know that this will be hard to do with a family, but there will be ways you can develop yourself. Doing new things increases your confidence and in my case, helped me to be more objective about what the marriage was really like.

This is an awful event to have to go through, but also a great opportunity to grow as a person.

Sometimes I really just want to throw his things in the yard......do you recall the rubbermaid commercial where the two wives see their husbands on the TV at a game when they are supposed to be somewhere else??? and one wife throws all her husbands things out in the yard like they are and the other has everything neatly packed in rubbermaid containers.....It would definately be without the rubbermaid in our house LOL.

She leaves the office Friday for a new job....I am hoping that I can get a real start then...but I know they are sneaky. Should I ask him to give me his email passwords and voice mail codes??? I have seen that mentioned here but just don;t know how to go about asking for that kind of access...and then who is to know if they just use a different account.

..and I don't think that his family will be quite as supportive of him as mine is being of me.

Whatever you do, count on your own family for support. I am not particularly close to my parents, but they really did come through for me. Do not expect any support in the slightest from WS's family. They will have heard his version of events. And blood is thicker than water.

There are 3 vicars (priests) in my WS's family - they are very religious, and this was always something that my WS held up as being an important thing. One of his uncles even did our wedding ceremony. This part of the family condemned his actions WHEN they found out the truth, 2 months after we separated. My mother in law, having been fed WS's version of events, began to e-mail OW and speak with her on the phone. She ignored me totally.

Mother in law continues to maintain that her son is perfect (I wish I was kidding here!!). Father in law disapproves, but mommy is the stronger personality.

Keep things civil with the inlaws, but DON'T rely on them.

We are out of sync, and it is probably me who got out of synch <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

She leaves the office Friday for a new job....I am hoping that I can get a real start then...but I know they are sneaky. Should I ask him to give me his email passwords and voice mail codes??? I have seen that mentioned here but just don;t know how to go about asking for that kind of access...and then who is to know if they just use a different account.

If he is not willing to give up OW yet and go to NC, then even if you did get his email passwords etc... they would just find another way of sneaking about.

They will probably even think they are clever for getting away with more secret liaisons. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You would not want to be given passwords etc and then discover you had been deceived yet again.

Since he has not decided to end the affair (?) you must assume that it is still going on.

He tells me it is over...but in the same sentence will say something like even if I tell you it is over how can you believe me when I have lied to you over and over so long. How do I ask for a NC letter...I was thinking about telling him that he needs to give her one when she leaves the office this week. It has been hard to get no contact with them working together...I just don't know what to say to him sometimes...and even if he does agree to send the letter...they can still lie and sneak...so what about that?

IF he has decided to end it, you DEFINITELY need a No-Contact letter, written together by BOTH of you.

With WSs, don't believe what you hear, and only believe half of what you see. If he is not prepared to put it in writing in a way that is acceptable to you, then I don't believe that he has seriously ended it.

Have you read "Surviving an Affair"? The no contact letter is a CRUCIAL part of turning the corner to end the affair and start recovery.

This is about where my expertise ends, as I am in Plan B,(moving at snail speed to Plan D). Other people who are much more knowledgable than me need to give you advice on No Contact letters/conditions.

Why don't you start a new post, about how to end the affair with a no contact letter? Then you will get experts who have been there before. And recovered. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks so much for all your help and just for "listening" I will start myself a new thread...I am just so winpy about asking for what I want...I need to get stronger in that department. I have spent so many years trying to do for everyone but myself it is a hard habit to break...

I am just so winpy about asking for what I want...I need to get stronger in that department. I have spent so many years trying to do for everyone but myself it is a hard habit to break..

You will be surprised at how much strength you have, and you will be surprised at how loud your voice is, once you really start to use it.

I will always see this last year as the year I finally found my voice.

Take care,

Claire

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am starting to think that he is hanging around for the kids only...they are 5, 8 and 9...he is so good to them....
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hate to say this... but it seems to me that no matter how well he appears to be treating your children... if he lies that often, one day he will lie to them, and they'll find out. And they'll hate him for it. Either that or they'll see you tolerating his actions and assume that its OK to be dishonest with other people, because Daddy does it. I'll never forget when I was a teenager, I was a nanny for a couple with 2 young children for about 3 years. The husband was having an A with his secretary, and the kids knew. But they didn't want to hurt their mommy by saying anything. They had to grow up so young, and deal with emotions at such an early age that they just shouldn't have had to deal with. He looked like a loving father from the outside. But the damage that he did to those children by lying to his wife and lying to them was irrepairable. I remember the little girl asking me one day "Is lying wrong for everyone or just for girls?"... how do you answer that?

stillholding, I would assert that its not snooping that has drained your love bank, but adultery. Its best you know what is going on so you can make an informed decision. You can't rebuild your life if you don't know what is going on in your life.

I don't know how long you have been in Plan A, but if contact doesn't end after a few months of Plan A, it is time for Plan B. Plan A can back fire if you do it too long because the BS will fall out of love, as you are doing. But don't blame snooping, blame the adultery.

Stillholdingon -
Sorry it has come to this. You are down, but not out. You do have choices. It would be good to stay in Plan A a little longer, and work on yourself. One good book that may help you is called "The State of Affairs" by Todd Mulliken. John39 on this site recommended it and I got it. One chapter particularly was helpful to me - it is called "The Double Life Man". It tells about men that have a loving wife, nice family, etc., but also have an affair, usually because of emotional problems with intimacy from childhood. You need to make some changes in yourself including setting some boundaries in a loving manner, setting some goals for family, being honest with your WS about your feelings. Right now I would tell WS that you feel like continued contact with OW is hurting your marriage and he needs to write NC letter to OW. It can be very short: Dear OW, I have decided to stay with my wife and work on my marriage. Do not contact me for any reason. The End. Then you can monitor the situation by going to phonebust.com and getting a report on his cell phone calls for $110. But you might not have to go that far, you will know shortly whether he is still having contact. My H refused to write NC letter, and said he couldn't hurt OW that way. He kept going to motels with her to tell her he was going to have NC. So you will find out a lot when you ask him to write letter. In the meantime think about you, your children, and your future. While the odds are in your favor that he will stay with marriage, you need to prepare for whatever happens.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stillholdingon:
<strong> I just don't know what to say to him sometimes...and even if he does agree to send the letter...they can still lie and sneak...so what about that? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can't make him quit lying and sneaking. A no contact letter won't acheive that and it sounds like he has no intention of being truthful with you at all. He doesn't even pretend to convince you of his honesty anymore.

How long have you been in Plan A?

I think you are right...he doesn't show any intention of giving her up...he says he has but he continues to lie about contaact. I have been using the excuse of her still working so close to him but it is just that..and excuse. I have been in plan A since about 2 weeks after I found out. So that is about a month and a half... I have slipped a few times on the LB...but usually it is all over the contact issue....and his continued lying about it.

You guys always make me feel better about myself... thanks!