WW called and asked me some stuff about a company she used to work for. This company went through several hands before it went bankrupt. Well, she didn't get a couple of paychecks in that period and she was recently contacted by a lawyer for that company. She received some back pay plus extra. Well, one of the owners of that same company has a lawsuit out and they want her to pay the money back. Well, its already spent and she doesn't know what to do. Add to this that her mother has been taking care of an elderly lady and in return she got free rent in a small apartment. Well, this lady recently died and now MIL has to move and actually get a job. WW is stressed over that also. To top it off, WW says she wants to possibly come home but feels guilty about leaving OM without transportation. OM lost his truck in his divorce settlement. She wants to buy him a cheap car before she comes home...

Well, what does all this have to do with me? I love this woman and I want her to come home no matter what. She may be wanting to come home for the wrong reasons, but I just want her to come home and for us to work through this... I may be setting myself up for a big fall again.......

Hi lost,

Well as harsh as it may sound,I wouldn't let her come home.It would be for the wrong reasons and this it the type of life crisis that a husband and wife are supposed to support eachother through.She chose to be with OM so let HIM deal with the stress of that.

It doesn't have anything to do with you IMHO. She made her bed,now she has to lie in it right? I know it's probably tempting to "rescue" her but that still doen't erase the decision she made,to be with OM.

DON'T take her back under *these circumstances.No matter what is not the best agreement either.It has to be for the right reasons not because things are getting tough right now.Don't be her fallback plan.

Hang in there.

O

LWH,
you're right! you're setting yourself up for a big fall. sure you want her home...BUT not for the wrong reasons and certainly not at any cost.

having said that owever, one would have to believe that if she would just agree to follow some basic ground rules, maybe the wrong reasons would turn into the right ones...eventually...but not if you take her back with out first esablishing how things need to be.

first of all, if it were me i would be totaly up front about your reservations. i would explain that although you realize that at the moment her reasons for returning might not be the ones you would prefer, you would still be willing to give it a try if she would...but that it would mean her working on the relationship with you 100%.

that is, NO CONTACT with the OM for any reason...ever again. joint marriage counciling, totall honesty on both your parts on every issue, past, presant and future. a willingness to date together...agreeing to spent the required time alone with each other each week for that purpose...come on you know the drill.

i think being totally honest with her about your expectations would relieve her of her current reservations because all she's being asked to do is try.

look, taking her back unconditionally or with some caveat, gains you nothing. but if she is willing to work with you then you may have a shot at getting this thing straitened out.

by the way...the OM's transportation problems are his not hers and certainly not yours. screw him and his problems! to give her money to buy him anything would make you the schmuck she tried so hard to show you that you were...so as one famous lady once said..."just say no!"

coach

Hi Lost,

I understand your feelings of compassion for your WW and desire to have her home. I'm also hopingg my WW will return or look my way.


BUT - I agree that this isn't the right set of reasons for your WW to come home. It sounds like she wants to come home to save her own [censored] and not because of the marriage.

Stay strong, be compassionate don't give her and extra money or let her come home.

In the end do what's best for you as I'm not in your shoes. Good Luck

Thanks for the inputs. I have had a little more time to think about this. I still feel letting her come home is the correct decision. I will not however help her buy OM a vehicle. One of my first thoughts was to sell him my old car which I only use as a backup now, but then I thought there ain't no way in he!! I'm going to help this guy out! He won't even help himself. I think he is using the no transportation issue to keep WW from leaving him. What a piece of work this guy is!

Anyway, besides the conditions in my original plan B letter, here is a list of things I gave her that she would have to do for her to come back. I had given her this list about a month ago when we went to a counseling session together. I gave the counselor the same list so there would be no confusion of what is expected...

1. Total separation/no contact with OM
2. Letter ending the relationship
- Letter should say something to the effect of:
"I care about my husband and family and have decided to completely end this relationship. I promised them that I will never see or communicate with you ever again. I ask that you do the same. I also ask that you respect my wishes for complete separation and no further contact."
- Letter should not express any love or feelings for one another or missing each other.
- I will be able to read letter and ensure it is satisfactory.
- I will send the letter in the mail myself.
3. Trust/no secrets
- Need to account for time, money whereabouts at all times.
- Need to see all email, phone records, mail, etc.
4. Continue marriage counseling and possibly individual counseling.
5. Be totally honest with one another, even if it hurts.
6. Promise to give 100% to recovery.
7. No gifts or letters from OM if/when you come home.

WW doesn't like these conditions but I think she is running out of options. She doesn't like where she is right now, she can't afford to go out on her own, she misses her kids, she is in financial difficulties and add to it the holidays. She knows I will not negotiate the terms of her return. I guess it is really up to her right now. I guess it has always been up to her anyway, but now she is feeling the pressure of the affair and her world is crumbling around her. I hope I can support her and pull her through this if she is willing to let me....

LWH,
may i just make one more little suggestion? what ever you decide to do...please try to go the extra mile and do it with as much sensativity and love as you can. do it with a whole heart...wanting to believe in her and in here inherent goodness. she will come back to you damaged with hurt, dissalusionment and embarassment so please try to go that extra mile with your plan Aing every step of the way.

coach

I guess as a person who's divorced due to my infidelity and has NEVER had her exH want her back, I see it differently.

Take her back if she agrees to those conditions.

Again, it pains me to see another WS who doesn't realize the gift they have in a BS who still wants them. Your WS should spend a few Christmas Eves alone, as I've done, which will happen to her too if she decides not to come home and ends up staying with OM. In time, her R with OM will fizzle out. Then she'll be alone, missing you and the kids.

Give her the chance now, so she doesn't have to get to that level of misery.

God bless,
HP

I guess I never learn. WW is all talk and no action. She says one thing and never follows through. I'm beginning to get tired of getting my hopes up to just be let down again. Why do I let her break my plan B and then just poop on me? I'm feeling very anxious right now and it pisses me off. Are there any WSs out there that can shed some light on what my WW may be thinking, because I don't have a clue!!!!

You know, I'm supposed to be happy during this holiday season and she keeps upsetting me. Why do I let her do this to me? Anyway, just venting, but if anyone has any good words of wisdom, it would be appreciated....

I love this woman and I want her to come home no matter what.

Really? "Love" ....if such love is based on neediness is usually a sour arrangement. It sucks lemons.

Do you realize that without mutual respect .... your love for each other becomes a form of weakness ..... which is neither flattering nor conducive to growth for either one of you.

Needing someone who shows you no respect... an unattractive prospect, don't you think?

Where is your self respect in all of this?

The words "lost without her" are born of your desire to borrow your identity through your attachment to her.

You are a man with or without her.

Be the man that draws her with your strength of character .... if she begins to respect you, she will possibly find you attractive.

Pep

Hi Pep,
Thanks for the "pep" talk, but it didn't make me feel much better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> As for the logon name, I took it when I first started posting and didn't feel it appropriate to change it. Its like your name, would you change that just because you don't feel like it suits you anymore? If so, where's your identity?

Maybe you're right about her not respecting me. Its been a long 5 months though and though I've grown, I still have very strong feelings for my W. Am I wrong for wanting her back? Isn't that what MB is all about. Having your spouse come back and working on the marriage....

Originally posted by lost-without-her:

Thanks for the "pep" talk, but it didn't make me feel much better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I wasn't trying to make you feel "better" ... but trying to get you to respect yourself a little bit for all your efforts. But, I don't think I did a very good job! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As for the logon name, I took it when I first started posting and didn't feel it appropriate to change it. Its like your name, would you change that just because you don't feel like it suits you anymore? If so, where's your identity?

No, keep your name, but think about your state of mind when you selected that particular ID. Does it still suit you?

My name is a Beatles reference .... and I've used the same ID for years, even on another infidelity site.

Maybe you're right about her not respecting me.

One of my favorite books about this subject is "Love Must Be Tough". Dobson places much emphasis on the WS needing to respect the BS before any marriage recovery begins. Have you read it?


I worry you will take your wife back in some instance when she faces some of her consequences, and she returns to you without respect in her heart. This is a cruel thing that WS's sometimes do to vulnerable BS's. Move back in out of desperation and without intentions to recover the marriage relationship.

Its been a long 5 months though and though I've grown, I still have very strong feelings for my W.

Strong feelings! YES .... and you desire her return so very much. This is both good and admirable.

Am I wrong for wanting her back?

No.... feelings are never "right" or "wrong". They just are.

Isn't that what MB is all about. Having your spouse come back and working on the marriage....

And the key is "working on the marriage". Just having her back "no matter what" made me worry about you. YES .... if she is agreeing to do the work .... BY ALL MEANS!!!!!!!!

It is very difficult during recovery. You haven't been there yet.... but I have.

Your feelings get even wilder during recovery .... and you'll need to feel protected in the sense that you aren't being used as a transitional rest stop before she moves on again .....

I apologize for upsetting you.

I do come on like a bulldozer on caffeine sometimes.

I want you to recover..... but I want you to maintain your safety as well.

Pep

Pep,
You didn't upset me. Sometimes I don't come across the way I write either. I know what you're saying is correct. She needs to respect me and many of my friends and coworkers think I'm crazy just for sticking this out. I know if she does decide to come back that there is a lot of work to do. I hope we are both up to that task.

As far as the Dobson book, I haven't read it yet. I just ordered Torn Asunder and hopefully will be reading it soon. I'll have to look up Love Must Be Tough. Maybe it'll be the next book I purchase. Its kinda strange, I've looked at the library for books on marriage, infidelity, and restoring your marriage, but haven't had much luck there. It seems that there should be an abundance of reference material out there but it doesn't seem so. Thanks for the post....

I just ordered Torn Asunder

Torn Asunder is also one of my favorites!

WW talked to my oldest D yesterday. She says she is thinking of coming home. This is the first time she has spoken to my D about this. I don't think WW would mention moving back to my Ds before because she didn't want to get their hopes up. So, why now? Is she serious this time?

Just when my anxiety level was starting to normalize again, I get this news... Though I am very happy about it, I am very nervous. If WW comes home and doesn't work on the marriage like she is supposed to I will be devestated. Many mixed feelings right now, anxiety, hope, fear, happiness, and somewhat relief...

you say in a post above that you've set up conditions for marital recovery ... that's good. you also say your wife doesn't like them.

if she calls again, ask her if she's ready to begin seriously working on your marriage and whether she's ready to agree to the conditions you've set.

if the answer is yes, then you can begin to DISCUSS her return home. if the answer is no, then remind her of your no contact boundary and end the call.

this does two things (among many):

1. you begin rebuilding your self-respect
2. you begin earning her respect (yes, really)

you admit several times that you allow her to upset you. take some responsibility for your own emotions and feelings -- she cannot upset you if don't let her. she cannot poop on you if you don't let her. that's what plan B is -- protecting yourself.

I spoke with WW yesterday. She says she is serious about coming home. We didn't talk a long time because she had to get ready for work. I asked her what her feelings for me were. She said she didn't know. She said she misses me and cares about me but she doesn't know anything other than that. I asked why she wants to come home. She says that she misses being a family. I asked her if she loved the OM. She said she didn't want to lie to me and said that she did. So, I asked why do you want to come home. She says she wants things to be like they used to be. I think she is very confused right now and I am also. I know emotional needs are what drive a person to do what they do. I guess the OM can't provide all the emotional needs that she requires, IE family, financial support, a nice home. I know she wants to go back to school and that her dream is to become a dietician. She can't do this because she can't afford it with the OM. I know our Ds will not spend time with her while she is with OM. So, will I be able to show her the love and affection she received from the OM and will this make her love me like she loves him? I hope I can fill her love bank enough so that she falls back in love with me...

So, is this enough to let her come back home? She has agreed to the conditions and she seems serious this time. I am anxious but I also feel fairly calm. I hope I am ready for this......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lost-without-her:

"She has agreed to the conditions and she seems serious this time. I am anxious but I also feel fairly calm. I hope I am ready for this......"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LWH if you've read Dr Harley's book 'Surviving An Affair' you'll remember that Sue(the WW) was very much like your WW is right now when she agreed to the conditions in Jon's(her BH) Plan B letter. She was not 'in love' with Jon, initially showed no remorse about her affair with Greg(the OM), and even went so far as to blame Jon for her affair. BUT she was serious in implementing NC(no contact) and following The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage. . Slowly BOTH of them started to enjoy each other's company until one day they fell in love with one another. Will this happen in your case? It certainly can IF BOTH of you do your parts to faithfully follow the above conditions.

TooMuchCoffeeMan,
Thanks for the reply. I have read and reread parts of Surviving an Affair over and over again. I keep telling myself if she comes back I can be the man she needs and she will fall back in love with me. It is scary though because of the trust issue and her telling me that she has no feelings for me. I know this will take time and work on both of our parts...

There is good news in all of this. My WW did return yesterday. My oldest D said that her mom told her that the OM will be moving out of state. This will help if it is true. I am very anxious right now and not really sure where to start. I thought I was ready for her to come home and I am very happy she is but I'm not sure of exactly where to start. I think I just want her to get used to being back home and I hope I can just be the support she needs during withdrawal. I am hoping that the holidays will also help her. She will be with her girls again and she really needs them right now...

Best of luck to you! I think this is great news for you!

Just remember a couple of things, which may or may not help.

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rules and boundaries: You set specific conditons for her return, that she has apparently agreed to. Don't backslide on those. They were set up for a very good reason, to give you BOTH the environment where you will feel comfortable and safe, where you can begin to trust again, and where she can begin to rediscover feelings for you.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Compassion: This is the best word I have come up with. You will feel pain. You will feel frustration. You will feel joy and hope and the full range of emotions. But remember that word in all that you do...compassion. Realize that this person whom you love so much is also hurting. Realize that she has EN's, needs which YOU can fill. She may not act like she wants you to, she may not put a lot of effort into fulfilling your EN's, but be compassionate, in all that you do. Not only will it be good for your wife, more importantly, it will be good for you, because you'll know that you have been a loving, supposrtive, caring, empathetic spouse. You'll know that you've been someone that YOU can love and be proud of.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I hope that helps some. It sort of helps me just to type it out, to reinforce those ideas in my own head, if ever I am lucky enough to be given the opportunity that you have.

Best of luck to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"but I'm not sure of exactly where to start."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Start by following The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage. and more specifically The Rule Of Time . It's vitally important for the two of you to have time alone for yourselves without the kids or other people to distract you. Schedule dates with her to places the two of you enjoy without pressuring her for anything. Express to her that you want her to feel safe in confiding any thoughts and feelings without worrying what your reaction will be. The point is to make honesty the foundation of your marriage, and because no affair can come to be in an marital environment of radical honesty. But be very careful and avoid disguising honesty around love busters. Have you read Dr Harley's book 'Love Busters'? I highly recommended it for it is a much more practical, hands on book IMNSHO than SAA or HNHN.